Observations 31st July-6th August Systems

mick chopps

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Jun 22, 2006
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Falls and Hotham getting pretty much the same numbers at NSW so far.

Buller have either been really luck of the rain gauge is broken, reading only ~4mm since 9am.
 
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blueandwhite

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Falls and Hotham getting pretty much the same numbers at NSW so far.

Buller have either been really luck of the rain gauge is broken, reading only ~4mm since 9am.
I'm on site and it's been almost entirely dry. Lucky so far. For comparison the Baw Baw obs are showing very little rain as well.

The Buller can only seems to work properly once we get into positive temperatures - which we are comfortably now and have been for more than 24 hours - so I think todays reading is legit.
 

SkiMountaineer

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Newcastle NSW
16595630099235185185138425242181.jpg

Plenty of water around
 

Formally_FS04

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Dunno bout you, but 'classic' to me implies that it's a characteristic of the climate. And rain is far from the norm on the AU Alps most winters—the grand majority of winter precip is in the form of snow, even in lower places like Cabramurra.

Let's hope your post was a joke…otherwise you risk looking like a dumb tourist.

Been heading down since '96. It was more a piss-take, just shows how fickle the Aussie ski season is when it rains in early August, typically peak time when you get charged unbelievably high amounts of coin to ski ice, slush and rain affected 'cover' :D

Anyway back on topic, Perisher cams appear to be showing the cover holding up fairly well, apart from Smiggs which looks to have copped the worst of it....overall I'd say it doesn't look too bad.....yet......still have to get through today.....tomorrow morning could paint a much uglier picture.....
 

mick chopps

Pool Room
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Jun 22, 2006
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It’s not luck, it rains less at Buller than all the other resorts for exactly the same reason it snows less - less precip overall.

Happens every time there is an Armageddon-type washout but nobody listens to me because it’s too confrontational to their world view.
I think it's a broadly accepted view, however this is waaaaaaay down on the usual "buller gets less" type numbers. <10% of everyone else.

Buller gets less, in this instance they got lucky and got waaaaaay less.

whynotboth.gif
 
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CarveMan

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May 12, 2000
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I think it's a broadly accepted view, however this is waaaaaaay down on the usual "buller gets less" type numbers. <10% of everyone else.

Buller gets less, in this instance they got lucky and got waaaaaay less.

whynotboth.gif
Lol the undeniable truth that Buller gets way less rain than the other resorts is not a broadly accepted view!

But it also dodges bullets during rain-mageddon events to a disproportionate extent compared to its overall lower precip levels. If I could be bothered I’d dig up some evidence but the ‘Lake Perisher’ event was definitely one.
 

Jimi

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Lol the undeniable truth that Buller gets way less rain than the other resorts is not a broadly accepted view!

But it also dodges bullets during rain-mageddon events to a disproportionate extent compared to its overall lower precip levels. If I could be bothered I’d dig up some evidence but the ‘Lake Perisher’ event was definitely one.
Just as well. There’d be no resort there otherwise
 
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iagreewithhim

Blessed are the bignoses
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Sep 3, 2001
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A very long way from everybody
Wild night at Island Bend last night. Pretty much continuous donner & blitzen from about 11pm, including one blast that sounded like a bomb going off directly above my roof. Rain at times like I've never experienced, at least not under canvas. A lot less windy than the night before. Still a bit of rain and the odd roll of thunder around.
 

mick chopps

Pool Room
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Jun 22, 2006
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Lol the undeniable truth that Buller gets way less rain than the other resorts is not a broadly accepted view!

But it also dodges bullets during rain-mageddon events to a disproportionate extent compared to its overall lower precip levels. If I could be bothered I’d dig up some evidence but the ‘Lake Perisher’ event was definitely one.
I accept it. ;)
 

xuěboarder

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Apr 23, 2016
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Rain turned to winter mix at around 10pm at Hotham. Absolutely phenomenal lights show from around 8-2am. Raining now.
 
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Vandans

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Aug 15, 2012
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Can confirm miserable at PV with r*** heavy at times but also stopping occasionally. View outside our room shows damage to cover at Village level. Front Valley still all white though

20220804_075647.jpg
The snow is on bitumen and other hard surfaces so expected
 
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Ian

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Oct 2, 2002
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Dunno bout you, but 'classic' to me implies that it's a characteristic of the climate. And rain is far from the norm on the AU Alps most winters—the grand majority of winter precip is in the form of snow, even in lower places like Cabramurra.

Let's hope your post was a joke…otherwise you risk looking like a dumb tourist.
Back in the day, 1980's, I remember sitting on the Thredbo lift in the r@*n thinking I should 'splash out' on some new fangled GoreTex gear. The next year it performed very well in the r@*n at Buller, comfy and warm with it turning to ice on the outside of the jacket, spalling off in large plates.

I now prefer to experience clear snow from inside my ski lodge, with a nice hot cup of tea.

lodge_view_22.jpeg


Good to see...

Screen Shot 2022-08-04 at 10.59.56 am.png
 

BlueHue

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Apr 17, 2003
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Nothing worse than agiant
Your'e right & Burn't hut generally doesn't need a huge snowfall to repair. Hopefully some snowmaking in a few days too.
Snowmaking conditions is probably the big one here. Higher areas after last Sundays snowfall and snowfalls to follow this rain should see snow cover still looking pretty decent by the time this storm cycle is done (know idea personally what it means for Buller).

Lower areas however might be getting pretty stuffed up by the end of this but luckily snow cover in these places often has more to do with snowmaking conditions in recent days/weeks then natural snow that's managed to stick over a season. Lost man made snow might limit how far these areas can extend into September but some cold nights should at least get them back on track for August (assuming no more big rain events).
 
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SMSkier

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It’s flowing… However I still think that above 1850 ASL (PV) has enough recent new cover to defend itself. Time will tell.



6268888D-6EE2-47C0-84A3-16DF4D249C78.jpeg


Just for reference…..Above pic is Perisher Creek. Most here probably realise that.

This below pic is the snowplay area and is roughly about 1710 ASL.

DFDB39EF-DF8C-4615-A163-BADD891DD30E.jpeg
 

Dave Clark

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Jun 20, 2005
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I'm on site and it's been almost entirely dry. Lucky so far. For comparison the Baw Baw obs are showing very little rain as well.

The Buller can only seems to work properly once we get into positive temperatures - which we are comfortably now and have been for more than 24 hours - so I think todays reading is legit.
It's legit.

According to the gauges Buller lost 5-7cm in the past 24hrs.
 

trappers

Safety not guaranteed
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Unfortunately I observe accurate readings in the Thredbo Top Station rain gauge.
94.6 mm of above zero rain since Tuesday.

Now one of the other problems is that it is not just slightly above zero ... it is a LONG way above zero. This means there is a lot more energy in the rainwater to melt the snow...

So I did some sums as it has averaged around 4.5 °C

essentially this multiplies the snow loss by ~5 :(

1659580404205.png
 

trappers

Safety not guaranteed
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94.6 mm of above zero rain since Tuesday.

Now one of the other problems is that it is not just slightly above zero ... it is a LONG way above zero. This means there is a lot more energy in the rainwater to melt the snow...

So I did some sums as it has averaged around 4.5 °C

essentially this multiplies the snow loss by ~5 :(

1659580404205.png
Just a quick comment on the above, the actual depth loss will be a lot less than this because the rain acts to compress / consolidate the snow pack so therefore the 10:1 ratio is probably more like 5:1 ... but you can not avoid the physics. The mass loss of frozen water is considerably greater for this event than others.
 
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weathersourse

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94.6 mm of above zero rain since Tuesday.

Now one of the other problems is that it is not just slightly above zero ... it is a LONG way above zero. This means there is a lot more energy in the rainwater to melt the snow...

So I did some sums as it has averaged around 4.5 °C

essentially this multiplies the snow loss by ~5 :(

1659580404205.png
Humm you blinded em with science trappers.
 

trappers

Safety not guaranteed
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Jul 28, 1999
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Also makes the assumption that the thermal energy of the water is transmitted completely to the snow, which is incorrect. A large proportion of the water runs off, which minimises interaction and thermal transfer. There is also the assumption that the falling water is at the same temperature as the ambient temperature, which is almost certainly not correct.

However, I get your point, even if the calculations are imperfect ;)
Actually most of the specific heat contained in the rain will be transferred almost immediately (within 1-2m). Once the water is at 0C it wont melt the ice any further, and will run off, but the heat has already been transferred. It is only if you get large rivers and the rain falls onto them that the heat will be carried (advected) from where it fell.

Absolutely the raindrops could be 1-2 C cooler than the surrounding air given the adiabatic lapse rate, but it wont be a huge difference.
 

lewis

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But the real damage is in the consolidation of the pack. A light fluffy snow pack may reduce to half the depth when rain strikes it even though only a little bit of the snow is melted.
I'm not sure much of the current snow pack could be described as light and fluffy with the previous rain... Probably a good thing though?
 
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