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22 Designs Lynx NTN Binding

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by skifree, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Engineering disagrees, sorry.

    NNNbc do not overlap the ski making them harder to get on edge, not saying impossible just harder. The bar in the boot is never a tight fit in the binding so the first movement to edge is wasted. Reality is if they went down fine, Olympic courses would have actual hills on them.

    The riva etc solved some of these issue with a tighter fit giving a little more edge control. Sure like them for what they were great for going forward, but cable bindings defiantly improved going down.
     
  2. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    Hey Ziggy watch your words I have been using T4 s , Riva Z + Karhu Guides for a few years on the BHP , I think its a great compromise for winter conditions.
    A bit tempted to try something like the
    Svartisen GTX® 75mm at 1020 g it doesnt say what size.
    BTW this Tuesday 30th is looking like a nice touring day at Falls , 2 of us are going, anyone want to meet up?
     
  3. Goski

    Goski Addicted

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  4. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    Nice little telemark video also on that site.
     
  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    You're mixing up the binding and the boot. Talking about engineering.

    The bigger variable than the clamp is the torsional rigidity of the boot. See the Glittertind or the Svartisen, not a clapped out rental.

    Added:

    And you're ignoring the sole ribs.
     
  6. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thanks, normally yes but I'm in the big smoke for a few days.

    As posted elsewhere I've started using the Svartisen NNNBC on Epochs. Sweet rig for scooting over the plains.
     
  7. Goski

    Goski Addicted

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    Here is the link to what I agree is a nice video. Looks like Outlaw X binding at 0:09 seconds.
     
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  8. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    How is the fit and the rigidity / control of the Svartisen considering its NNNBC?
     
  9. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Will have to agree to disagree, I’ve been on nnnbc, riva’s, chillis, hammerhead’s, o2’s and ntn and I can say to two best ski days of my life we’re getting rid of the nnnbc and shifting to ntn.
     
  10. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I went from 3 pin to NNNBC, and thought it was awesome. But then I went to cables, etc etc. The NNNBC was pretty good for kick and glide, but IMO that was about it. Which is fair enough, yes you can turn on Nordic gear, but Telemark is an entirely (though related) seperate discipline IMO. It is not xc.
     
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  11. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Can you make it a power strap, two buckle boot?
     
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  12. Goski

    Goski Addicted

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    The bottom buckle could go at least if the boot tongue fit well enough to keep snow out. Don't know why so many boots have the lower instep buckle. Seems like overkill for the job of sealing the boot. I muse that a lightweight silicone rand under the tounge would do that job for less weight.
     
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    https://www.ski.com.au/xf/threads/crispi-svartissen-nnn-bc-boots.85238/
    There's a limit to the ski size you can control.
    Out of interest last winter I put Glittertind boots and NNNBC on Fischer S-Bound 112 (79mm underfoot) and no.
    Epochs yes, with the Svartisen.
    The big variable as mentioned is the leverage the boot offers.
    I bought an ancient pair of ex rental Outbounds last winter and there's no play in the NNNBC clamp.
     
  14. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sorry again but this is meaningless without specifying the ski combos and applications.
    If you're talking about a quiver of one it'll have strengths and tradeoffs that you could live with but another skier would reject.
    And the big change since I started skiing is that few dedicated skiers have a quiver of one any more. We get horses for courses.
     
  15. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I don’t see how it is meaningless, nnnbc are designed for skating not turning. I get you like them but accept they have limitations.

    I love my freedom, yep I tour on them but I accept they have limits
     
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you want a binding designed for skating you'd opt for something like a Salomon Pilot.
    The BC in NNNBC stands for back country - it's a touring version of the general purpose New Nordic Norm, having a wider baseplate that would overlap a skate ski.
     
  17. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    When I can only carry 1 pair of boots to Charlottes and snow is soft no probs w T4s + 92mm waist ski.
    Ziggy Just wondering how you think the Svartisen 75mm .w. a Guide 78 mm waist would be in softish stuff.??
     
  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    All I can say is that for me the NNNBC version is good for up to 70mm waist when there's icy downhill traverses or I want to edge for turns.
     
  19. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Pretty close to rubbish on any sort of down in soft.
     
  20. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    Nah my point is that soft snow is easy to edge and would take T4 if its deeper so weaker boots should be OK on a day trip , ice/firm would be the enemy ? .
     
  21. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I wouldn’t do it, I’ve done my time on skinny sticks & crap boots & bindings designed for semi prepared trails, this is the wording in the wholesale catadog for NNNBC. The Euros really shake their heads when we talk about K to K type conditions for NNNBC use.
     
  22. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    Only been to Charlottes once on the oversnow. Quite a few folk exceeded the luggage limit without consequence.
    Depends on the time of course but it stays firmer there than at most other side country.
    As a rule of thumb if I don't know what to expect I'd take the heavier gear.
     
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  23. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    :thumbs:
     
  24. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    Good plan Ziggy, more or less my philosophy for touring.

    Far better to make it down perhaps with tired legs than to reach the limit of the equipment and be making survival snowplows. Or worse!
     
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  25. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  26. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    First weekend out on new Lynx.
    They’re fantastic, ski like the Meijo but just seem ten tonnes more burley.
    Same weight but just feel more robust.
    Stepping in to them is a dream compared to the Meijo. And easier to press in to tour mode.
    Transitions probably faster than your average AT setup, but similar to Meijo.
    Mostly just touring last few days so will comment again once I’ve skied en piste and done some big lines.
     
  27. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    They’re awesome en piste too.
    Very solid, with great lead to lead.
    Even with ice and chunky snow underfoot they remain a breeze to step in to.
     
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  28. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

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    Do you just step in and ski or do you tighten the tech toe?
    I love mine but i do find the toe loose upon first step in, the pins aren't super tight.
     
  29. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Tech pin toes should all be exactly the same in their dimensions once closed, likewise the boots are all meant to have the cups precisely the same.

    So it’s a concern yours feel loose.

    Are the boots new?
     
  30. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

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    Tx pros, 3rd season. Inspected them properly the other night, nothing obvious. My dynafits on my tts setup are way snappier on the click in. Not a super big deal, the lynx is still my preferred binding over my 2 generations of outlaws. But still love to get them perfect!
     
  31. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Haven’t had to tighten them at all when not touring, bomber solid and have really pushed them.
     
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  32. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you figure any way to adjust pins let us know. As far as i can see pins are typically all as per factory with no adjustment possible. Would love to be corrected.

    There are I think 4 folks here who are looking to adjust their pin set due to over centre pivot point not being correct.
     
  33. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

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    Got my vernier on.

    My dynafits click to 51mm (pin to pin) on first click. Lifting the lock lever doesnt seem to bring them closer.

    My lynx click to 54mm and 55mm (l and r are different) on first click, then tighten to an eventual 53mm when the lever is raised.

    So appears that the tech toe standard is not too standard? Anyone else care to provide some comparison results?
     
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  34. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    It's not meant to as far as i know, it simply a mechanical block to stop the spring arms from moving from the up (closed) position to the down (open) position. But I'm only beginner with tech toes so correct me if i'm wrong.:)

    No vernier but will get out the steel rule and some bindings for a look see after arvo smoko.
     
  35. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    A real rough measure is my two Meidjo's closed are 56 point of pin to point of pin.

    And the ATK Newmark is a fair bit less, more like 51 point to point.

    I suspect we should measure from the start of the cone, anyone know more? @Telemark Phat

    I'll have to drop by the workshop and do the measures proper like with a vernier, it proved more difficult than I thought to be accurate with the rule.
     
  36. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  37. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Contact 22 Designs and ask them what it should be
     
  38. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

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    Was thinking the same thing! Stay tuned
     
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  39. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    The study linked indicates the dimension in the boot cones is consistently 58.

    I suspect these were all alpine boots. But that should not make a difference.
     
  40. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

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    My mates meidjos were measured at 53mm pin point to pin point. Maybe difference between vernier and rule?

    Have emailed 22 designs with questions!

    Interestingly my boot cones are 61mm apart, my wifes dh boots are 60.5mm apart. A fair difference from that study?!?!
     
  41. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    The 58 in the study is the the bottom of the inverted cone in the boots,

    Where is your boot dim taken?

    Telemark Pyrenees tells me dim point to point (well that’s what i asked for, their answer could be read alternatively but think it’s just a language thing) on the Meidjo is 54.
     
  42. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    So this is a brand new Meidjo 2.1 fresh out of the box. Pin tip to pin tip is near enough to 54.

    I measured my two pairs of Meidjo 2.0s, well used (abused) and they were near enough to 56.



    This is current production Lynx fresh out of the box, pin tip to pin tip near enough to 56.

    I also measured the two Beta model Lynxs in the WS demo fleet and they were near enough to 56 pin tip to pin tip.

    Also measured my ATK Newmarks and they were a tight 54 pin tip to pin tip.

    Thanks to Wilderness Sports for the loan of the measure device and access to bindings. They have a large and a small in demo for the Lynx and the Meidjo 2.1 on pretty nice BD skis.
     
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  43. Goski

    Goski Addicted

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    Is the hole pattern for Lynx the standard 22 Designs 6 hole pattern a la Outlaws?
     
  44. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes.
     
  45. Goski

    Goski Addicted

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    Yes it does....of course....see the linked review.
    6 holes vs 13 for Meidjos is a big plus for me. Much easier to mount and then swap to other skis with inserts. If I like the way Lynx bindings skis on lower spring tension the separated release capabilty of the Meidjos is less of an advantage over.what looks like a sturdier 22 designs offering.
    https://www.gearx.com/blog/2019/03/21/22-designs-lynx-tele-binding-review/
     
  46. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    The pedant in me has to correct the 6 threads for the Lynx to 8. The 13 for the Meidjo includes the heel piece.

    They ski the same, they both have adjustable spring tensions.

    But if you’re swapping from another 22 Design product with the same hole layout it makes a lot of sense to use the Lynx if you’re not fussed by release.
     
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  47. Goski

    Goski Addicted

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    Don't mind some pedancy....or is it pedanticness?
    8 holes is still 5 less than 13. I do like having some release. Ideally I'll demo both bindings and the Lynx at its lower end of spring tension.
     
  48. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Actually possible.:)
     
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  49. Goski

    Goski Addicted

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    Thanks. I crossed posts with you after deciding to not be lazy and find out myself. I do appreciate that 2w Designs kerp their pattern across their bindings and it removes a disincentive for 22 Designs 75mm users who love their current skis to change to NTN.
     
  50. Goski

    Goski Addicted

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    A trip across the border to Wilderness Sports is the answer or perhaps there may be some to demo at the upcoming Backcountry Festival at Hotham Sept 7-8.
     
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