1. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Apr├Ęs topics or continue browsing and reading as a guest.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

Question 5:2 Diet

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by NewTurns, Aug 8, 2016.

  1. skichic

    skichic A Local

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    7,717
    Likes Received:
    1,773
    Mmmmm. And because it is mandatory to ski with mini chocolate bars in your pocket.
     
  2. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    11,554
    Likes Received:
    6,612
    Location:
    Elwood
    Nothing wrong with treating yourself.
    Your not going to sit down and eat all that. Or eat it everyday though.

    I make my own chocolate with coconut oil, maple syrup, frozen berries, cacao powder, shaved coconut and almond butter. Yumo and no processed refined sugar to be seen.
     
    LMB likes this.
  3. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    17,026
    Likes Received:
    8,845
    Location:
    melbourne
    i eat generally ok with little fast food and just do lots of exercise, which uses up time i could be eating

    probably the biggest weight drop i had was when i quit sugar in coffee

    i'm averaging around 14000-15000 steps a day, more than half of which is running. the step counter on my watch has helped with this and i walk to alot of meetings now, when once i would have ridden my pushy
     
  4. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,102
    Likes Received:
    17,320
    Location:
    Perth
    I use a similar recipe.
    Much prefer it to a normal sugary block now - and there's no feeling of wanting to down the whole block like you can get with regular chocolate.
     
    Chowder11 likes this.
  5. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    11,554
    Likes Received:
    6,612
    Location:
    Elwood
    I did the nutrition info on the home made chocolate vs a regular fruit and nut style cadbury.
    Half the calories, half the carbs, higher fat content, but it is all "good fats" due to the coconut oil and almond butter (I use a 100% almond one).
    You could easily put an unflavoured protein power in also and turn it into high protein, high "good fat" chocolate. And you could take the Maple syrup out and it would be even lower in carbs also.

    And I agree, because it is so rich, there is no cravings to demolish the whole block.
    Plus it tastes even better because you made it.
     
  6. Ralph_implement

    Ralph_implement A Local

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    8,474
    Likes Received:
    5,187
  7. BoofHead

    BoofHead One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,312
    Likes Received:
    1,214
    Location:
    Brisbane
    OK. Im making some of that. Probably ditch the syrup though. Have some coconut flavoured plant protein powder in the family stack so might add that.
     
    Chowder11 likes this.
  8. DJM

    DJM One of Us

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    3,713
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    Location:
    sydney
    Doing that (all the things you don't recommend) was my recipe for success for many years. It worked well. Turn up the idle screw. :)
     
    #158 DJM, Oct 25, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  9. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    17,026
    Likes Received:
    8,845
    Location:
    melbourne
    haha yeah me too! some things on that list still show up from time to time
     
    DJM likes this.
  10. gettingtooold

    gettingtooold One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    4,038
    Likes Received:
    2,589
    Location:
    geelong
    When you do physical work it does make a huge difference when considering calorie intake and energy used during the work day. My other half is extremely health conscious, so different from me, and estimated that I burn between 7 to 9k calories per work day. I eat lots of lean meat, salads and veg in my diet supplemented by several beers after work and a few treats and cannot put weight on. I might add I eat much less during the days not working, only eat when I'm hungry and not at certain times every day, like a good pizza but no other junk food and not a sweet tooth. Reckon a lot of problems occur due to the easy access to convenience / comfort food , sedentary work and a bit of self control. Just my theory.
     
  11. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,102
    Likes Received:
    17,320
    Location:
    Perth
    7000-9000 calories a day?!?!?
    JESUS!!!
    What on earth are you doing?!
     
    NewTurns likes this.
  12. Summit

    Summit Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    20,394
    Likes Received:
    5,234
    Location:
    Perth
    I started the 5:2 diet in January and it works very well for me. No energy fade outs or hunger pains, with the huge benefit being that it had the immediate effect of shrinking my stomach capacity, so even on non fasting days I don't eat as much as I used to before starting the diet. I'm only about 6kg lighter at the moment, but haven't done much exercise in the last month or so. Expecting to quite easily lose another 4kg getting fitter leading up to Christmas.

    Very interesting responses from two different doctors when I told them. One said he doesn't believe in diets because you just get back to old habits after ceasing the diet, but my usual GP said it's a great idea on the basis that you need to do something to reduce stomach capacity, so whatever works.
     
    NewTurns likes this.
  13. DJM

    DJM One of Us

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    3,713
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    Location:
    sydney
    Kj. .?
     
    NewTurns likes this.
  14. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,102
    Likes Received:
    17,320
    Location:
    Perth
    Gotta be.
    But I'd do that in a day, often more, it's a decent number but not what I'd call massive.
     
    NewTurns likes this.
  15. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    11,554
    Likes Received:
    6,612
    Location:
    Elwood
    Good idea.
     
  16. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly What a plonker. Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    8,272
    Likes Received:
    8,583
    Location:
    Hunter Valley Whine Country, NSW
    I suspect KJ too, but I think the key is "per work day". Could be that many KJ while working on top of BMR?
     
    NewTurns likes this.
  17. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,102
    Likes Received:
    17,320
    Location:
    Perth
    Feasible.
     
  18. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    5,948
    Likes Received:
    5,369
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I used to do all the bad things but I have seen de light some 12 years ago .
     
  19. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,102
    Likes Received:
    17,320
    Location:
    Perth
    Was there a specific catalyst for change?
     
  20. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    5,948
    Likes Received:
    5,369
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I had a nervous breakdown. I quit all the bad stuff and got super fit and healthy and got into the outdoors .I healed myself.
     
    NewTurns and LMB like this.
  21. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,102
    Likes Received:
    17,320
    Location:
    Perth
    Was chatting with a mate in NZ over the weekend whose catalyst was a massive heart attack 7 years ago - we both agreed that a major catalyst to change was a positive thing in our lives but jeez humans can be dumb! It takes a big hit to change. If only we could learn from the lessons of others! I'm sure the odd person does, but they are rare :thumbs:
     
    NewTurns likes this.
  22. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    5,948
    Likes Received:
    5,369
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Unless people have the living daylights scared out of them by an experience , usually a true near death experience that defies words or description in any language then they will usually go back to the bottle/ junk food/ no exercise/smoking/ drug abuse etc.
    People who fail to learn new ways to live and cope with the world as it is today will never get off the grog/ reefers/ deep fried whale blubber covered in icing sugar ;-P /smoking/ prescription pills/ TV/Gambling etc..People who have blind faith in doctors and the medical system in any shape or form will probably be worse off.

    Trust yourself and forge a better path.It takes a steely resolve to do this. Only the individual that takes full responsibility for their own well being will prosper in terms of health. Without one's health everything is cruel hoax.
     
    LMB likes this.
  23. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,102
    Likes Received:
    17,320
    Location:
    Perth
    ^ I like this guy!
     
  24. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    17,978
    Likes Received:
    12,658
    Location:
    Jindabyne
    Coconut oil is probably better than blended veg oil (the fat used in most chocolate), but claiming it to be a "good" fat is dubious at best.
     
    #174 Telemark Phat, Oct 26, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
    marv hucker and skifree like this.
  25. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    17,978
    Likes Received:
    12,658
    Location:
    Jindabyne
    This thread is about to become the Dr Google thread.
     
  26. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    11,554
    Likes Received:
    6,612
    Location:
    Elwood
    Don't be scared of the word 'fat'.
    Just realise the difference between different kinds of fats and what is good and bad for you.
    Coconut oil is in the "good" fats classification. It is a "good" fat because it promotes HCL and lowers LDL's in your body.
    And no I didnt need to Dr Google that, I have educated myself on these things over the years. But everyone else can if they want to understand.

    I eat a lot of "good" fats, including coconut oil, nuts, avo's etc.... and my cholesterol is excellent.
     
    Edgecrusher and LMB like this.
  27. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,102
    Likes Received:
    17,320
    Location:
    Perth
    No it's not.

    It's about working with all the available information (including the help of health professionals) to find out what works for you, a unique set of genetic combinations with a unique set of lifetime exposures, to get the best result you can in the current living environment. That's different for everyone.

    5:2 works for some. Not for others.
    Coconut oil is good for some; not for so much for others. I'm good with coconut oil.

    What I particularly like here is the willingness and open mindedness to say 'yep,that's working well for me' or 'nope, doesn't suit me - I'm changing it - no matter how much effort'.
     
  28. BoofHead

    BoofHead One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,312
    Likes Received:
    1,214
    Location:
    Brisbane
    yep. coconut oil, avo, almonds, etc. all good fats and a required macro.
    Just have to keep an eye on quantities as oils good or bad are very high in calories.
    Of course macro percentages aren't set in concrete and vary with your goals, age, level of training etc.
     
  29. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    17,978
    Likes Received:
    12,658
    Location:
    Jindabyne
    Can you point me to any literature which backs up your claim of Coconut oil lowering LDL. From what I've read it raises both HCL and LDL.

    Whilst your individual experience is fine, its no evidence for the "goodness" of coconut oil.
     
    Born2ski likes this.
  30. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    17,978
    Likes Received:
    12,658
    Location:
    Jindabyne
    There is no convincing evidence that Coconut Oil is "good" for you. Its not the best fat out there and its not the worst, it however is certainly no Extra Virgin Olive Oil.
     
    Born2ski likes this.
  31. BoofHead

    BoofHead One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,312
    Likes Received:
    1,214
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Olive oil for the win.


    Nutrition Faceoff: Virgin Coconut Oil vs. Olive Oil
    Virgin Coconut Oil Olive Oil
    Serving Size
    1 tbsp 1 tbsp
    Calories 117 kcal 1 19 kcal
    Total Fat 13.6 g 13.5 g
    Saturated Fat 11.8 g 1.9 g
    Monounsaturated Fat 0.8 g 9.9 g
    Polyunsaturated Fat 0.2 g 1.4 g

    Nutrition Faceoff: Virgin Coconut Oil vs. Olive Oil - Dietitian's Take

    These two oils have pretty much the same caloric and total fat amount. The difference lies in the proportion of saturated vs. unsaturated fatty acids. Coconut oil is made up mostly of saturated fatty acids, while olive oil is predominantly monounsaturated fatty acids.

    Virgin coconut oil is different from the regular coconut oil you see listed on the ingredient label of processed foods. Virgin coconut oil contains polyphenols, which in other plant-based consumables such as red wine, chocolate, or tea have been associated with antioxidant and anti-inflammatory effects. On the other hand, the coconut oil used in packaged food is basically the saturated fat component of coconut oil and nothing else.

    Our Pick: Olive Oil
     
    Telemark Phat likes this.
  32. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    26,338
    Likes Received:
    30,510
  33. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,102
    Likes Received:
    17,320
    Location:
    Perth
    Let's just agree that a homemade chocolate with good quality coconut oil, nuts, dried fruit, cacao, carob and maca powders, a tiny bit of raw honey (the recipe I use) is better for your body overall that downing a block of Cadbury.

    Olive oil rocks! But it tastes shit in chocolate.

    Not that I'm eating that regularly - it's all about balance - and balance for your individual needs. (Today I've eaten one queen garnet plum, 2 tablespoons of natural yogurt, an almond milk chia pudding with cacao, 2 small lattes, and an apple. I'm happy with that so far)
     
  34. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    11,554
    Likes Received:
    6,612
    Location:
    Elwood
    Lets play Dr Google then and take 1 of the 1000000 legitimate articles/literature written by "health experts" also know as doctors, nutritionists etc....
    https://authoritynutrition.com/top-10-evidence-based-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil/
    This article written by some chap with a Medical degree
     
  35. BoofHead

    BoofHead One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,312
    Likes Received:
    1,214
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Mmmmm! Medium Chain Triglycerides
    [​IMG][​IMG][/URL][/IMG]
     
  36. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    48,975
    Likes Received:
    19,251
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    My son cooks with macadamia oil
     
    Chowder11 likes this.
  37. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    11,554
    Likes Received:
    6,612
    Location:
    Elwood
    I use it also occasionally, Nice with scrambled eggs.
    Need to make sure not to burn it though as it has a low burning point and burnt oil is not good for you.
     
  38. Born2ski

    Born2ski Part of the Furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    15,497
    Likes Received:
    5,180
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I find it amusing that every few years there's a new "superfood" that we must have in our diet but it's never something like a humble potato, always seems to be an expensive exotic food like the chia seed. Strange that. :whistle:
     
    Telemark Phat likes this.
  39. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,102
    Likes Received:
    17,320
    Location:
    Perth
    LOL
    Chia's last popular use was in Chia Pets!

    Hardly expensive and exotic.
    Especially as you only use a small amount in a recipe.

    Seriously B2S you've gotta be having a lend. The initial buy of ingredients for my 'chocolate' might've been on the exxy side. But the only thing I've had to replace so far was the dried cranberries - and I've made the recipe 6 times. Lasted 5-6 days being nibbled on by 5 people (eldest doesn't like it). I should run the math but I reckon it'd be as cheap, if not cheaper than any regular chocolate.

    (ooh just realised Ive used the cranberries in salads - so if I hadn't I'd probably have run out of nothing).
     
  40. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    17,978
    Likes Received:
    12,658
    Location:
    Jindabyne
    No disagreement there, compound chocolate is bum (chocolate made with emulsifiers and fats other than cocoa fats )

    That includes coconut oil ;)
     
  41. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    17,978
    Likes Received:
    12,658
    Location:
    Jindabyne
    Gunnars has a BSc, I have a BSc (Hons). If you want to appeal to authority you should defer to my analysis and abandon his obvious commercial interest. Nothing like fad foods to bring out the charlatans like Gunnars.

    You're going to need to produce some peer reviewed literature, preferably a meta analysis or a review by an rigorous authority. Not a blog by a charlatan like Gunnars.
     
    Red_switch and Born2ski like this.
  42. Born2ski

    Born2ski Part of the Furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    15,497
    Likes Received:
    5,180
    Location:
    Brisbane
    @Lady Mamabear

    When I see these claims of "superfoods" or amazing health benefits I like to see real life long term examples. So in other words show me a culture that uses coconut oil on a regular basis that has a long life expectancy and low disease levels ? Do the Japanese use it ? Is it part of the Mediterranean diet ?

    Just like we're told that white rice is not very good for us and we should eat brown rice, but the Japanese eat white rice for breakfast, lunch and dinner. They make noodles, desserts and sauces out of it, it's a major part of their diet. Yet according to some health experts they must be unhealthy idiots, but the reality is they are a people with a long life expectancy and few health issues.

    So who should I believe ? The health experts or thousands of years of Japanese history ?
     
  43. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    11,554
    Likes Received:
    6,612
    Location:
    Elwood
    LOL
    Similar qualifications. Completely different opinion. So who is correct.
    Must be you because the other guy is trying to make coin out of it.

    Give me a spell
     
  44. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    26,338
    Likes Received:
    30,510
    Palm oil is my superfood of choice, energy to burn baby! I add it to everything, even bacon. And its ecologically great for the planet too, that and beef patties is all you need.
     
    Telemark Phat likes this.
  45. AndrewA

    AndrewA One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    722
    Likes Received:
    627
    Location:
    Melbourne
     
  46. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    17,978
    Likes Received:
    12,658
    Location:
    Jindabyne
    So you don't understand the difference between a plain BSc and a BSc (Hons), reasonable enough. You were the one who started the appeal to authority argument, not me.

    Your choice of source to back up your pre-conceived opinion was a classic example of Dr Google by the way. Be ware of private and commercial blogs when establishing the validity of your source.

    In the context of my original point his argument for the effectiveness of Coconut oil in reducing LDL is weak. One study has a sample size of 40 which is too small to draw significant conclusions from. The other study uses an analog rather than people. Both are weak lines of evidence and do not assert that Coconut oil reduces LDL.

    I know that you won't like being proven wrong so I'll leave you to make your protest noise.

     
  47. AndrewA

    AndrewA One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    722
    Likes Received:
    627
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Oops, I am referring to Mr T's post, as per my response 2 above.

    This post has merit.

    So many of my patients expect a pill to "fix" them.

    For example, I'm always amazed how many people would prefer to take big doses of cholesterol lowering medication , rather than reducing their dietary intake of cholesterol rich food...

    We do need to learn new ways. We need to learn how to deal better with stress, especially with our "immediately available and immediate response needed" type lifestyle.

    I suppose that's really the major reason I enjoy being out somewhere "remote" - it allows me not to be "available". Having said this, the improved phone reception on Bogong has improved patient access to me, which I find annoying! It's getting a lot harder to honestly say you have been out of phone reception all weekend.

    A
     
    BoofHead and LMB like this.
  48. AndrewA

    AndrewA One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    722
    Likes Received:
    627
    Location:
    Melbourne
    PS - can someone post the recipe for home made " chocolate"?

    A
     
  49. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    22,769
    Likes Received:
    14,071
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    My doctor maintains that coconut oil is a factor in bringing on diabetes.

    Which is interesting given the amount of people who blog that use of coconut oil has helped control their diabetes, control their colesterol and any other bloody issue they can think of.

    That said it is curious that every ethic group that comes from a high coconut product usage, think Pacific islands for example, have very high incidence of diabetes in modern times.
     
    Born2ski and Telemark Phat like this.
  50. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,102
    Likes Received:
    17,320
    Location:
    Perth
    You believe what your body tells you after considering piles of research and anecdotal evidence (like the Japanese thriving on white rice).

    The problem with nutritional research is funding. Who is paying for it? Those with a vested interest in sales will pay for some research to support their claims, if there's big dollars in it. But generally it's poorly funded, so research groups are relatively few, relatively small and fraught with complicating factors. It's also very difficult to control for other dietary and lifestyle factors.

    Taking the white rice example:
    I've seen white rice not brown included in the Bulletproof diet, and the FODMAPS diet. I believe it is one of those bland innocuous foods that most tolerate, but being very starchy it's one that weight loss dieters tend to avoid.

    The below link is clearly from a website our @Telemark Phat would disagree with as a source of evidence. I'm not using it as such, but just as a demonstration that there are plenty of people who also believe as you do that there is greater merit in white rice over brown. http://www.ancestral-nutrition.com/why-white-rice-is-healthier-than-brown-rice/

    Do some reading and work out what is right FOR YOU.

    What I am doing changes constantly as I learn more, try new things, discard that which doesn't help, keep those I like. But I'm coming from an initial position of serious illness with GP and Specialist writing me off as 'suffering is the new normal'. A crappy, tired, painful, sickly future was not acceptable. So I made it **** right off!

    For a healthy young fit person - just live relatively clean, and get on top of any health issues before they escalate out of control.