2014 Falls Creek Snow discussions

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currawong

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With the current RFID system, I think the chance of single ride BC tickets is even less. All the ticket checking focus is on the northside. Once someone without a ticket is on the southside they are unlikely to be detected.

Perhaps summit has a bit more promise in that regard because you would have to skate to get to Scotts/Ruined. But it's not that hard to do.
 

Stratus

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With the current RFID system, I think the chance of single ride BC tickets is even less. All the ticket checking focus is on the northside. Once someone without a ticket is on the southside they are unlikely to be detected.

Exactly. Single ride Eagle passes would be too easily abused.
 

Ziggy

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Nothing will happen unless people start asking. http://www.skifalls.com.au/ContactUs

Can't see any point in assuming failure.

From Eagle (which has a scanner) you can hook up with the road in a minute or two. From Summit you have to cover the old Headwater area. But I don't much care which lift is the focus.

Most XCers will be up there with pattern bases so skating won't be needed. Those with packs will mostly be plodding.

Perisher can load a Skitube entitlement on their lift pass so maybe it's just a matter of programming; set the thing to expire half an hour after first use. Last time I was in Thredbo they were mixing the one-ride card for Kosci Express with RFID passes.

(Edited).
 

currawong

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The problem Ziggy is that at falls they only rigorously check tickets at Express, Eagle, Summit and Inter. Once you are up and over the back, you probably won't be checked. That is why the lift co will be opposed to a single ride ticket - too easy to abuse. Even a 30 minute expiry would not help that if the person does not use a front side lift again that day. AIUI other resorts check at a lot more lifts.

My reference to skating was that it would cut down abuse if non-tourers had to skate to get to the sun valley lifts.

I would love to see a single ride BC access ticket, I just think that it is even less likely now. the lift co are not going to increase the cost of ticket checking just to support a few BC tourers
 

Hully

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Not going to happen....think of the numbers:
*very small numbers of people who would want to genuinely and honestly utilise this type of ticket with maybe $20 per person revenue for the Lift Company
*very high numbers of people who want to rip the Lift Company off and ski for as little as possible with about $80 per person lost revenue for the Lift Company

The cost of scanning the other lifts is nowhere near justified by the size of the potential market.
 

Ziggy

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Maybe you're right Curra & Hully.

Yes on Sun Valley side they haven't checked me for the last two seasons and I've been turning up from the BC and looking like it - but it wouldn't be hard to ask to see a snow pass or paper ticket or to wield a hand-held scanner. Episodic checks would be enough for the word to get out. There are enough lifties over there.

I don't think we know the size of the potential market. There may be more than just a few BC tourers esp. now that a whole heap more folk are getting exposed to the slopes on that side by virtue of going out on sleds or doing one of the skidoo tours. I never used to see boarders out there; now they're a regular sight (and they badly need lifting!). More skiers are hunting out side-country slopes.

Falls Ck has a revenue problem; patronage patterns are changing.

Thredbo makes it work; they charge an absurd amount and people pay it.
 

Hully

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Ziggy, I don't think that Thredbo is a good comparison as it does not really have much in the way of village accessed touring/cross country without the need to gain a heap of altitude, therefore an attractive option for people to pay and significant numbers wanting to get lifted access to touring/cross country. Falls Creek has plenty of touring/crosscoutry available to be accessed from the village with no or little need to gain altitude.
 

Ziggy

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Static thinking Hully. How many folk have got tired of Heathy Spur blah blah? How many baby boomers have cut their teeth on overnighters but as they age and their joints start to complain want to do a day tour in different and more easily accessed terrain? The intensification of work means that flush middle and upper income earners are less likely to commit to one or two week stays and want to get the most, and the most variety, out of the time they have. Look at the increased variety of snow sports and activities that've been developed at the resort over the last decade or so. Diversification is the trend.

Of course this kind of ticket is no magic bullet for Falls Ck's cash flow. But it's additional patronage at the margin without a big hit on capital or maintenance costs and has the potential for economic multipliers. Like summer lifting for mountain bike riders. (How is ticketing for that handled?).

For myself I don't really care about the issue. A Hero Pass gets me out there. But I'm becoming more picky too. Charlotte Pass is a pretty compelling offer to someone interested in mixing lift-serviced telemarking and BC day tours. And if I get over the hump of spending that amount of money, NZ and Japan start to look like reasonable propositions and I may become another of those long-stay visitors who's gone elsewhere.
 
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Hully

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Falls Ck has a revenue problem; patronage patterns are changing.
I wouldn't be working on the premise that FCSL has a revenue problem. I understand that when they were sold to Merlin the two ski lift businesses were the profitable entities....and the significant budget cuts and belt tightening under Merlin would have only served to improve on that. Their significant assets would be fully or well depreciated (chairlifts fully, snow making significantly and even a lot of the grooming fleet). Except for the ticketing system there has not really been any significant capital investment for a long time.
 

Hully

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Static thinking Hully. How many folk have got tired of Heathy Spur blah blah? How many baby boomers have cut their teeth on overnighters but as they age and their joints start to complain want to do a day tour in different and more easily accessed terrain? The intensification of work means that flush middle and upper income earners are less likely to commit to one or two week stays and want to get the most, and the most variety, out of the time they have. Look at the increased variety of snow sports and activities that've been developed at the resort over the last decade or so. Diversification is the trend.

Of course this kind of ticket is no magic bullet for Falls Ck's cash flow. But it's additional patronage at the margin without a big hit on capital or maintenance costs and has the potential for economic multipliers. Like summer lifting for mountain bike riders. (How is ticketing for that handled?).

For myself I don't really care about the issue. A Hero Pass gets me out there. But I'm becoming more picky too. Charlotte Pass is a pretty compelling offer to someone interested in mixing lift-serviced telemarking and BC day tours. And if I get over the hump of spending that amount of money, NZ and Japan start to look like reasonable propositions and I may become another of those long-stay visitors who's gone elsewhere.

I understand and appreciate where you are coming from Ziggy, however, the reality is that if FCSL attracted one additional family of four for a week buying lift tickets, equipment hire, ski lessons and snow club for the kids they would probably return a higher revenue yield than the season potential market for single ride tickets for back country tourers.
 

Ziggy

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Sure. But doesn't the management plan material identify the decline in long stay visits as a threat?

.....

Do we know what the rationale was for dropping XC trail fees? And for grooming the trails?
 

Hully

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I think that the decline in long stay visits is having the greatest impact on accommodation businesses (which make up the greatest numbers in regards to RMB 'stakeholders') as their changeover costs are pretty much fixed regardless of the length of stay and they have to work harder to fill beds. For FCSL they are more interested in total skier days, how long they stay for doesn't really matter. 'Yield' may be a little lower as day visitors are probably less inclined to invest in lessons but I think the move from 7 to 5 days and 5 to 3 days has less impact on this.

in regards to dropping Trail Fees....don't get me started on this one.
 

Moondog55

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Hully I'd like to know what you think. I've only ever paid that trail fee once and I know I never got what I considered my monies worth. I'm with Ziggy on this, a single ride ticket to access the PV area is what I have been asking for for over 20 years, not being allowed to wear or carry skis up the FCExpress lift means a loss of BC touring revenue and as a BC skier and tourer I see no real difference between skis and snowshoes in this regard.
 

currawong

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Personally I think it was a great decision to drop trail fees, but I understand that it is very unpopular with many people who as an unfair subsidy.

Collecting trail fees was expensive and enforcement was problematic, especially without increasing costs. Getting rid of trail fees meant lower costs and potentially increased entry revenue as more people come up for xc.

It also means more opportunities for downhillers to give xc a go and enjoy another dimension of skiing falls creek. I've made more use of xc trails since fees were abolished.
 

Ziggy

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[QUOTE="Moondog55, post: 2393395, member: 64541" , not being allowed to wear or carry skis up the FCExpress lift means a loss of BC touring revenue and as a BC skier and tourer I see no real difference between skis and snowshoes in this regard.[/QUOTE]

?? I've never been stopped. Years ago at some resorts there were inconsistent efforts to enforce a leash rule.
 

hongomania

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Will be up on the hill in half an hour if anyone wants to ride in bounds or bc for the arvo hit me up with a PM
 

currawong

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From today's lift co promo email, in relation to the BFF deal where you can bring a first-timer for free

Give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day. Teach a man to ski or snowboard and you’ll have someone to share good times and petrol and accommodation costs with for a lifetime.
 
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Moondog55

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Ziggy I thought you used a seasons pass. The no CC skis rule on sightseeing tickets was enforced on those fellers who stayed with me prior to your first visit
 

Ziggy

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OK, I get you.

What can you tell us about the sightseeing ticket?

Warning to those travelling: the Hume on the Vic side is being heavily policed for speeding and this morning there was a speed camera on the Snow Rd at Markwood.
 
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hongomania

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@mick chopps if you're thinking of heading to mackay/Rocky knolls you might as well ski off the back of the summit first and then skin up to ruined castle. Had a look in there today didn't ski as I spent the day in the resort but looked like some wind blown.

watchbed creek could be worth a look. I like it out there can get some nice long runs in.

I'll be out somewhere tomorrow haven't decided yet.
 

Amelia1810

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Personal gripe of the Falls/Nikon photo comp.. Would've been nice to see snowy Australian photos winning or as criteria. This week is a photo from overseas (no complaints to the photographer) but they could be advertising themselves just by choosing a Falls photo lol
 
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