2018 Snow chain information & rules for NSW & Victoria

Snow chains are designed to allow a vehicle to climb a gradient that’s beyond the grip level of the tyres. State regulations require all vehicles in Victoria, and 2WDs in NSW, to carry wheel chains that can be correctly fitted to your tyres when required. The ‘Owners manual’ of your vehicle will detail what wheel and tyre combinations are approved for the fitting of wheel chains.

Snow chain manufacturers warranty does not cover any snow chain that are used on a vehicle that is fitted with wheels, tyres or a wheel/tyre combination, that are not approved to be fitted snow chains by the vehicle manufacturer. Before installing and using snow chains, you must read & follow your vehicle’s owners manual snow chain fitting information and the snow chain fitting instructions that have been supplied with the chains you have purchased or hired.

The safety of any vehicle, especially the braking performance, is compromised if wheel chains are fitted to wheel and tyre combinations that are not approved for the fitting of wheel chains by the vehicle manufacturer.
refer http://snowtyres.com.au/safety/wheel-chain-compatability/
Wheel chains fitted to summer tyres on the front wheels will increase traction for take off and driving but can not assist with lateral stability. Because of the inadequate grip on the rear tyres the vehicle will oversteer and when braking the ABS system will be activated, further increasing the stopping distance. The problems are always worse when driving down hill than up hill.

Wheel chains fitted to summer tyres on the rear wheels will increase traction for take off and driving but can not assist with steering or lateral stability. Because of inadequate grip on the front tyres the vehicle will not ‘turn in’, it will understeer and when braking the ABS system will be activated, further increasing the stopping distance. Again the problems are always worse when driving down hill than up hill.

There are issues even when diamond pattern snow chain system are used on high performance 2WD or AWD "summer" tyres.
On summer tyres snow chains will grip compacted snow but the tyre can slip or spin on the chain even when they are tensioned to the tyre.
The problem is compounded by the camber of the road, the weight and torque of the vehicle and the amount of tread on the tyre.
The problem is worse when the vehicle has been parked at the resort because of the low ambient temperature makes the tyres harder and therefore has even less grip to the chain.

Wheel chains rely on the tread of the tyre for grip to help prevent the tyre/wheel from spinning inside the chain.
In order for wheel chains to work effectively they must penetrate into the compacted snow surface to penetrate to provide the maximum amount of traction.
Traction may be lost, when the snow and/or ice begins to break up and melts to slush, and wheel spin is experienced. In certain situations the vehicle can slide on the wheel chains.

The requirements for snow chains vary depending on your resort in Australia.
You can use the information below to guide you through these regulations.
Contact the relevant Victorian or NSW alpine area for more details.
Summary of regulations :- https://snowtyres.com.au/safety/australian-regulations/

WINTER 2018 SNOW CHAIN RULES FOR KOSCIUSZKO NATIONAL PARK http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/questions/snow-chains-kosciuszko-national-park
"It is compulsory to carry properly fitting snow chains when driving a two-wheel-drive vehicle between the June and October long weekends on these roads:
• Kosciuszko Road from the park boundary at Thredbo River
• the Alpine Way between Thredbo and Tom Groggin
• the Island Bend/Guthega Road.
http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/drivers/badweather/snowdriving.html
Chains may also be required in certain weather conditions on the Alpine Way between Jindabyne and Thredbo and the Snowy Mountains Highway,
so the Roads and Maritime Services (RMS) recommends carrying chains along these roads during the winter months.
While All Wheel Drive (AWD) and 4 Wheel Drive (4WD) vehicles may not be required to fit chains,
it’s still wise to carry them if you lack experience driving on ice and snow. Please check manufacturer’s handbook.”
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents...vsi-57-driving-in-ice-and-snow-conditions.pdf

WINTER 2018 SNOW CHAIN RULES FOR MT BULLER http://www.mtbuller.com.au/Winter/snow-weather/snow-report/wheel-chain-declaration
"Mt Buller’s wheel chain requirements are decided on a daily basis and are determined by weather forecasts and existing road conditions.
Chain requirements may vary between 2-wheel drive (2WD) and 4-wheel drive (4WD) and All-wheel drive (AWD) vehicles, as each of these types of cars react differently to snow and icy road conditions.
Daily wheel chain requirements are communicated via the local accommodation providers, retails outlets and authorities who are come into contact with people travelling to the Resort.
They also appear on large flashing roadside billboards as you enter and leave Mansfield and on the daily snow report. Contact Resort Management directly on (03) 5777 6077 for the most current requirements.
ALL OVERNIGHT VISITORS MUST CARRY WHEEL CHAINS AT ALL TIMES
If you are staying in the Resort overnight you are required to carry chains at all times as weather conditions may change unexpectedly throughout the evening.”

WINTER 2018 SNOW CHAIN RULES FOR FALLS CREEK https://www.fallscreek.com.au/faq-2/
"Snow chains are a legal requirement for ALL vehicles entering Falls Creek alpine resort.
All vehicles (including 2WD & 4WD) must carry a pair of snow chains even when the roads are clear during the declared snow season.
Random checks from police will be carried out during the season and fines do apply.”

WINTER 2018 SNOW CHAIN RULES FOR MOUNT HOTHAM https://www.mthotham.com.au/discover/explore/getting-here/chains
"To ensure you and other road users can reach the slopes safely, Diamond Pattern Wheel Chains must be carried and fitted where required.
Ladder chains, spider chains and snow socks are not permitted for use in Hotham Alpine Resort.
As it is a mandatory legal requirement, fines are applicable for not carrying and fitting chains as directed in a Victorian Alpine Resort.”
https://www.developmthotham.com.au/publications-plans/images/Chains-Determination-2018.pdf

WINTER 2018 SNOW CHAIN RULES FOR MOUNT BAW BAW https://mountbawbaw.com.au/Alpine-Driving
"Snow chains help to provide extra traction in snowy and icy conditions.
All vehicles are required by law to carry snow chains during the declared snow season regardless of conditions when enterting Mount Baw Baw Alpine Resort.
Ladder chains are prohibited at Mount Baw Baw. Diamond pattern chains are recommended
You will be refused entry to the resort if you do not carry snow chains regardless of whether there is snow or ice.”

WINTER 2018 SNOW CHAIN RULES FOR LAKE MOUNTAIN https://www.lakemountainresort.com.au/winter/the-mountain/mountain-safety/
"On occasion, due to heavy snowfall or predicted heavy snowfall, two-wheel drive vehicles will be required to carry wheel chains.
4WD vehicles (At this time) do not require chains. Please check current road conditions, snow reports & forecasts before you leave.”

WINTER 2018 SNOW CHAIN RULES FOR MOUNT BUFFALO https://www.visitmountbuffalo.com.au/index.php?p=1_92
"The rules for the carrying and use of snow chains at Mount Buffalo national park this winter are detailed below.
Previously visitors were required to carry wheel chains within Mt Buffalo National park during the declared snow season. This traditionally was from the Queens Birthday weekend in June until sometime in September when the larger resorts decided to close.
Given that Mt Buffalo is significantly lower than the larger resorts this often meant that we required chains to be carried up here on the plateau when there was little or no snow on the ground and the road was dry and clear. This may have been appropriate previously, particularly when we had visitors staying on the mountain during winter for extended periods, however this is no longer the case.
We have now, however, moved to a much more flexible system whereby we can remove the requirement to carry chains to Mt Buffalo if the forecast is fine and clear for the next 24hrs and the road is clear and dry.
The basic concept is that during the declared snow season when either snow is forecast for under 1600 metres. The highest point on the roads at Mount Buffalo during winter being over 1550 metres, or when potentially hazardous snow or ice conditions exist on the road, chains will be required, when neither of these conditions exist we can remove the requirement to carry chains.
How does this work?
1. The Chains Must Be Carried sign at the entrance to Mt Buffalo is ultimately the official word on whether chains need to be carried or not.
When this sign is closed, chains will not be required and when it is open chains must be carried. Mt Buffalo Ranger staff will be managing this.
2. Every day at approximately 9am an email update of current snow conditions on Mt Buffalo will be sent to Visitor Information Centers, Ski Hires and other stakeholders.
This report will include whether chains are required to be carried.
3. Every day at approx 4pm the Duty Ranger at Mt Buffalo will assess the forecast weather conditions for the next 24hrs and the state of the road and make a determination as to whether chains will be required for the following day. If there is a change to the current situation you will all receive another email simply informing you of the change.
4.Does this mean it will change every day? No we are expecting the determination to be reasonably consistent given that the Mt Buffalo road does have areas that hold snow and ice for some time creating hazardous conditions. The biggest change will be at the start and end of the season when the snow either has not arrived yet or has left us early.
5. What about AWD and 4WD? There is no differentiation and these rules apply to all vehicles.”
 
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Xplora

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The ‘Owners manual’ of your vehicle will detail what wheel and tyre combinations are approved for the fitting of wheel chains.
Mine don't and not much help from the manufacturer or dealer. One is european and the other a Ford. So if it is not provided then I probably should just use my own good judgement. This sentence should be changed to reflect what I have mentioned.
 

Hully

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..... there is zero reference to winter or summer tyres in Victorian chain regulations.
I am aware that Snowtyres is working behind the scene, and it appears successfully, to change regulations so that chain fitting exemption for 4DW/AWD will only apply to vehicles fitted with approved snow tyres. This will mean that the vast majority of 4WD/AWD will be required to fit chains..... or purchase snowtyres.
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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Winter snow chains and rubber required for all other approaches.

Team Bears suggesting that drivers just use common sense.

Shovel,Chainsaw,Chains,good off road tyers.Diesel with additive to prevent gelling.
Drive as if another vehicle is comming towards you....carefully!

That pedal to the left of the accelerator can be just as lethal.keep off that brake pedal cos you are going to slide and slide and slide!
 

Xplora

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I can understand where Hully is coming from but running road tyres on an SUV or any other vehicle fitted with all wheel or proper 4WD does not really help enough and chains probably should be fitted at times, even when there is no requirement for fitting to these 4WD's (such as when chains are being fitted to 2WD). It is cheaper to buy a set of chains than a set of snow tyres. People will probably just go that way if the regs change. I would go that way but in any case the tyres on both our vehicles are snow rated. Amazed at how far the SUV got up Mt. Wills last year when it was covered in snow from the highway (no chains) but must admit turning around was problematic. Reversed back twice to the highway from Tallangatta ski hut.
 

driz

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I await the day sanity prevails and 2WD with snow tyres are also exempt from chains. The current vic regulations are the only reason I bought a (small, hatch) Subaru!
 
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CarveMan

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..... there is zero reference to winter or summer tyres in Victorian chain regulations.
I am aware that Snowtyres is working behind the scene, and it appears successfully, to change regulations so that chain fitting exemption for 4DW/AWD will only apply to vehicles fitted with approved snow tyres. This will mean that the vast majority of 4WD/AWD will be required to fit chains..... or purchase snowtyres.
Buller Village Permits are now requiring to permit holders to sign a declaration that they have the appropriate tyres, it was always in the regulations but now clearly specified, and a good thing after a few slippery Friday nights last year with high end European SUVs with road tyres playing skittles.
 

Donza

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Buller Village Permits are now requiring to permit holders to sign a declaration that they have the appropriate tyres, it was always in the regulations but now clearly specified, and a good thing after a few slippery Friday nights last year with high end European SUVs with road tyres playing skittles.
It's amazing how a 150k euro SUV can be rendered useless in the snow by its 22inch HP tyres.
 

CarveMan

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It's amazing how a 150k euro SUV can be rendered useless in the snow by its 22inch HP tyres.
When @mx_boarder did his knee on a particularly snowy weekend last year I drove in to one of the carparks so I could drive his 4WD ute home.

The car park had about 40cm new snow in it and there was a beached Q7 on particularly blinged up rims spinning all 4 wheels and getting nowhere, I was in essentially the same car under the skin but with smaller rims than standard and snow tyres and we just cruised past.
 
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Donza

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I get the logic that chains don't work on low profile tyres/big rims. The links struggle to shape over the sidewalls.

Though I'm not sure that winter tyres being compulsory for chains is a thing.
 

FixedGrip

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I was in essentially the same car under the skin but with smaller rims than standard and snow tyres and we just cruised past.

The performance of your tyres under brakes was equally if not more impressive.

Beached Q-Ship was a laff, emptying my tray of snow, not so much.
 
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The performance of your tyres under brakes was equally if not more impressive..

Here is a safe way to determine how much tyre grip is available for any vehicle when driving in challenging winter conditions.
When it is safe to do so, at a safe speed, and, making sure that no one is close behind you,
apply the brakes firmly until the wheels lock up and the ABS is activated.
Keep the brake pedal pressed down until the vehicle stops completely.
This will give you a clear indication of the grip available at that particular point in time.
You can repeat this test to continually monitor grip in different conditions.
This simple test procedure will indicate the grip level of your tyres
 
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Ubiquitous Steve

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Please don't execute above procedure in the Hotham Tunnel ....you will not be popular if you succeed in obstructing their tunnel!:mad:

Amaze the folk ;)in Harrietville with your hard braking practices!
The local dogs will be dumbfounded particularly if they are chasing you at the time!:whistle:
 
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Astro66

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Here is a safe way to determine how much tyre grip is available for any vehicle when driving in challenging winter conditions.
When it is safe to do so, at a safe speed, and, making sure that no one is close behind you,
apply the brakes firmly until the wheels lock up and the ABS is activated.
Keep the brake pedal pressed down until the vehicle stops completely.
This will give you a clear indication of the grip available at that particular point in time.
You can repeat this test to continually monitor grip in different conditions.
This simple test procedure will indicate the grip level of your tyres
I always do this. But never on a downhill section.

If you break traction going downhill, letting go of the brake doesn't mean traction returns. The car can slide rught of the road before traction returns, even if you never touch the brake again.

Quite often the only way to regain traction in this situation, is to throttle on. And in a downhill slide, this goes against all your instincts.
 

scottski

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What about motorbikes?
I want to ride my Ducati 250 single from my house at Crackenback over the alpine way to yackandandah and back .
Do I need snow chains ?
 
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Xplora

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What about motorbikes?
I want to ride my Ducati 250 single from my house at Crackenback over the alpine way to yackandandah and back .
Do I need snow chains ?
You can get chains for motorcycles, it is not a 4wd so you would have to carry them. If there is no specific provision in the Act or regulations then I would suggest that you may in fact be able to do this. I always thought it strange when all the cars had to stop at Harrietville to hire chains in September when there was NO snow and all the bikes just kept going. Motorcycles should also carry chains or be specifically prohibited on these roads during times when cars are required to carry chains.

In NSW the relevant regulation is the National Parks and Wildlife regulation clause 26

26 Use of snow chains in Kosciuszko National Park (1) A person travelling by motor vehicle on any designated snow/ice risk road within Kosciuszko National Park at any time on or after 1 June and before 11 October in any year must carry snow chains suitable for use on the tyres of the motor vehicle. Maximum penalty: 30 penalty units. (2) A person travelling by motor vehicle within Kosciuszko National Park on or after 1 June and before 11 October in any year must use snow chains on the tyres of the motor vehicle when directed to do so by a designated officer or by a notice erected in the park or given to the park user. Maximum penalty: 30 penalty units.

What is interesting about this regulation is the definition of motor vehicle which does not include (or more specifically excludes) a 4wd ( Cl 26 sub cl 3 motor vehicle does not include a four-wheel drive vehicle.) but it does not go further to describe motor vehicle so it may default to the Road Traffic Act definition of motor vehicle of which a motorcycle is included. The only possible problem I can see with the interpretation of the regulation to include motorcycles is clause 26 refers to chains suitable for us on the tyres (being plural) but perhaps you could carry a set of chains for front and back. Now if you cannot fit chains to the Ducati then you may have a problem but otherwise as long as you have a chain that will fit the tyres then go for it if you are so inclined.
 

scottski

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I will make something from chicken wire and keep it rolled up in the tool kit.
NSW parks service couldn’t answer the question.
 

Xplora

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apply the brakes firmly until the wheels lock up and the ABS is activated.
Not all cars have ABS. Do not try this one at home without it. In fact I feel the entire advice, with or without ABS is fraught with danger unless you know what you are doing. That is to say you should be a suitably trained driver before you go doing tests like this on a public street let alone one covered in snow. What is under your tyres in the way of snow changes regularly and this test will prove nothing unless you have to brake at the same place you did your test. It can change even because someone else has driven over it. You would have to test every corner, every slope, every positive or negative camber, every depth of snow, every bit of ice. That is ludicrous and there is no way it can be done safely at any resort or snow road. You would also have to perform the test at the same speed each time and at what speed would you recommend to get the desired result?
 
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currawong

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I am aware that Snowtyres is working behind the scene, and it appears successfully, to change regulations so that chain fitting exemption for 4DW/AWD will only apply to vehicles fitted with approved snow tyres. This will mean that the vast majority of 4WD/AWD will be required to fit chains..... or purchase snowtyres.
I'll be pretty ropable if this occurs.

I am more likely to fit chains to my awd than many people I know. That said, I rarely need to do it. The subie, driven sensibly, handles most conditions on the falls road without chains. Requiring chains at the same time as 2wds would be a travesty of safety regulation.
 

Xplora

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I will make something from chicken wire and keep it rolled up in the tool kit.
NSW parks service couldn’t answer the question.
I don't think that will cut it, they would have to comply with the appropriate standard and be diamond pattern. I found plenty of adds for motorcycle chains online.
 

scottski

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I don't think that will cut it, they would have to comply with the appropriate standard and be diamond pattern. I found plenty of adds for motorcycle chains online.
Really, I can’t find them apart from the German do it yourself site
 

Xplora

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Really, I can’t find them apart from the German do it yourself site
I only had a quick look and you may be right. A DIY snow chain for a bike will not work as it has to meet a standard. So if you can't get them then you can't carry them and therefore you can't ride the road. Perhaps this is why motorcycles do not have to be specifically excluded. I think you could have problems with the chain on the swing arm and maybe the guard if it is close to the tyre.
 
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Ubiquitous Steve

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Not all cars have ABS. Do not try this one at home without it. In fact I feel the entire advice, with or without ABS is fraught with danger unless you know what you are doing. That is to say you should be a suitably trained driver before you go doing tests like this on a public street let alone one covered in snow. What is under your tyres in the way of snow changes regularly and this test will prove nothing unless you have to brake at the same place you did your test. It can change even because someone else has driven over it. You would have to test every corner, every slope, every positive or negative camber, every depth of snow, every bit of ice. That is ludicrous and there is no way it can be done safely at any resort or snow road. You would also have to perform the test at the same speed each time and at what speed would you recommend to get the desired result?
Oh loosen up Xplora....just drop some donuts in the Loch Car Park when not too many folk are around...Suzuki used to do figure of eights on grand :cheers:final day when I got bored skiing the whole season.Steer into a few moderate drifts with the foot down so you get the feel of how much traction is happening!!:party:
 

Hully

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I'll be pretty ropable if this occurs.

I am more likely to fit chains to my awd than many people I know. That said, I rarely need to do it. The subie, driven sensibly, handles most conditions on the falls road without chains. Requiring chains at the same time as 2wds would be a travesty of safety regulation.
I am pretty angry about hearing this too. About to email VicRoads and get a definitive answer. It is appalling that someone with a commercial interest is driving it; the "research" is subjective crap at best; the implications are huge. I'll keep this forum up to date with anything I hear.
Most of all it's time that @snowtyres came clean because he's out there telling people about these changes and it's purely a commercial driven project on his part.
 

Hully

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Not all cars have ABS. Do not try this one at home without it. In fact I feel the entire advice, with or without ABS is fraught with danger unless you know what you are doing. That is to say you should be a suitably trained driver before you go doing tests like this on a public street let alone one covered in snow. What is under your tyres in the way of snow changes regularly and this test will prove nothing unless you have to brake at the same place you did your test. It can change even because someone else has driven over it. You would have to test every corner, every slope, every positive or negative camber, every depth of snow, every bit of ice. That is ludicrous and there is no way it can be done safely at any resort or snow road. You would also have to perform the test at the same speed each time and at what speed would you recommend to get the desired result?
I agree. I drive at a speed and in a manner that my tyres losing grip is an alert not a disaster. I never feel the need to deliberately force my car to lose grip in order to determine the limit that I will drive to.
 
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CarveMan

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Why can't @snowtyres lobby for changes that suit his commercial interests, particularly if the regulations ignore the usefulness of rated snow tires?
Personally, I’d love not being lumped in with the common denominator and forced to fit chains in the Buller Village thanks to my snow tyres, which happened on many Friday nights last year due to high performance SUVs on road tyres skittling each other.
 

Hully

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Personally, I’d love not being lumped in with the common denominator and forced to fit chains in the Buller Village thanks to my snow tyres, which happened on many Friday nights last year due to high performance SUVs on road tyres skittling each other.
I agree. The regulations that I understand are going to be forced upon us are regressive not progressive. Less regulation than current if you have snow tyres I could understand and respect, increased regulation with exception for snow tyres is a different situation.
Note that the OP is about snow tyres to improve the effectiveness of chains.
 
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Astro66

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Not all cars have ABS. Do not try this one at home without it. In fact I feel the entire advice, with or without ABS is fraught with danger unless you know what you are doing. That is to say you should be a suitably trained driver before you go doing tests like this on a public street let alone one covered in snow. What is under your tyres in the way of snow changes regularly and this test will prove nothing unless you have to brake at the same place you did your test. It can change even because someone else has driven over it. You would have to test every corner, every slope, every positive or negative camber, every depth of snow, every bit of ice. That is ludicrous and there is no way it can be done safely at any resort or snow road. You would also have to perform the test at the same speed each time and at what speed would you recommend to get the desired result?
I've pressed my brakes on ice, and there was a absolutely no braking forces generated. I would like to know this before I am in a situation where I need brakes and then discover I have none.

You can use this information to leave a greater gap, so you can slow your car to a stop using engine only, or chose to drive around a vehicle, because you know you won't stop.

Regardless, assumption or ignorance of any braking data, until you require them, leaves you with significantly less time to react correctly when something goes wrong.
 

teckel

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I agree. The regulations that I understand are going to be forced upon us are regressive not progressive. Less regulation than current if you have snow tyres I could understand and respect, increased regulation with exception for snow tyres is a different situation.
Note that the OP is about snow tyres to improve the effectiveness of chains.
This. I know people (who I cannot name for reasons of commercial confidentiality) who know way more than snowtyres ever has about chains, who totally dispute his arguments. Snowtyres is lobbying for no reason other than selling his bloody tyres.
 

Hully

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This. I know people (who I cannot name for reasons of commercial confidentiality) who know way more than snowtyres ever has about chains, who totally dispute his arguments. Snowtyres is lobbying for no reason other than selling his bloody tyres.
This.... the person that passed on his 'bragging' about the new regulations to me is a highly qualified and experienced automotive engineer that shot so many holes in his arguments/evidence.
 

Legs Akimbo

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This. I know people (who I cannot name for reasons of commercial confidentiality) who know way more than snowtyres ever has about chains, who totally dispute his arguments. Snowtyres is lobbying for no reason other than selling his bloody tyres.
I've driven with snow rated tyres. They work. You can stop. You can go round corners. What's bloody about his tyres, and what do chains have to do with it?
 

Donza

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I've driven with snow rated tyres. They work. You can stop. You can go round corners. What's bloody about his tyres, and what do chains have to do with it?
He contends that you need snowtyres fitted to use chains correctly.
As chains slip against normal tyres.
 
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Xplora

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You can use this information to leave a greater gap,
Common sense. You should do that regardless.
so you can slow your car to a stop using engine only, or chose to drive around a vehicle, because you know you won't stop.
If your vehicle is sliding on the road when you apply the brakes then I would assume this is what you meant when you said there was a time you had no brake force. Once a vehicle is sliding in this manner then you also do not have steering.Slowing a vehicle with gears can also lock the wheels and cause you to slide.

It is important for people to understand how their vehicles respond. My point is more about an arbitrary and subjective test which is conducted in another arbitrary and subjective safe place (no doubt within a resort) is not the right advice to give anyone. You do the test in one place and you stop fine so you think you are fine in every condition. It just doesn't work that way. Even snow tyres on sheet ice will have issues if you hit the brakes hard enough. You cannot test for every condition.

People rely heavily on technology in an on their vehicles to get them out of trouble and some people then try to drive beyond their own ability believing the car will save them. Brake force distribution, ABS, traction control - all good things but it still comes down to the nut behind the wheel and changing tyres will not help if you don't change that nut.

Steer into a few moderate drifts with the foot down so you get the feel of how much traction is happening!!
Excellent advice once again, however, those trying this should consider Darwin's theory of natural selection first.
 

teckel

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I've driven with snow rated tyres. They work. You can stop. You can go round corners. What's bloody about his tyres, and what do chains have to do with it?
I'm not contending that winter tyres don't work. What I'm saying is that chains also work on normal tyres and they are quite adequate on roads to resorts in Australia, especially non low profile tyres. We don't live in northern Europe or north America.
 
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Whatever really

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Well kinda.
Chains don't work well on low profile big rimmed wheels very well. .. However that's not a durometer issue.
Or is it incorrect poorly fitted chains don’t work well on low profile tyres.
Also if lobbyists move to fit chains to proper 4x4 will this include ones with snow or all terrain/mud and snow tyres?
I agree with carveman that proper tyres should eliminate chains in all but the worst conditions,
Very rare to see chains being used in Canada/japan and very few crashes in resorts because people drive to the conditions and use correct tyres.
 

Xplora

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I'd like to know the statistics of accidents on resort roads in Australia caused by tyres spinning inside snow chains.
If any such stats exist. I seriously doubt it. Chains need to be adjusted and sometimes it could be two or three adjustments. Even if a chain moves or spins a bit there will be a level of friction with any tyre, if fitted properly, sufficient to provide forward movement. Also any slippage will be less once the torque is reduced in higher gears. How much slippage is too much? The development and testing of snow chains was not done exclusively for them to be fitted on snow tyres. If it can be shown that properly fitted chains on low profile performance tyres do not work adequately then there may be a case to change legislation or stop making chains to fit these vehicles.
 

PG2736

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The issue is not tyres spinning inside chains...the issue is high speed summer tyres on 4wd not providing any grip.

The chains that do not fit over the back of wheels (ie a spider type) are more of the problem than a traditional diamond pattern
 
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Ziggy

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What about motorbikes?
I want to ride my Ducati 250 single from my house at Crackenback over the alpine way to yackandandah and back .
Do I need snow chains ?
From memory FWIW... A m/c can't enter Falls Creek if 2wds are being required to fit chains.
 

Ziggy

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What we do in the 4WD offroad world when traction is expected to be limited is fit tyres with distinct lugs (AT or MT) and when relevant air them down to increase the contact patch.
On sheet ice that's worth very little but in other snow conditions it's worth something.

But there's too much focus on the tool and not the skill of the user.
How many have learned to stop and recover from a slide when it starts? How many even know how to recognise it's happening before it's too late?
 

Xplora

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A m/c can't enter Falls Creek if 2wds are being required to fit chains.
A motorcycle is included in the definition of a vehicle in the Resorts Management Act
'vehicle includes— (a) a motor vehicle; (b) a motor cycle; (c) a bicycle, cart, trailer, caravan or horsedrawn vehicle;'

'55 Use of wheel chains on vehicles
(1) The driver of a vehicle who enters an alpine resort must at all times during the snow season, carry in their vehicle wheel chains suitable to be properly fitted to that vehicle. Penalty: 20 penalty units.'

This means a motorcycle can enter the resort if it carries chains which can be properly fitted. If no such chains exist then it cannot enter unless it is on a day which the board declares chains are not required for any vehicle which it determines does not need to carry it.
'56 Prescribed Board may waive carrying of wheel chains on certain days
(1) A prescribed Board may determine that regulation 55 does not apply to day visitors on a specified day in an alpine resort for which the Board is responsible.'

There is more but you can look it up yourself if you want but essentially the board can declare it suitable for motorcycles on any day having consideration to the conditions. It is on a day to day basis. Otherwise motorcycles have to carry and fit chains as directed.
 

Xplora

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Do a google search for this Road Safety (Vehicles) Regulations 2009 Regulatory Impact Statement
and then document search the words snow chains. Interesting read. 80% of crashes in snowfields were vehicles fitted with chains and points to the driver doing something stupid. Specific data for Hotham is included but it seems that of the 400 crashes in 2008 only 18 involved 4wd or AWD vehicles. The data for Hotham stacks up with data from overseas.

I can't find anything in the Road Safety Act or Regs to indicate chains must be carried outside a resort area. Perhaps others may have some better information on that. There are signs posted on the roads to the resorts indicating a point at which you cannot pass unless you have chains. If people get a ticket outside the resort then there may be cause to contest it. Each infringement notice will point to a specific section of an Act or regulation and if it indicates the Resort Management Act and you are outside the resort then it does not apply. The Road Management Act refers to using snow chains when not reasonably required and that is an offence but it is because it damages the road.

Not looking for any 'I think' 'I feel' 'I believe' stuff. Just the facts and a point to the relevant legislation requiring chains to be carried on snow roads in Vic.
 
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currawong

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From memory FWIW... A m/c can't enter Falls Creek if 2wds are being required to fit chains.
no, not supposed to take motorcycles into resorts during the declared season unless you have chains. A blind eye seems to be turned for locals. It is heavily policed if the motorcycle GP at Phillip Island occurs before the official end of the snow season, even if it's end of September and the GAR is clear and dry.
 
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