22 Designs Lynx NTN Binding

snowgum

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Thanks for that one!
I've been having exactly that problem last couple of months and couldn't for the life of me get to the bottom of it!
Now will have to engineer a little split donut....

Howdy,

Its great to have these workarounds but wouldn’t you think (hope) that by the production update - ie version # 2 (for you? Or is it V#1?); that the spring tension/length - longevity would be well-sorted?

Along with the mechanics of the active (moving) duck-butt & the toe pin tension, it’s the core of the boot retention and security while turning, traversing, etc...?

Don’t they test these things for a season or two and ask selected team members to ‘go away and break’ the Beta versions?

or not?

I’m glad my 25 days on the Outlaw X have been much smoother and confidence inspiring!
(Touching wood off camera!).
 

Ziggy

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I’m glad my 25 days on the Outlaw X have been much smoother and confidence inspiring!
It's v2 of the design and has been improved out of a lot of field experience.
It's also to my mind a more robust design.
In an AT design 2 pins and some downward foot pressure have to cope with a lot of force. It's a wonder it works at all for tele.
 
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snowgum

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Like a mouse trap!

A really, really effing expensive mouse trap....

Howdy BW (or anyone? Skifree?)

with my eye on a future lighter weight set (as per ad nauseam here); do you have any idea when the Lyx V3 could be expected for release and (harder still) what changes could be see?

Do you think it might be worth going on a ‘pre-order’ this Spring for an Autumn 21’ delivery?

Or is it just too hard to tell anything?

..FWIW it’s still the most logical light binder to get (given my 22D patterns in 4 skis; 2 of them quite new) assuming this and the Meidjo are roughly on par and ignoring release.

And assuming I don’t get a new, blank light ski to mount. A few ifs but you (one) gets the giste!
cheers. :cool:
 

snowgum

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Skifree is generally correct, although i get the feeling from the link below that the current changes are here to stay:

https://www.telemarkskier.com/update-22ds-lynx-2020-revisions/

And yes, the v3 was my own terminology, not 22 designs

cheers Yes I think I’ve read about the changes. Neither pin binding is perfect.

For me it may boil down to the Lynx screwing straight into my existing 4 QK 22d pattern skis (2 main newbies; two older v wide/narrow models). If I had a new fabulous wide light touring ski fall into my yard from the blue, the Meidjo could get the nod.

trying to picture 10 or 11 of the toe& middle section Meidjo QK holes intermingling with 6 22 d holes (QK) without impacting adversely on a couple of very nice skis; each one year old or less (admittedly both quite solid with metal top sheets).

now if there was even one successful example of this transition I would feel more confident.

anyway will do some field testing if we get a winter. A second winter with lighter Excursions (over TX Pro) on the Rustler 9 and possibly the new Contour skins might show the way? Mmm?
 
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snowgum

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Keen to hear any contour reviews if you buy a pair. Certainly seemed to have potential when i fondled a pair in the shop......

happy to post the details - now if i was allowed to leave SE subs (Mel) this - weekend It’s just possible I could ski the Rustlers and test them. Hopefully early winter?
 

DPS Driver

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Keen to hear any contour reviews if you buy a pair. Certainly seemed to have potential when i fondled a pair in the shop......
I can give you a review on Contour. Been on them for a couple of years now. Also friends guiding in Japan, US and Europe on them. I will try not to be too biased.

They shit on every hot melt skin I have ever used. Easy to pull apart, stick super well to the base of your skis but pull away without too much effort. Don't leave glue residue on your bases. Glide as a well as a 70-30% Mohair / nylon skin should do, which is really good. Will get wet if not treated, the same as any other skin. So keep the wax up to them in spring, not as necessary during the height of the season.

And you can clean the glue just by washing in warm soapy water or using the special Contour wash, which is really good for Aust / NZ considering the amount of foliage and assorted shite we tend to get in our snow pack.

My retailers have sold a couple of hundred pair over the past couple of years and no warranty issues or bad reviews from anyone as yet.
 

snowgum

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Great report! And sound v good.

I’ll add my own commentary if I ever get out of the big smoke?

(Some lucky peeps may get a slide come the weekend? - so to access their second home or job site of course!)
 

Goski

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Great report! And sound v good.

I’ll add my own commentary if I ever get out of the big smoke?

(Some lucky peeps may get a slide come the weekend? - so to access their second home or job site of course!)
Accessing a second home isn't permitted under current restrictions. No visits to holiday home without police permission. My wife's boss's family did go to their Rye holiday house for 2 weeks of noisy railway works that would have seen them accommodated elsewhere by the gov. They got a letter from the police before leaving for Rye.
 
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snowgum

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Fair enough Goski, I wonder how many people are really adhering to this ruling?
 

Goski

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Fair enough Goski, I wonder how many people are really adhering to this ruling?
I think a lot are. Police in holiday spots are doing random checks to see if people there are in their primary home else the fines would be applied. Checks are being done on car drivers too. You need a valid reason to be driving somewhere. Push-biking qualifies as acceptable exercise though the Vic gov haven;t been clear as to what isn't allowed. On our early morning bike rides a few times per week I see people kicking balls to each other and lots of pairs who don't seem to be from the same household jogging or walking shoulder to shoulder, with or without pooches. Just as I rode past a lady wearing an ineffective paper mask she let out a big cough!
 
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Goski

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Keen to hear any contour reviews if you buy a pair. Certainly seemed to have potential when i fondled a pair in the shop......
I look forward to fondling @snowgum's new contours (tic). We sometimes have a ski together, when the snow and weather is ok and when family arrangements and availability align. So not often! Hopefully more this year if we are allowed out.
 
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buckwheat

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I can give you a review on Contour. Been on them for a couple of years now. Also friends guiding in Japan, US and Europe on them. I will try not to be too biased.

They shit on every hot melt skin I have ever used. Easy to pull apart, stick super well to the base of your skis but pull away without too much effort. Don't leave glue residue on your bases. Glide as a well as a 70-30% Mohair / nylon skin should do, which is really good. Will get wet if not treated, the same as any other skin. So keep the wax up to them in spring, not as necessary during the height of the season.

And you can clean the glue just by washing in warm soapy water or using the special Contour wash, which is really good for Aust / NZ considering the amount of foliage and assorted shite we tend to get in our snow pack.

My retailers have sold a couple of hundred pair over the past couple of years and no warranty issues or bad reviews from anyone as yet.

Well that solves that then! Think my next skin choice is going to be pretty straight forward.

Cheers for the review!
 

DPS Driver

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I look forward to fondling @snowgum's new contours (tic). We sometimes have a ski together, when the snow and weather is ok and when family arrangements and availability align. So not often! Hopefully more this year if we are allowed out.
"Fondling Snowgums Contours".

What happens on the mountain stays on the mountain.
 
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Ziggy

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Nah.

My project to recycle some 75mm gear for a cheap lightish touring rig came to grief on the cheap part.

And skifree got me thinking about NTN pin tech.

So I've ordered some Lynxes from Telemark Pyrenees on sale. I ski Outlaws on piste and sidecountry so there should be little new to learn. And with Safeouts I can mix and match bindings and skis easily, with a mount plate on each ski that will take either binding.

From Rhythm a pair of Annums is on the way too.

The Lynx and Annums will save about 650g per side over the Outlaws and V6s.
 
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snowgum

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Nah.

My project to recycle some 75mm gear for a cheap lightish touring rig came to grief on the cheap part.

And skifree got me thinking about NTN pin tech.

So I've ordered some Lynxes from Telemark Pyrenees on sale. I ski Outlaws on piste and sidecountry so there should be little new to learn. And with Safeouts I can mix and match bindings and skis easily, with a mount plate on each ski that will take either binding.

From Rhythm a pair of Annums is on the way too.

The Lynx and Annums will save about 650g per side over the Outlaws and V6s.

Hi Ziggy,

that sounds like a fabulous plan. Apart from the money angle - a good time if one has to buy?

Since I’ve hogged the floor already do you mind if bug you some more please? (Apologies to innocent bystanders!)

You stated earlier that used your Outlaws; Tx Pro(?) & V6 (Own Patten)? To tour the backcountry or side country?

Can I please ask (possibly an overlap from a previous Q so apologies in advance!): your Bc ski situation probably matches mine most closely on this forum:
- what terrain / area were you skiing the Above combo (NSW?);
- again? What were the main shortcomings? Was it just the shear mass (& that’s exactly skins!);
- did you find them to combersome; slow to turn in more complex, narrow, treed terrain?
(If so be worse in Vic/ Stirling etc...).
- did you feel they were still too slow with your own pattern some days (soft wet?), or;
- sometimes wish you’d bought the BC model for more grip (more xc ability less xcd focus?);
- perhaps think the Ultravector (BC/flat) covers more bases for a mix of touring and destination turns?
- perhaps think Annums might be enough for most tour & turning (slope) days in Oz and a wide BC for here is OTT (I haven’t tried Annums or any Voile skis so until I hire (this winter) - it’s all based on what I have now/done. (Ie 2.1 kg R9s or 2.3kg Enf104, TX, OutlawX; either kickers or G3 uni nylon)

Can also please ask what length Annum you went for?
(195 sounds long but 185 could ski pretty short at my weight; now 110) (;-)

looking Fed to your Lynx report - it’s the next maybe most obvious are for me to lose weight off current set ups.
Cheers big thanks SG.:thumbs:
 

snowgum

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Sorry one more thing Z.

are the Voile BC models pos or neg pls?
I guess they’d buzz quite a bit if the former?
Like the Karhu xcds? Etc...
 

Ziggy

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You stated earlier that used your Outlaws; Tx Pro(?) & V6 (Own Patten)? To tour the backcountry or side country?
Yes, TX Pro - piste and sidecountry
what terrain / area were you skiing the Above combo (NSW?);
Falls Creek, McKay, Rocky knobs etc
What were the main shortcomings? Was it just the shear mass (& that’s exactly skins!);
Minor shortcomings with the V6 is ice holding on icy surfaces is relatively hard work at 98mm underfoot and they chatter a good deal on frozen bubblewrap
did you find them to combersome; slow to turn in more complex, narrow, treed terrain?
No
did you feel they were still too slow with your own pattern some days (soft wet?), or;
- sometimes wish you’d bought the BC model for more grip (more xc ability less xcd focus?);
Sticky snow, yes, like every other ski.
No. I take kickers if I want to go steeper.
perhaps think the Ultravector (BC/flat) covers more bases for a mix of touring and destination turns?
- perhaps think Annums might be enough for most tour & turning (slope) days in Oz and a wide BC for here is OTT
Haven't skied them.
Yes. Epochs for firmer snow and straight line performance. Annums for touring to get to turns.
Can also please ask what length Annum you went for?
185 cm, for 74 kg (and pack).
are the Voile BC models pos or neg pls?
Don't know.
 
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snowgum

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Sweet ta Zig, a bit of a repeat but v appreciated.

Should have remembered another Vic. Your terrain similar to mine (swap Rocky Knolls for WatchBed Cm & Nelse); add Also Twins & back o’Hotham, & Loch to my usual Stirling haunt for my short Dist day-play XCD tour areas. So like you, I guess? Not huge verticals in one hit - compared with NSW slopes?
But all the very adds up over time. So does weight.

As a BTW; I’ve spoken to Rythm re sales and hire. In addition to sales they have some limited Voile hire stock inc a 178 V6 BC with AT. I figure if Im allowed out of Vic in winter, I could do worse than try the V6 - at least see if the scales or the ski per se sucks big time or ok? Will do same on Annums but seems I can do from Vic (EMC or Stirling).

This winter a I’ll have used the Excursions (0.5 kg lighter ea) & Contours (easier gliding)? on the R9s at least 2-3 times to see if that’s a way to better manage weight. (Or is its TXP & Lynx?) :rolleyes: the R9s are very nice on the downs. :thumbs:

So, I’m probably a year behind in terms of the upgrade but will certainly be watching any (your?) new gear reviews closely.

As for ski length weight - I’m in a totally different weight class (down to 110kg** eek!) but a couple of months on the (dry) wagon should help a tad? :thumbs:

**in my defence people are astounded I weight I do, being solid ish & ~ 6’2 1/2 - 3’, I manage to partially hide my bulk. It is handy walking on a narrow footpath during the CoVid 19 outbreak! ;):rolleyes::D:p
 

Ziggy

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Below is the 2020 revision of the Lynx.
The differences are listed here: https://www.telemarkskier.com/update-22ds-lynx-2020-revisions/
22D advise fitting at least one spacer from the off. Next year they will lengthen the springs.
The Hammerheel mystery has been replaced by a unitary assembly (compared with Outlaw and the 75mm bindings).
The pin block is a beautiful bit of CNC machining.
The pins close with a positive snap.

Lynx.jpg
 

snowgum

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Below is the 2020 revision of the Lynx.
The differences are listed here: https://www.telemarkskier.com/update-22ds-lynx-2020-revisions/
22D advise fitting at least one spacer from the off. Next year they will lengthen the springs.
The Hammerheel mystery has been replaced by a unitary assembly (compared with Outlaw and the 75mm bindings).
The pin block is a beautiful bit of CNC machining.
The pins close with a positive snap.

Lynx.jpg

Cheers Ziggy,

yes nice bit of metal. Sounds like there’s still scope for a modest retro upgrade?

(Not sure about the timing of mine - it’s one from a larger order). Enjoy!
 

snowgum

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Welcome to tech.
Still no brakes for them

FWIW: I note the wide brakes (120mm) for Outlaw X weigh ~75 gms each. Assume a future Lynx unit would be similar.

So ~ 150 gms pr. May not matter much for a light set up. But if you’re total set is getting up to tolerable tour limits then brakes won’t help. Definitely want to chose the lightweight runaway straps/clips if weight is an issue.
 

snowgum

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Howdy,

I note Rythm Sports have the Lynx on sale at the moment.


Current price of $443 is a significant discount. ~$300-$400? Ish.

I note on the Rythm site, the pic shows an older version, not the latest (~V3) withe ‘22D’ stamp on the slick pin retainer (flat lateral plate under ball of foot).


Just wondering if anyone knows if R are just slack updating the pic or are indeed, clearing their old (V2?) stock.

FWIW: I was thinking the sale was a sign I should bite the bullet. Very handy (vital) if I end up touring in Japow again one day post Covid? But my view is that the Lynx updates to date have been very necessary and worth waiting for?

Cheers for your thoughts.

PS: will try to call R, often it’s hard to find the BC Rep at the time of call.

PPS: I’ve looked at Dostie’s View vids, EYT & the 22D site. There’s no recent (ie ~ mid 2021) indications of another (2022? update) in the wings - AFAICT.
 

rowdyflat

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Why do tele manufacturers concentrate on making bindings lighter and more unreliable but no one has tackled the elephant which is the tele boot.?
Is it because the boot is more expensive to change molds etc ?
Obviously the AT market in Europe is bigger.
Still waiting for a lightweight touring tele boot < 1 kg. a la AT boots.
My T4 s have obvious places where weight could be lost ie the sole is too thick , the liner too bulky and the boot area around the ankle could be skeletonised .
 

Telemark Phat

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Why do tele manufacturers concentrate on making bindings lighter and more unreliable but no one has tackled the elephant which is the tele boot.?
Is it because the boot is more expensive to change molds etc ?
Obviously the AT market in Europe is bigger.
Still waiting for a lightweight touring tele boot < 1 kg. a la AT boots.
My T4 s have obvious places where weight could be lost ie the sole is too thick , the liner too bulky and the boot area around the ankle could be skeletonised .
We won't see anything before 75mm dies.
 

skifree

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bindings lighter and more unreliable

I'd disagree with this.


You still having your T4s and not moving to NTN is part of the reason boot manufacturers are not doing a lot. The NTN portion of the telemark boot market needs to get to maybe 100% before much more will happen in.
 
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telecrag

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NTN would be 90% of new boots bought now surely?

They will just stop making 75 eventually, demand is surely dwindling. Will they stop making ICE or 75mm first?
 

rowdyflat

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I dont want 75 mm to die , I have 1 pair of boots I am very happy with and the other T4 could be lighter and have about 8 pairs of 75 mm bindings and skis.
I agree having 2 binding systems dilutes the market but I think that is a distraction because the 75 mm system is super reliable and is entrenched.
Once someone takes a teleboot and cuts out the fat, it doesnt really matter about the binding system.
 
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rowdyflat

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NTN would be 90% of new boots bought now surely?

They will just stop making 75 eventually, demand is surely dwindling. Will they stop making ICE or 75mm first?
well in Australia ICE will go on for ages and 75 mm isnt dwindling quickly for the same reasons , people are happy with something that works , that there is little supporting infrastructure ie charging stations?
I dont personally ski with anyone who has NTN , I know 2 or 3 that have it , whereas you koolaiders would see NTN everywhere ?
 

telecrag

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Most yes, I see some 75 around, but not new usually. I think I only have one friend still on it, I still have one setup left, but its been years.

Doesn't bother me, if you are having fun you are doing it right, Id say the numbers in general are too small to get development for touring, and the gear works fine inbounds. If you want light just use skates and skill up.
 

snowgum

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Most yes, I see some 75 around, but not new usually. I think I only have one friend still on it, I still have one setup left, but its been years.

Doesn't bother me, if you are having fun you are doing it right, Id say the numbers in general are too small to get development for touring, and the gear works fine inbounds. If you want light just use skates and skill up.
Vic & NSW are two very different markets.

Bearing in mind 90% of my Oz skiing has been in Vic. But I’d guess more than half of NSW Heavy touring (ie, plac boots) is above the tree line on ungroomed trails or routes, and a fair % of this provides access to decent verticals for tele of at least 2-300m. Many NSW days would not involve walking a km or 4 of mud, slush or mush before donning skis.

But a high % of Victorian starts on either groomed (classic) xc trails suiting lower court boots with a good RoM. Many of these days (LMtn, BB, MSG, Buff & often Stirling) do not involve one Telemark, or carved slope turn.

Let’s face it, a lot of mugs can use the KT chair and gain 2000m for biggish Ramshead slope skiing within an hour or two. Feathertop or Bogong involve big climbs for the best part of a day. Hotham / Loch/ McKay bring the exceptions. (Big vert bang for buck/effort).

Therefore the type of boot required/demanded in each state is very different.
That’s why NSW skiers should understand why many Vics cling to 75mm for now.

To chuck ones quiver of 75mm gear equates to madness - slogging around on flat groomed Xc trails with 5kg gear plus on each foot. Plus TXPros that impede movement.

Livre Le choice I say! (Pls excuse my Francois d’col) :oops:

And hurry up Scarpa! :mad: My knees won’t last forever! ;)
 
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