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Question 2019 Is there an avalanche threat to be considered?

Discussion in 'Alpine & Southern' started by Rat trap bindings, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. nfip

    nfip Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Fair enough , what then are the other options ?
    if you realise you don't know , and are keen to progress your skills and knowledge of the out doors , in the back country.
     
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  2. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah, I don't have a problem with the course. There just needs to be a progression method, for people who cannot hook up (or don't want to) with more experienced people. People are taking the course as a path in. An experienced resort rider is going to think they can read the snow/conditions the same as they do inbounds, unless the information they receive say other wise, or they have a bad day.

    And there is no accounting for individual behaviour, you can bang on in a course about whatever you like, some people are going to do what they do.
     
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  3. nfip

    nfip Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    there is the available guiding options. K7 , SMBC.
    at a cost.
    perhaps this should be more firmly encouraged in the course.
    big issue this one.
    along the lines of swim between the flags etc.
     
  4. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    AST 0, how to navigate in a whiteout.
    AST 00, how to self arrest
    AST 000, how to cross a river
    AST 0000, how to poo appropriately into a bag
    AST 1, where not to ski
     
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  5. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Don't put the focus on technology..... ditch the beacons and digging pits. Make it about all of the other stuff, like reading terrain and being circumspect.
     
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  6. nfip

    nfip Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    as we all know.
    it's one piece of the puzzle.
    not the one stop shop.
    up to the course providers to re-inforce this .
    as they are trained to do to achieve their accreditation from my best knowledge.
    yeas agreed 100%
    need solid grounding in orienteering , hiking , first aid and double shot of common sense.
     
  7. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    BC gnarring is like the sport climbing phenomenon.
    A lot of really strong, technically proficient people coming from a gym/resort/Red Bull/GoPro background with no experience of real world consequences.
    Transition courses are great but can fast track to overconfidence in dubious situations.
    Experience can’t be purchased.
     
  8. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I bought all mine online!
     
  9. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    The number of "looking for partners" "I have AST1 and all the gear" posts on Facebook .....

    Recalling the hilarious "find the buried beacon" test during my AST 1. Old guy, me stands back to observe the kids tripping over each other with enthusiasm.

    The buried beacon passed away
     
  10. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    :eek: LOL
     
  11. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    To be fair it does convey /something/ that there is some level of skill set or interest in safety. Gotta start somewhere
     
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  12. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    All true. The enthusiasm for the practical hands on parts of the course are a real eye opener. Reminded me of one of those "office bonding" exercises where dominance of ego tends to prevail. The theory of staying out of trouble is IMHO not absorbed as much.

    Perhaps we need an AST1 course with an "Australia supplement" that includes moving on icy terrain and crampon use advice ?
     
  13. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes, it’s great people are doing the courses and getting educated.
    But it’s Australia, not NZ, US, EU.
    To my knowledge only 3 ever recorded avi deaths in Australia.
    Kunama Hut and the poor guys on Bogong a few years ago.
    I feel OZ Avi danger is being overemphasised compared to other common OZ bc dangers.
    How many people with a beacon, probe and shovel also have an EPIRB, self arrest tool, navigation stuff, emergency bivy bag and a first aid kit with knowledge to use them all and appropriately.
     
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  14. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    And the dude buried by a cornice collapse at Blue Lake around 10 years ago.
     
  15. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ah yes.
    My GPs son.
     
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  16. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    This.

    Blue Lake Cornice collapse and Bogong avalanche are very tragic examples of route selection mistakes where "beacon probe shovel" played nil part.
     
  17. nfip

    nfip Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    there are a few of these "mountaineering "courses being offered . I think thru MBC and also AAA hook up with some others guys.
    I could well do with this further knowledge in my kit.
    comfortable with my navigation , first aid etc
    Just havent been able to get to one of the courses.
    yet.
     
  18. blowfin

    blowfin One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yeah I was literally writing this post...

    Snowsafety.com.au are starting to offer ski mountaineering courses, seriously thinking about doing one next year. Certainly before i'd ever do an AST2. For the goals I'd like to set in the main range the skills seem way more relevant.
     
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  19. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Along with bootpacking up a loaded Etheridge Ridge.....
     
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  20. nfip

    nfip Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    snowsafety.inc
    no thx.
     
  21. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah buddy can I see your pass for being out here? Fully certified I hope
     
  22. Rick Ross Da Boss

    Rick Ross Da Boss One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Maybe one/some of the highly trained experts in this thread should put together an Australian conditions focused backcountry seminar/course for these new comers....
     
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  23. plink01

    plink01 Hard Yards

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    I still don't get the hate on the avalanche course. Who the hell walked out of that and thought 'i have a beacon I'm invincible'??
    Any training is better than 0 training. It was advertised as an avalanche course, not a Backcountry 101 course. Also having some gear is better then having no gear.
    No shit there is more to backcountry than just avalanches, especially in Aus. You do realise a lot of people who did the course are also going to go backcountry in countries other than Aus? Where there is real avalanche danger.
    Like I said earlier the only way to learn is to go out there and do it. Any help you can pick up before hand or along the way is a bonus. No one was born an expert, everyone started somewhere.
     
  24. nfip

    nfip Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Agreed.
    liked again. :thumbs:
    I think anyone doing the AST-1 realises they something / have a bit to learn.
    so it's simply Step 1.
    and plenty of them / us are going OS into potential serious terrain of consequence .
    many here way more qualified than me to talk the bc talk.
    I step back.
    my obs tho are my obs simply from experience.
    no spring chicken tho.
    dammit.
    however have been bc with others that talk the talk and can't buy a turn.
    hauled punters out from day trip in side country gone , not so good.
    seen first hand and listened to the blurb, seen the immaculate signage from ...one of the training options so ....
    the playing field is rather broad to say the least.
    I think best we can all do here is collaborate and share our knowledge as there's very likely a few readers come here looking for guidance and there own way forward with this very issue.
     
  25. blowfin

    blowfin One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Wasn't Snowsafety actually MRBC to begin with, just re-branded? Who else does ski mountaineering courses that people would consider to be solid?
     
  26. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    I dunno

    Something by someone who is at least past way through ski guiding or full course or qualified in something IFMGA- recognised (NZ MGA, etc)
     
  27. nfip

    nfip Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not quite. be carefull there. IMO.
    my first hand obs.
    One partner was good at the marketing , big signage , the internet clicky likey thing. credit there. I gue$$.
    the other had the actual grass roots ski skills, background in the mountains and feet firmly on the ground.
    beware the bright flashing lights. IMO. ;)
     
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