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Racing 2015/16 FIS Alpine World Cup

Discussion in 'Events & FIS' started by Heinz, Oct 21, 2015.

  1. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    And also in low snow years there isn't enough to fill in all the bumps so they are more pronounced.
     
  2. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    The course would have been fine during training runs prior to race day. The soft snow on top would have made a big difference
     
  3. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Although Florian Scheiber and Max Franz had season ending knee injuries in training on the Streif that week - not sure where exactly though.
     
  4. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Im hoping that the W Cup does not cop too much media flack over unfortunate events this season. We need to remember that it is a dangerous volatile sport that has that nature of being on the very edge of human possibility.
     
  5. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Matt Graham 5th in WC Moguls at Calgary

    Bumping ...
     
    #355 dawooduck, Feb 1, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
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  6. sly_karma

    sly_karma Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Even with the snowmaking that is an essential part of modern course preparation, thin natural snow conditions means the terrain is 'sharper'; ie, harder compressions, rougher traverses, more air off terrain jumps. Natural snow fills in these slope variations and makes the course smoother and the features less extreme. The course prep is also more extreme, more water needed to freeze the top few cm and ensure that there is no breakthrough in the thin cover. From the little I've seen, Europe appears to be having a pretty lean snow year so far, so the speed tracks are rougher and less forgiving than ever.

    Sometimes in a really tough season there might be a spot or two on the course where there's not even enough snow for the course setter to place a gate, that can force a slight but potentially significant change to the overall line of the course. You'd think WC courses would have immaculate and plentiful snowmaking available - and generally they do - but it often comes with restrictions on water use, resorts may not be able to make as much as they'd like (or sometimes adverse weather prevents full production of snow). And there are always places where it's hard to retain snow once made, convexities and sidehill turns are bad for that. Again, I don't know the details of this event, but alpine racing is an open environment sport and changing conditions are part of the landscape. Come to think of it, is there any other sport with such a multiplicity of variables in its field of play?
     
  7. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    In a number of races this season been hearing the Austrian commentators referring to the "Löcher" (holes) in the courses, which if not causing crashes have upset lines and resulted in time losses. They get temporarily filled in but are not the same as the rest and opens up again.
     
  8. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Would that be due to the mix of real and man made snow ?
     
  9. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Probably. Though more so trying to patch anything on the day will never be the same as having it properly prepared beforehand.

    Another issue - I noted that there were complaints in the Garmisch race that the blue colour was not dark enough to see in the poor light so many had difficulty in judging their lines. This was even after they resprayed sections after one of the delays.
     
  10. sly_karma

    sly_karma Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    In nth american terminology, a 'hole' means that the hard icy surface of the course has been penetrated by ski pressure and the sugary snow below is now exposed. Typically holes occur where there is a combination of less than perfect snow prep and enormous ski pressure exerted by the racers. Water prepped courses are typical at WC level but it's tedious manual work and sometimes a bit is missed or underdone, even a half metre by half metre slightly softer spot could fail if it ends up right on the race line. Obviously that sudden change of surface hardness is dangerous for athletes, so there will be a course hold whilst repairs are effected. Typically that means levelling it up with new snow, packing it if possible, then using a gas torch to melt/freeze the surface quickly to an icy shell. There are other methods depending on the snow and air temperatures. Almost always the result is a layer of ice maybe 1-2 cm thick that probably won't hold up for long but might be enough to finish a race.

    The commentators are right, the holes create an unwelcome dangerous compression. Coaches positioned on the course usually see them appearing and give direction via radio to their athletes at the start. If the athlete chooses a different line to avoid a developing hole then it is likely a slower one - the hole is there because of repeated ski impact on the one spot. You wouldn't have everyone on that spot if it was the slow line. So, course prep is key. We see these incredibly icy tracks and shudder, but it's what is needed to stand up to the intense damage wrought by repeated passage of the world's best skiers. DH racers are usually big burly guys, say 90 kg, and they routinely experience lateral forces in turns of 3.0-3.5 G. That's over 300 kg applied to a 2 m long razor, plus there's impact energy when they're landing a jump or the ski is chattering in ruts. No wonder there's damage to the track!.
     
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  11. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Kitzbuhel course prep technicians are renowned for being pedantic at producing the best possible surface. There were no complaints of ruts or compression damage. It was the top surface pushed up, forming ribs of loose plus flat light.
     
  12. sly_karma

    sly_karma Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Flat light is the biggest limiting factor for DH and SG events, dye can only do so much.
     
  13. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Matt Graham wins the Moguls in Deer Valley.

    Incredible effort especially considering his recent comeback from injury.
     
  14. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    40 years ago today.
     
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  15. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Kaiser
     
  16. sly_karma

    sly_karma Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Needs moar backseat linked recoveries. Actually no it doesn't, how did he survive that line?

    The course build looks shockingly bare and rudimentary by today's standards, hay bales instead of B net, almost no A net at all. And good old pine boughs for course marking, dye was 25 years in the future.
     
  17. sly_karma

    sly_karma Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    A follow up on that famous run with some interview footage with the man himself, plus a handful of other ski racing luminaries.

     
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  18. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Men's downhill from South Korea on in a couple of hours (2pm Australian Eastern). First trial of the 2018 Olympics course at Jeongseon. Reports so far are that it is a bit different, not particularly steep or fast, but quite a few jumps and turny.
     
  19. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Special trees thing is a bit weird.
     
  20. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Wow, Kildes left ski just released in the traverse.
     
  21. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Seems to be several tenths can be gained depending on line into the last corner.
     
  22. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Jansrud looks to have it. Norwegians continue to dominate the downhills this season.
     
  23. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    this clip is captioned 'Mikaela is back'
    don't think that means she'll be competing

     
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  24. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Interesting Super G on the Olympic course in Korea. New course so quite a few different lines tried. Guys lost a fair amount of time if they got the line slightly wrong. A few were caught out badly by a gate set soon after one of the jumps. If they didn't set up for the jump quite right, they would get the line wrong for the gate. Jansrud was one of several that skied out. Carlo Janka was the only one that had a really clean run and won by some margin. A very good result though for Marcel with a 7th place and some handy overall points.
     
    #374 Heinz, Feb 7, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016
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  25. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I liked the track, good sign for the Olympics.
     
  26. sly_karma

    sly_karma Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    But how much did it cost?
     
  27. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    It's the Olympics, you're not meant to ask these things
     
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  28. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Men's technical events this weekend in Naeba, Japan. I'll be just arriving in the country, but will be in transit further north.
     
  29. sly_karma

    sly_karma Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    DH is in serious danger of dying out because of the spiralling cost of courses. The rumour going around ski racing circles at present is that the Beijing 2022 committee have requested the IOC allow them to take alpine DH off the medal sports list, citing cost of venue construction. If does DH stay in for 2022, it will be the third consecutive course and venue purpose built for a winter games. There aren't many mountains on this planet suitable for a >750 m vert event, and even fewer organisations willing to create facilities to turn a mountain into an Olympic venue. Vancouver spent $23 million for the 2010 mens DH track and it was at an existing resort with lots of infrastructure already in place, I'd guess the Russians and Koreans spent ten times that... on a facility that delivers four medals (six if you count SG).

    If the Chinese are successful in dropping DH and Combined from the alpine medal events list, it will be a death blow to speed events worldwide. We're already seeing a loss of grass roots events and competitors because the course construction and preparation have become too expensive to support from entry fees and minor local sponsorship. World Cups are well funded at the moment, but the loss of Olympic status would drastically affect sponsor willingness.

    What can be done? Lobby FIS to reduce the vert for WC and Olympic DH (800 m minimum) to 650 m. Doesn't sound like a big change but it brings lots of tracks at existing resorts back into contention so prospective host nations aren't forced to build entire new resorts. And lobby the IOC to stand firm with Beijing. They put in a bid based on holding a DH, they can't be allowed to bait and switch.
     
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  30. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    They have trialled shorter 2 run downhills for the women including once this year. Not sure what the reasoning was but what you are suggesting could be part of it.

    But in meantime definitely make sure Beijing run a full length DH. They are probably more interesting in building parks for their converted gymnasts.
     
  31. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    Winter Olympics without DH is like the summer games without the 100m sprint. It is the blue ribbon event, the reason for being, for many, the only event that matters. No DH = no interest, may as well not hold it.
     
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  32. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    This
     
  33. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

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    If Beijing request that then take the whole show off them. Not like it was a surprise event that was suddenly added. DH has always been part of the winter olympics and always should. Better to get rid of all the subjective scoring events first (figure skating, aerials, etc.) before the classic alpine events.
     
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  34. sly_karma

    sly_karma Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    That's what I think too of course, but money has a way of talking. The IOC is always looking for new 'exciting' events in an effort to remain relevant, so there's always pressure on existing medal events to prove they're worth their place in the games. The cost of staging the games has become so out of control that fewer and fewer cities are willing to bid for them. Removing speed events would significantly lower the price barrier for bidders in non-traditional areas, so it's certainly on the IOC's radar. A disastrous move in my opinion, we should be moving the games back to more traditional markets and shore up olympic support in core areas. European and north american media outlets must be frustrated beyond belief that Beijing got 2022, three winter games in a row that are far away from their markets in every respect imaginable.
     
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  35. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    apparently she's coming back weekend after next at Crans Montana
     
  36. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Felix Neureuther hard at work training for the slalom in Naeba.
    "A perfect day in the office"
     
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  37. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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  38. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  39. sly_karma

    sly_karma Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've had some pretty nice first tracks after cancelled race due to heavy snowfall. By the time the jury makes their call, we're already on the mountain setting up the start, no other choice but to make your way down "as best you can". Sunrise, fresh snow, no one around and won't be for another hour and a half. You only get one run, so make it count. Who cares about no poles?
     
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  40. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    according to fis-ski Mikaela Shiffrin is leading after first run at Crans Montana
    rehab went well, obv
     
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  41. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Marusa Ferk just hit the lead, second run
     
  42. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    but Mikaela does it again
    she's phenomenal
     
  43. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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  44. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    she must have needed the cash
     
  45. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  46. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Nah she's been on SI before.
     
  47. sly_karma

    sly_karma Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Lots of guys got hot and bothered over Anna Kournikova for a while there, but she wasn't the champion that Lindsey is. I like living in a world where the best female skier ever is also willing to do a body paint photoshoot.
     
  48. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    back at the races - Tina Weirather is having a great season
    I wish the Eurosport commentators would stop reminding us of her illustrious parentage
     
  49. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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  50. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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