1. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Après topics or continue browsing and reading as a guest.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

22 Designs Lynx NTN Binding

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by skifree, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    16,812
    Likes Received:
    30,724
    Location:
    Blue Mtns, 1100M.
    Weird is a nice adjective......
     
    Telemark Phat, skifree and telecrag like this.
  2. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    18,787
    Likes Received:
    14,880
    Location:
    Jindabyne
    Polite as well.
     
    skifree likes this.
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    4,783
    I forget often enough to pull them up but always like it when I do.
    And the TX Pros do enough clamping of the leg to get me buckling loose most of the times when it's possible.
     
  4. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    621
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW Australia
    Update - just got back from Kyrgyzstan - my "Gen 2" Lynxs (the ones that replaced the first proper production run) were the bindings I had (mounted to Moonlights) - half way through the trip noticed that the pins holding the blue toe arms in place had migrated backwards til they were nearly out. Managed to locate a hammer and put them back in place - upon return have contacted 22 designs and they are sending out new toe pieces. Piccy attached.

    Obviously not ideal, but must give 22 Designs a million thumbs up for excellent customer service. And despite this being my third set of toe pieces, I'm still standing by the Lynx! Obviously more beta testing would have been ideal but for weight, simplicity and performance they are awesome. Keen to see how the Gen 3s go this season.

    Just posting this as something for everyone to keep an eye on, especially prior to a BC trip. The earlier you detect it, the easier it will be to hammer back in - once the pin migrates back far enough (ie past the aluminium bit), it can be a pain to re-align it so that it goes back through cleanly.
     
    Ziggy and skifree like this.
  5. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,865
    Likes Received:
    940
    That really should not be happening.
    However it sounds like excellent service
     
  6. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    621
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW Australia
    Yeah not sure why ends aren't splayed to prevent migration. Keen to see revised version to see how they've solved it....
     
  7. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    2,213
    Likes Received:
    2,933
    Location:
    Yackandandah NE Victoria
    I realize all new ideas have their problems before all is good.
    Not totally convinced yet. I am always nervous about equipment failures in remote places ,lucky they have Kyrgzstanian hammers.
     
  8. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    4,420
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Location:
    vic
    Mm doesn’t exactly make me feel like rushing out to buy a set. I worry as my 110+ kg would stress this binding more than average.

    Be nice to know if V3 has solved this issue. Or is this a once off?

    I might wait a year or two and see what the experts/ users are saying. (;-)
     
  9. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    621
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW Australia
    Snowgum, not a once off- found a tech bulletin on their website stating its a known issue.

    The longer a product is in production, definitely the more time they have to identify and rectify bugs. I was an early adopter to this binding, and have had a few issues as a result. Given that they seem to be design issues rather than catastrophic failure, I'm confident they'll get it right.

    It did start the conversation over there as to what was the most reliable tele binding on the market. If you are commited to free pivot, TTS? Gawd, or even bombers? (Never seen the touring version in real life though)
     
  10. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    4,420
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Location:
    vic
    Howdy impressed at your ski location - Would be interesting to do / get to?

    Gen #2 eh? Aren’t we on Gen #3 now or am I thinking of Meijo?

    I’m not desperate to spend another $800 clams just now - a year after doing the whole TX Pro/ Outlaw X upgrade. But I’d love to lose some weight off whatever ski I use to tour & Lynx could save 300g per foot. That’s over 1$ per gram.

    I plan to get better gliding full skins (Contour?) for when kickers don’t work. I can also put my HHeads back on to selected ski (same pattern using Quiver Killers) and use my Excursions to tour.

    The latter saves close to 500g per side for the price of 16 m5 fasteners. So it’s a bargain. The skins are more about energy saving than wait but after nylon G3’s I think they’re worth a shot.

    I hope the new (toepiece?) solves the problem for a while? For good? 22D seem value the customers so that’s some hope?

    By the time I’m ready to spend, hopefully gen #3 is bedded down & delivering top quality toe pieces?

    Who knows; one the mythical lightweight NTN touring boot could appear? Mm?
     
  11. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    621
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW Australia
    Hey snowgum what skis do you use? I've saved a heap of weight in the last few years that way. My 95s underfoot are 1350g (zag ubacs) and my 106s are 1420g (moonlight all mountain).

    Have been to Wilderness Sports and seen the contours. They look interesting for sure, would have bought some if i didn't already have new skins. My current G3s have 30% mohair which def saves weight and space.

    And I've posted a few kyrgyz piccies in the Less Travelled forum of yer interested.....
     
    snowgum likes this.
  12. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,355
    Likes Received:
    20,615
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    And folks laughed at me when I said the Lynx was no more reliable than the Meidjo.

    Both are reliable, perform equally, weigh essentially the same, the only difference is the Meidjo offers rear release.

    Both have had issues reported over their journeys and both are undergoing product evolution to improve performance and address failures. But as people tend to report failures rather than the number of successful kilometres skied it's the failures we see and talk about.

    Some of the failures do arise with the way we ski them, particularly if we come from and do not change (improve) techniques we used old school 75mm equipment.
     
  13. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    4,420
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Location:
    vic
    Howdy will look out for those pics cheers:

    My main Aussie Bc ski is / will be a 188cm Rustler 9 (94mm) with quiver killers installed they’re about 2.05 kg a ski before Outlaw Xs are mounted. TX Pros in a 30 with beds are 2kg each.

    I have access to wider skis for en piste but they’re even heavier & not practical in Oz.

    And my old Rossi PowderBirds ((176 & 83mm) are abt 1.9 kg with QKs - so not overly light for a short ‘skinny’ ski.

    I figure on mainly touring in Excursions on Hheads for now and slackening off the HHead setting to #1 (loosening cable etc) until I can find a super light ski (Wayback, Backland?) and perhaps a Lynx?

    Naturally. 22D AXL would be better than the old HHead - will need to budget for that in the future.

    Not simple / cheap getting a BC/trail/lift quiver set up?

    oh and I like those ski weights? Do they cope with bumps/ crud OK on the down?
     
  14. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    621
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW Australia
    Superlight weight skis are typically not designed for bumps (you don't get many in the bc!), and my zags can be a bit squirrely inbounds. The moonlights however are amazing - they have a carbon layer that stiffens them up and keeps the vibes to a minimum. Def the most versatile ski I've owned and the way of the future. Agree it is an investment though! Nothing that light comes cheap
     
  15. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,355
    Likes Received:
    20,615
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    Which Moonlights do you have?

    I have a pair of the Northern Light Carbon's, must unforgiving ski I have owned. They go well on tour and when i get it right they do rip. But you have to be spot on with everything on every turn.
     
  16. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    28,861
    Likes Received:
    38,006
    IMO in the right conditions the light skis are amazing, but also IMO in any less than perfect (much less, not just a bit) they deflect much easier, and become a bit of a handful.

    Still worth it for touring though, after all most of your time is climbing, so if you have to work a bit harder on the run, its not too big a deal.
     
    skifree likes this.
  17. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,355
    Likes Received:
    20,615
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    This I would disagree with in my very very small sample.

    You just need proper size boots and I'd let you loose in some stiff light skis.:)
     
    telecrag likes this.
  18. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    621
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW Australia
    I have the All Mountain Carbon. Presumably a similar construction, just different geometry? Or most likely I'm not a good enough skier to notice!
     
    telecrag likes this.
  19. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    28,861
    Likes Received:
    38,006
    Vectors were the ski, icy crust, quite nasty, but I still think I could have powered my resort kit through it.
     
  20. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,355
    Likes Received:
    20,615
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    You are very likely a better skier, this would not be hard.

    And the different geometry would behave differently and should have a different layup.
     
  21. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,355
    Likes Received:
    20,615
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    Yeah, the vectors were / are a really nice ski but a bit sketchier on ice than other skis in the library.
     
    telecrag likes this.
  22. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    4,420
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Location:
    vic
    Re boots with lighter BC skis:

    I wonder how well my Excursions & Hheads will push my R9s?

    Have done similar in nice soft warm spring conditions in Scotland but in BC skis more 80 waist than 94. Shouldn't be too different?

    But in deep heavy porridge I wonder if lighter boots will cope?

    I reckon to save ~ 1 kg in total its worth trying - esp in combo with better gliding skins (Contour 70/30 M/N).

    Will advise when I try this winter. (;-)
     
  23. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    4,420
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Location:
    vic
    Damn! Apologies gang my phone spun its wheels & didnt seem to recognize ‘post reply’ button was pushed. :emoji_astonished::whistle: :confused:
     
  24. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    621
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW Australia
    New lynx toes arrived. Pins now only go in from the front, the hole on backside is blocked off:
    Plus the pin diameter seems to be larger:
    Plus they are a very pleasing shade of blue.

    Stay tuned!
     
    Telemark Phat, skifree and telecrag like this.
  25. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    28,861
    Likes Received:
    38,006
    Anyone has a release from one yet?

    I have come out of every binder I have had, whether it was supposed to be release or not, IMO springs give a margin, if your infrastructure is strong. I have pulled a couple of binders out of the ski too.

    Best release so far was a double eject out of Freerides.
     
  26. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    621
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW Australia
    Have never released out of a 22 designs binding while skiing, but admittedly have torqued out of the lynxes doing kick turns on an icy skintrack
     
    telecrag likes this.
  27. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    28,861
    Likes Received:
    38,006
    I pulled out of Hammerheads a couple of times.
     
    snowgum likes this.
  28. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    4,420
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Location:
    vic
    I have torqued of former HHs several times but mostly when I set one side really low slack so it was understandable. Also on One or two big stacks but v rare. I think the heel motion saves in most cases.

    I would think in time 22D can reset they're claw tension & metal strength to the level of a big sudden stack or impact by say a 120 kg skier...? Factor decel at x ms-2... yarda..

    Not a perfect science so good luck. Your experience may help my future decision?
     
    telecrag likes this.
  29. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,355
    Likes Received:
    20,615
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    I did not release from the Lynx in my test drives, no real surprise given only toe release and what I do during a test drive.

    I have released several times from the Meidjos which are my everything binding and so now and then get pushed pretty hard for me. I've not really had any issues with them releasing prematurely that I can be sure enough to care enough about. A couple of pop outs when traversing without the touring lock on:doh:, but in those instances the binding is doing exactly what it's designed to do.
     
    snowgum, Untele-whippet and telecrag like this.
  30. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    621
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW Australia
    Have just mounted my new toes. Can confirm spring tension on latest model is mega toit like a tiger. The snap is huge when you step in. Loving it!
     
    skifree and snowgum like this.
  31. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    4,420
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Location:
    vic
    Careful you dont tred in bare feet!
     
    skifree likes this.
  32. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    621
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW Australia
    Like a mouse trap!

    A really, really effing expensive mouse trap....
     
  33. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    4,420
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Location:
    vic
    Well especially after the resulting surgery?

    Though I suppose once one has their pin holes inserted the subsequent times are a lot easier!!
    (;-)

    OUCH!!
     
  34. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    16,812
    Likes Received:
    30,724
    Location:
    Blue Mtns, 1100M.
  35. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    4,420
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Location:
    vic
    Mm looks ok for touring. Turning not so sure.

    Its a bit heavier than the M binding & Lynx which is a tad surprising for a simple cable binding??
     
    telecrag likes this.
  36. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    4,420
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Location:
    vic
    Can we assume the 6 hole pattern wont match the 22D variety? A shame if not?
     
  37. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,355
    Likes Received:
    20,615
    Location:
    Middle Oz
  38. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,355
    Likes Received:
    20,615
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    Somewhere there is a @Telemark Phat review of skiing a version of TTS.
     
  39. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    28,861
    Likes Received:
    38,006
    I cant think of many reasons to go back to a heel throw, are they retailing for $60 or something?
     
    skifree likes this.
  40. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,355
    Likes Received:
    20,615
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    499.00 Euro (or A$915.00 today, might be more tomorrow) apparently, should fly off the shelf like toilet paper at that price, not.
     
  41. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    4,420
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Location:
    vic
    Geez thats a lot of dosh for a modest amount of tech desgn & metal/placcy!!

    AT gear is starting look fairly cheap & light!
     
    skifree likes this.
  42. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,355
    Likes Received:
    20,615
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    It's a stupid price for a very niche and does not really work that well as far as I understand it binding.

    It's probably good for going and going miles and miles with the occasional down to deal with, but that is a real niche need.
     
    snowgum likes this.
  43. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    4,420
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Location:
    vic
    Theres no way to grip the duck butt which, with my limited (1.5 seasons) experience looks suss on the down - esp on steep terrain, deeper snot & big skis/skiers!!

    Lynx & Meidjo look pretty safe for now.
     
    skifree likes this.
  44. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,355
    Likes Received:
    20,615
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    I was about to post the ATK Newmark does the same thing as TTS but differently and it did cost a bomb. Not that they are available nuu anymore. I find the ATK challenging but when you get it right on the down it is very sweet. Think super three pin.

    I’d be interested in @Telemark Phat ’s comparo of the ATK vs TTS.
     
  45. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    18,787
    Likes Received:
    14,880
    Location:
    Jindabyne
    TTS has been around for almost a decade. I played with the original version from Wasatch https://wasatchski.com/tts.htm

    I tried several different positions and springs and I couldn't get a flex I liked. It was either way too active or way too neutral for my tastes. Where the system has great potential is with the Moonlight and Kreuzspitz systems where you can easily remove the heel throw to reduce the weight on your feet on the up. Other than that the Meijdo and Lynx are a vastly superior solution. The duckbutt is just better. Say no to 75mm and heel throw bindings so we can have some boot innovation again.
     
    dossa5, skifree and snowgum like this.
  46. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    16,812
    Likes Received:
    30,724
    Location:
    Blue Mtns, 1100M.
    It took me 3 seasons of tinkering with spring length/tension and pivot points to be really happy with TTS then it destroyed my ankle.
     
    skifree likes this.
  47. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,355
    Likes Received:
    20,615
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    ahhh, I didn't realise it was the TTS beastie that ate your ankle.

    So it wasn't a real telemark binding that did it.

    Therefore you can return to telemark if you use a real telemark binding.
     
    telecrag, Telemark Phat and snowgum like this.
  48. chokenchickin

    chokenchickin One of Us

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    759
    Got to try out my moonlight tele bindings for a month of back country skiing in Hokkaido this year. Happy to report no problems at all. Zero ice build up on the bindings. No tip dive when telemarking in deep powder. Just felt nicer when skiing in powder on the moonlight bindings compared to a previous trip when I was on the Meijdos.
     
    skifree likes this.
  49. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,355
    Likes Received:
    20,615
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    Some maintenance issues to keep in mind if you are running Lynx's.

     
  50. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    4,420
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Location:
    vic
    Its a bit of a worry Skifree.

    Lynx is definitely in the mix in my future plans. May just take a bit longer.

    just thinking hole patterns for Meidjo and 22d. (And the future?)

    is there any commonality between them or, would moving from say 22d to Meidjo require 13(?) totally new holes? Just curious!

    ...updating/ adding 13 new insets could be ‘fun’??
     
  51. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    26,355
    Likes Received:
    20,615
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    Well for my old 75mm holes I just filled em with epoxy then got the best fit for the Meidjo hole layout & drilled em in. Sure technically I voided warrantees but to bad, saved buying new skis for a season.

    I have ultimately moved onto nuu skis but some of them have Meidjo holes & ATK holes so pretty similar Swiss cheese effect.

    Read insert for hole.