1. SPECIAL NOTE TO NEW REGISTRATIONS

    If you recently registered and have not received a confirmation email - please check your 'Spam or Junk' folders. Especially if your email is Hotmail. More help with confirmation issues

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Après topics or continue browsing and reading as a guest.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

Question 5:2 Diet

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by NewTurns, Aug 8, 2016.

  1. NewTurns

    NewTurns One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,446
    Likes Received:
    2,710
    Location:
    Sydney
    Anyone else tried this? Back up the hill in Sept and trying to lean up to improve the power to weight ratio for skinning.
     
  2. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    26,232
    Likes Received:
    16,039
    Location:
    Perth
    Intermittent fasting is great for a lot of things. Weight loss included.
    What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for everyone though. And be warned...500 calories is pretty minimal, it can be tough going if you are not fat adapted and already in ketosis.

    If you're not already doing it you might get better results with less effort sticking to a clean nutrient dense ketogenic diet.
     
    NewTurns and tdc like this.
  3. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    48,094
    Likes Received:
    18,497
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    I hear the 2:5 diet works faster
     
    piolet, NewTurns and benchives like this.
  4. Apresski

    Apresski Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Messages:
    47,580
    Likes Received:
    8,884
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I believe @markopolo was happy with the diet.
     
    NewTurns likes this.
  5. cruisin along

    cruisin along A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    7,685
    Likes Received:
    2,656
    Location:
    CC Terrigal area
    Work colleagues tried it for months and it took some weight off but the best one was Paleo for seeing folk slim down.
    Again it is purely individual choices as you have to stick to it quite rigidly.
     
    NewTurns likes this.
  6. NewTurns

    NewTurns One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,446
    Likes Received:
    2,710
    Location:
    Sydney
    The issue is sticking to anything. But I can do something a couple of days a week, but need the flex on weekends. Have been on it for about 12 weeks. Lost 6-7kgs so far... more to go. Trying to eat cleaner/less carbs now on the other days...the fast days and winter don't help fuel exercise though.
     
  7. socold

    socold A Local

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Messages:
    6,836
    Likes Received:
    1,945
    Location:
    Port Stephens
    Watch out for gout, it got me big time while on that diet
     
    NewTurns likes this.
  8. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    9,186
    Likes Received:
    3,957
    (Calories in) < (Calories out) = fat burned. Full stop.
     
    SnowBound, Rurik, Ricardo64 and 5 others like this.
  9. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    23,572
    Likes Received:
    8,715
    Location:
    Dunedin, NZ
    Yeah, just be more active.
     
  10. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    62,481
    Likes Received:
    37,005
    Location:
    The Southern Capital
    OP suggests an improvement in power:weight is the end goal

    So there's a desire to maintain current lean mass while losing body fat

    Getting the body into a caloric deficit is the big picture goal. But ignore your macros at your peril. Gotta be looking at around 1-1.25 grams of protein per pound of body mass, each day. So for a 100kg person, that's at least 220g a day. You want to minimise loss of muscle, because if you lose muscle, your metabolism slows as you lose weight.

    I prefer a 40:40:20 split in my macros. 40% protein, 40% carbs and 20% fats. While progressively reducing my calories, I reduce the carbs downwards. On your low activity days, you can also do this.

    Refeeds and such are also an important part of this.

    Stick to good quality carb sources. Brown rice, sweet potatoes are your friends here, except around training times. You don't want your insulin levels spiking massively.
     
    piolet, NewTurns and Seth like this.
  11. NewTurns

    NewTurns One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,446
    Likes Received:
    2,710
    Location:
    Sydney
    Agree to a point. For me it is the food more than activity. I did over 1200 days exercise in a row a few years back (OCD?) Lost a bit of weight but didnt/couldn't get it all off/keep it off... love food and beer and wine .... single focus now of lose fat...make it easier to exercise and improve agility etc etc... working so far..... like the comments on macros thanks too
     
  12. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    41,333
    Likes Received:
    19,929
    Location:
    The Higher Ground
    You'll never, ever out train a bad diet.

    Sounds like food, beer and wine are more important than getting lean. Cut out the last two and it'll make a difference.
     
    dr80, Draizuh, NewTurns and 4 others like this.
  13. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    62,481
    Likes Received:
    37,005
    Location:
    The Southern Capital
    As you do more exercise (especially steady state cardio), your body becomes much more efficient at it (and as you lose those initial kilos, your body doesn't require as much energy to fuel those training sessions). It becomes a matter of diminishing returns, and your body uses your energy more efficiently. I found the same thing with my weight loss earlier in the year when I was upping my running distances. The increase in activity level saw me lose some kilos initially, but then weight loss stalls as your body adjusts.

    Alcohol puts the brakes on fat loss.

    Once you turn your attention to your diet, you'll really start to cut into your stubborn fat deposits.
     
    Born2ski, LMB and Chowder11 like this.
  14. smackies

    smackies A Local

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2002
    Messages:
    7,694
    Likes Received:
    1,596
    Sacrilege!
     
    piolet, NewTurns and Pelm1 like this.
  15. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    62,481
    Likes Received:
    37,005
    Location:
    The Southern Capital
    It's a numbers game
    1kilo of body fat contains 37,000 kJ.
    If you want to lose 2kgs in 4 weeks, that's 74,000 kJ, or a kJ deficit of 2,640 per day.

    Fat is energy dense, with around 38 kJ per gram. Alcohol has 29 kJ per gram. Protein and carbs have only 17kJ per gram.
    Protein has the added benefit of increased levels of satiety over other macros. If you eat 50g worth of protein (let's say from eating a 260g chicken breast - around 960kJ), you're going to feel a lot fuller than if you eat the equivalent amount of carbohydrates (say, 70 g worth of Special K, which is around 1,100 kJ).

    The protein is muscle sparing too.
     
    piolet and Pelm1 like this.
  16. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    11,340
    Likes Received:
    6,365
    Location:
    Elwood
    HIIT is your best friend forever for weight loss.




    edit: Obviously with a good diet, as Edge has pointed out very well
     
  17. jonathanc

    jonathanc One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2014
    Messages:
    1,374
    Likes Received:
    1,669
    @Edgecrusher has given a pretty good overview of the “technical” stuff to consider.

    IMO the “practical” and psychological aspects are just as important to long-term diet compliance, e.g. getting those correct macros from meals that are tasty and convenient and getting the right mindset about eating and health in general.

    I've gone with a balanced approach and after losing 19kgs (got real fat after a string of major injuries and surgery) I've maintained a healthy weight/fitness level (I have high standards so for me that means abs and solid lifts on the powerlifts) for 4 years now, despite working in a job where I sit in an office for 9 hours a day 5 days per week.

    The short version is to make it easy for yourself, apply the 80/20 rule, don't set rules for yourself that are so tight as to be antisocial and don't develop negative attitudes about food or eating.
     
    The Plowking, Rolo, Pelm1 and 3 others like this.
  18. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    11,340
    Likes Received:
    6,365
    Location:
    Elwood
    Food is for fuel.

    Fuel your body with the correct foods and dont overflow the tank.
     
  19. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    23,572
    Likes Received:
    8,715
    Location:
    Dunedin, NZ
    Or suffer a decent injury/illness and subsequent surgery that requires you to endure a liquid diet for a few months.
     
    Draizuh likes this.
  20. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    62,481
    Likes Received:
    37,005
    Location:
    The Southern Capital
    I've probably taken it a bit further than most people - I plan out all my meals, and weigh everything (which my gf hates). I've subsequently reduced my portion sizes. Looking back, i realise just how much I was eating (and how much energy I was getting in).
    However, I don't find myself getting terribly hungry, except after training sessions (which is to be expected). I started off with 2 weeks of 10,000 kJ, then 9,500kJ, 9,000kJ, and right down to 8,500kJ. Cutting out junk was difficult initially, especially that sugar hit, but now, I find I don't even want it any more. You do find yourself noticing the changes - energy levels are much better. I probably get in a better range of nutrients, vitamins and minerals now that I eat lots of vegetables. Last week I had a week's worth of stir fries for lunch. They were around 2,200kJ, but each day's lunch was around 1kg of food.
    I actually found myself struggling to eat all that food.
     
  21. DJM

    DJM One of Us

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    3,713
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    Location:
    sydney
    Eat dirty and train like a Mo Fo. Hurt yourself regularly for long periods.
     
  22. Snorkler

    Snorkler Part of the Furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1970
    Messages:
    18,271
    Likes Received:
    547
    Location:
    Melbourne, Vic
    That's the beauty of following the 5:2 the best. The trick to it is to keep the protein content high and reduce the carbs and fats. It has a double effect, retaining muscle and protein makes you feel full longer. It should also increase the amount of vegetables eaten as these can create bulk in food content with a low cost on energy consumption.
     
  23. jonathanc

    jonathanc One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2014
    Messages:
    1,374
    Likes Received:
    1,669
    Planning is one of the key aspects IMO. Most pre-made food is so calorie dense that it is really easy to over eat.

    Bulking meals up with veggies is the best trick. I can eat an incredible amount of food in one sitting, so leafy greens are great for making huge meals with hardly any extra calories.
     
    Born2ski and Edgecrusher like this.
  24. Snorkler

    Snorkler Part of the Furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1970
    Messages:
    18,271
    Likes Received:
    547
    Location:
    Melbourne, Vic
    It is possible to eat low calorie food and yet have it really tasty. If one tries the 5:2 by just calorie counting, there's a good chance they will tire of it quickly due to a lack of good taste and quantity. There are some good books out there with calorie counted meals that are great and surprisingly will make one feel quite sated. Create a repertoire of tasty meals and it's not that hard to do.
     
    jonathanc, Edgecrusher and Chowder11 like this.
  25. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    41,333
    Likes Received:
    19,929
    Location:
    The Higher Ground
    We have an endless supply of Arnotts Assorted Creams in the office. Took much will power to learn to be able to look at them without grabbing 2-3 each time. :eek::cry:
     
    piolet, LMB, Pelm1 and 1 other person like this.
  26. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    11,340
    Likes Received:
    6,365
    Location:
    Elwood
    Its about educating yourself and being able to know what you can and cant eat.
    You dont need to go to Edge extreme's and weight and prep every meal. Helps a lot, but its not 100% necessary.

    I eat lunch from a food court pretty much everyday (work days), but I know what to look for and I get my necessary Macro's pretty much on point.
     
  27. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    62,481
    Likes Received:
    37,005
    Location:
    The Southern Capital
    Dem Kingstons and Monte Carlos...I completely understand.
    In order to deal with "boredom eating" at work, I drink lots of cups of tea, without sugar or milk. I can understand why people take up smoking.
     
    piolet, LMB, Seth and 1 other person like this.
  28. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    11,340
    Likes Received:
    6,365
    Location:
    Elwood
    Same, i have a nice little collection of teas in my draw.
     
  29. luvthabumps

    luvthabumps A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    8,692
    Likes Received:
    3,461
    Location:
    Back in MEL ( with annual trips to the 604 )
    did the 5:2 for a while - more so for the supposed overall health benefits. Haven't been able to stick to it but having to work to a nutrition plan for jnr miss LTB has helped all of us with leaning up our diet. We've always eaten well but like Edge, now have reduced portion sizes, in particular meat portions. I love how when you go to the butcher they are recommending serving sizes of 250-300g meat per adult - we keep ours to about 140-150 at evening meals. Ditto on the good carbs - sweet potato, black quinoa are our faves ATM. I'm sitting at about 83kgs and 191cm. I could easily drop a few more kegs if I stopped drinking wine every day. Probably should but, once again, more so for the health benefit rather than weight loss.

    I know of quite a few people who are doing the 5:2 and it's not having any noticeable effect on their weight that I can can observe but they do say they feel like they have more energy generally.
     
  30. Ralph_implement

    Ralph_implement A Local

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    8,474
    Likes Received:
    5,186
    Mad mex FTW.

    A dose of that and I can lose half a keg taking a dump!
     
    NewTurns, piolet, Red_switch and 2 others like this.
  31. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    62,481
    Likes Received:
    37,005
    Location:
    The Southern Capital
    Lawl.
    I had GYG as a cheat meal on Friday night with plenty of hot sauce. That seemed to have a similar effect.
     
    piolet and Ralph_implement like this.
  32. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    48,094
    Likes Received:
    18,497
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    I spike my insulin all the time ;) LOL
     
    Edgecrusher likes this.
  33. Snorkler

    Snorkler Part of the Furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1970
    Messages:
    18,271
    Likes Received:
    547
    Location:
    Melbourne, Vic
    I usually calculate 200g per person when I cook but even then I know that we only need the amount that you get. Anymore is really a waste of protein as it gets excreted.
     
  34. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    16,615
    Likes Received:
    8,099
    Location:
    melbourne
    Theres the andy kirkpatrick diet - Get fat before a big climb, and then hardly eat for 2 weeks on the climb, hate yourself for the first week, dont shit (handy on a big wall), and by the end he's ripped as. Repeat.
     
  35. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    48,094
    Likes Received:
    18,497
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    there's a lot more focus these days on weight training and muscle mass, compared to the aerobic-style attack of the 80s.

    Muscles continue to burn calories even when you are asleep, so more muscle mass means you can eat more without adverse consequence, or burn those wobbly bums and thighs whilst sleeping
     
    LMB and Edgecrusher like this.
  36. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    62,481
    Likes Received:
    37,005
    Location:
    The Southern Capital
    It has a lot to do with body composition.
    abs aren't really made in the gym, but in the kitchen.
    If you're training in the weights room and trying to maintain your strength, your body is doing its best to maintain the muscle it has because you've provided a training stimulus to keep reminding the body that it has a reason to keep that muscle mass, which is metabolically expensive.

    I'm guessing you've heard all about it, many times over, with your boys and their bodybuilding exploits?
     
  37. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    11,340
    Likes Received:
    6,365
    Location:
    Elwood
    Thats it.
    You see junkies with Abs because of such low body fat.

    I tend to explain it by thinking of you body as a car engine. A v8 is going to burn more fuel than a v6 or v4.
     
  38. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    48,094
    Likes Received:
    18,497
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    Yep. apparently as we age, we lose about 0.5kg of muscle mass each year once we hit mid-20s if we dont train appropriately.

    the interesting snippet I learned from my son was about the 6 meals a day.

    I always presumed it was about spreading the calories more evenly.

    However, Kyle advised its about teaching your body to become hungry every 2 hours, and then when you are asleep at night, your body still gets hungry and has to burn fat because you are not feeding it then.
     
  39. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    62,481
    Likes Received:
    37,005
    Location:
    The Southern Capital
    That's an interesting approach.
    I've also read about the 5-6 meals and the need to spread your 30-odd grams of protein across those meals, because that's around how much the body can process and use at any one time, and to allow a steady supply of amino acids entering the bloodstream and getting to muscle tissue for protein synthesis.
     
  40. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    48,094
    Likes Received:
    18,497
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    yeah that was my original thought too.

    Both theories are probably correct and fuel the ultimate goal
     
  41. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    26,232
    Likes Received:
    16,039
    Location:
    Perth
    Biggest deception in the diet industry.

    The problem is some bodies burn SFA calories even with reasonable exercise. And some are in complete dysfunction. Yes - it's true a caloric deficit is required for fat loss - but there is a hell of a lot of biohacking that can be done to improve the result, especially if you are not seeing the results you'd expect. If you've got a decent metabolism and never been plagued with weight issues, it would seem like a simple equation. For many it's not so simple.

    Ain't that the truth @NewTurns !! Plus I've been FREEZING!! 500 calories does not make for efficient internal combustion :confused:

    THIS ^
    100%


    I've found a huge improvement in my internal temperature regulation, training strength, explosive power, stamina and recovery ability since moving to a higher caloric intake and increasing the good fats. (Weight is staying stable/size is continuing to change) If you are wanting to maintain the power in that power:weight ratio Id be looking at a Paleo like option rather than 5:2. JMHO
     
    NewTurns likes this.
  42. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    41,333
    Likes Received:
    19,929
    Location:
    The Higher Ground
    i suspect the overwhelming majority of people who use 'medical reasons' for not losing weight are not truthful when it comes to their intake of calories.

    It isn't a deception, it is an irrefutable truth. Most people are just full of shite.

    if 99% of people ate the right food and did an appropriate amount of exercise we would not have an obesity problem.
     
    Red_switch and Edgecrusher like this.
  43. Snorkler

    Snorkler Part of the Furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1970
    Messages:
    18,271
    Likes Received:
    547
    Location:
    Melbourne, Vic
    Metabolism is metabolism, no one has a good or bad metabolism. Metabolism is the use of energy by cells. The composition of cells in your body is what uses more energy as there can be more cells that use more energy, like muscle and brain. Svelte people stay svelte for generally one of two reasons if not both, they physically use the energy they consume and they have an eating pattern that is much better than bigger people.
     
    Seth likes this.
  44. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    41,333
    Likes Received:
    19,929
    Location:
    The Higher Ground
    Best thing @NewTurns could do to get lean is to start eating right and go skiing more.
     
    NewTurns and Edgecrusher like this.
  45. Bloke

    Bloke One of Us

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2011
    Messages:
    834
    Likes Received:
    1,205
    Location:
    Sydney
    Less fad more train imo

    Lots of hills and stair running is a great place to start
     
    NewTurns and DJM like this.
  46. Born2ski

    Born2ski Part of the Furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    15,492
    Likes Received:
    5,170
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I went on the 5:2 diet nearly 2 years ago, lost 8 kg in the first 12 weeks and reached my target weight. I'm still on the diet but have slightly modified it to have a few more calories on my fast days otherwise I would have kept losing too much weight ! My body fat has dropped, scans show I no longer have a fatty liver and my high cholesterol has dropped down to the normal range.

    Wife has been on it now for 6 weeks and lost 4.5kg.

    Works for us because it's only 2 days a week where you really have to watch what you eat, the rest of the time you can be more relaxed and eat what you want. Of course we still aim for a healthy diet on the other days but you're not counting every calorie or watching everything you put in your mouth, so you can still enjoy life.
     
    NewTurns likes this.
  47. DJM

    DJM One of Us

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    3,713
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    Location:
    sydney
    Yep, I agree.

    The strongest and most efficient I've ever felt in the backcountry was eating whatever I wanted but training hard. Eating dirty doesn't mean KFC etc all the time....Just at the right time. It's hard to know if/what type of dietary approach is what Newturns should focus on without seeing the physical and mental specimen in the flesh.

    I'm always hesitant when people start thinking diets are the best starting point when strength and cardio would be more beneficial before fine tuning with food. Of course if you are well overweight it may be good to ease into a diet but if you have time on your side, shocking the body with a big reduction in calories and high workload may lead to failure on several levels.

    Skinning (lapping out lines) in the backcountry with a small load is a combination of good cardio but also well rounded strength. Age obviously plays a role but there are plenty of over 50's in the BC that kill it during the day and chug down a good feed and several beers every day.

    If you're limited on time....cram. In 30 minutes at home I can near on destroy myself with simple freeweights (heavy dumbells) and floor exercise. Gym not required.

    Consistency and mixed training
     
    NewTurns likes this.
  48. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    48,094
    Likes Received:
    18,497
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
  49. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    23,572
    Likes Received:
    8,715
    Location:
    Dunedin, NZ
    Nah. The fitness industry is ****ed. Seriously.
     
    Telemark Phat likes this.
  50. expatgm

    expatgm Addicted Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2014
    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    212
    Location:
    Queenstown
    Lifestyle and all that encompasses, not just one thing.