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Question 5:2 Diet

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by NewTurns, Aug 8, 2016.

  1. marv hucker

    marv hucker One of Us

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    Jeeezus H Roosevelt Christ, where have you got this from???

    Coconut oil is one of the richest sources of saturated fats - aka the bad fats - we have. Higher than butter. It is not good for you. All the studies show it's still boosting the LDL cholesterol. Granted, if you're only having it in chocolate, in small quantities, it's probably not an issue, but it's still no better for you than butter, lard or goose fat would be.

    Again, hate to be facty.

    The WHO, FDA, heart foundation, dietitians association of Australia (your GP, public health guidelines, the local bowls club...) recommend avoiding saturated fats as much as possible.
     
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  2. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    The salad dodging bloatasaurus tribe are taking over. I am one of the fit and trim minority.
     
  3. NewTurns

    NewTurns One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    This bloke sounds well informed. Time to watch 36 mins.
     
  4. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sounds like your scared of the word fat.
     
  5. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    None of that listed group of noble health professionals do any hard touring with packs!!Team Bears say go the salami and bacon...yum yum!
     
  6. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    But those “fat burghers “are causing professionals some angst in Britain.
    Despatch those hooligan dieticians to the sewers at once!
     
  7. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Have you checked out Dr. Fung's book The Obesity Code from 2016? He is a Canadian-Chinese nephrologist who wanted to help his obese patients who were dealing with kidney failure. I read it about a year ago. Have found a couple other books on the topic since then and other sources of info about the benefits of fasting and the realities of the hormones related to weight gain and hunger. Have been playing with intermittent fasting a fair amount starting around June. Fully intend to continue because I feel better in assorted ways.

    The BBC documentary by Dr. Michael Moseley from 2012 is worth watching. I also have a link to a shorter video done by an Australian journalist in a blog entry (personal blog, no ads). I'm not a medical professional, just a retired Ph.D. biostatistician and ski nut who likes to travel. Being overweight has never been an issue for me. But the other benefits of fasting are very interesting for someone who is over 60.

    http://over50skifitness.blogspot.com/2018/09/intermittent-fasting-bbc-documentary.html
     
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  8. chrisj

    chrisj One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Great video. Seven years in, I can really recommend the 5:2. It works and it keeps on working and you get to eat whatever you like 5 days per week.
     
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  9. ShavedBadger

    ShavedBadger One of Us

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    Completely agree. A workmate told me about it back in 2013 and I've been on it ever since. What I find particularly amazing is the number of people who dismiss it as being "too hard" while trying and failing umpteen other diets over the same period...
     
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  10. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I eat the Indian Veg. diet. I eat a lot of wheat, rice and lentils , kidney beans, chick peas, vegies, fruits, many different spices, masses of natural plain yoghurt and drink a lot of water and green tea. It works for me. My overall blood test had my results showing above normal excellence in all body functions/readings. Swimming , cycling, hiking , XC skiing and surfing also help keep me in good health.
     
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  11. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    that has nothing to do with the 5:2 diet
     
  12. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I have no idea what the 5:2 diet is but the Indian Veg. diet is as old as the Hindu Scriptures are themselves and is a very healthy way to eat.
     
  13. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Interesting to listen to.

    One thing did confuse me though.

    He states in the first part that if you diet (while exercising), you will reduce your BMR, and with a reduced BMR, you will eventually put the weight back on.

    He then suggests that dieting alone will work, but I didnt follow why the BMR doesnt reduce when you are only dieting, but will when you exercise. He even went to say that the body isnt stupid and provides you extra energy (increased BMR), so you can go out and hunt the wooly mammoth - but surely that is the exercise?
     
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  14. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah, any diet plan that says don’t exercise loses my vote. Fair enough, don’t overdo it and pass out, but IMHO move it or lose it.
     
  15. chrisj

    chrisj One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Tying the threads together, I managed to get overweight on a vegetarian diet, until I took up the 5:2.
     
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  16. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    I managed to pile on the kilos with strict adherence to dieticians advice and prescribe diet for “rapid” weight loss.
    Just an efficient machine I guess - get maximum mileage to the gallon.
    Solution: ignore the people telling you how to do it and listen to your own body.
     
  17. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    This..... times lots.

    Yet people are sheep and want to follow and take the easy way
     
  18. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’ve found eating and drinking heaps while doing minimal exercise has been a great way to add kilos.
     
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  19. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    the other thing that is unclear is that if you are currently exercising, and want to lose weight - do you have to stop execrising for the fasting to work?
     
  20. chrisj

    chrisj One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I didn't get the feeling that he was saying you shouldn't exercise. He was saying that dieting (calorie restriction) and exercise alone often lead to regaining of weight due to slowing metabolism. On the other hand, according to him, fasting (not dieting) sends your body a message that it's time to go out and hunt for some food, so your body speeds your metabolism in anticipation of the hunt. I dunno, if he's right or wrong about that, but I can certainly say that intermittent fasting + exercise works fine for me and is ultimately the situation for which our bodies are best adapted (like any wild animal).
     
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  21. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

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    I remember from PE classes in high school, being taught that BMR is proportional to body mass.
     
  22. chrisj

    chrisj One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    That's BMI or are you being facetious?
     
  23. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

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    This. In spades.
     
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  24. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Neither.
     
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  25. chrisj

    chrisj One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    BMR = Basal Metabolic Rate
    BMI = Body Mass Index
    I hate acronyms.
     
  26. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes I did mean Basal Metabolic Rate.

    However some quick reading up reveals that the BMR calculation we did in PE class was a very rough approximation. Just weight times a constant. It's obviously a lot more complex than that. Non-fat mass, for starters, suggests that exercise that results in building muscle mass is beneficial for weight reduction...
     
  27. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Everything that I've learned about intermittent fasting in the last year has nothing to do with exercise. The point is that the benefits of fasting do not require exercise or a special diet. However, can enhance the benefits by also exercising or paying more attention to nutrition when choosing what to eat. But the key is to pay attention to WHEN eating happens and HOW LONG fasting occurs. Most proponents of fasting want people to stay well hydrated while in the fasted state. Ideally that is water, tea (no sugar, not fruit tea), coffee (no sugar, no cream/milk), or some bone broth.

    The other common methods for intermittent fasting are Alternate Day, One Meal A Day (OMAD), 16-8, or a 36-72 hour fast once a month. With OMAD, the idea is to eat a regular meal and snack(s) within a relatively short "window" of 4-5 hours. 16-8 means fasting 16 hours (including sleep time) and having an 8-hour window for eating. Alternate Day is skipping breakfast and lunch every other day.

    5-2 is what works best for Dr. Moseley, meaning fasting 2 non-consecutive days out of every 7.

     
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  28. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Here's an introduction (25 min) to intermittent fasting by a man in California who is definitely still exercising.



    From the text notes:
    So first off we're going to talk about what is intermittent fasting and why you shouldn't overthink it. We're going to talk about the basic benefits, not going to spend a whole lot of time on that because if you're watching this video, you're probably already interested, and your curiosity has been peaked because you know someone that has had crazy success with it. But we're going to talk about the physical benefits. In fact, fat loss and some muscle gain. We're going to talk about the mental, and the focus benefits. We're also going to talk about the cellular rejuvenation benefits, but again, not going to spend a lot of time there.

    Simply put, intermittent fasting isn't a diet. Intermittent fasting is a meal timing plan. So basically what you're doing is you're focusing on a specific period of time in which you are abstaining from food and abstaining from calories and then you have a set period of time in which you consolidate all of your food, all of your calories. You're basically going for an extended period of time and not eating fasting. And then you're going into a period of time where you are eating, your fed window. So one of the biggest problems that people make with fasting is they overthink it, okay?
     
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  29. chrisj

    chrisj One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sure. Intermittent fasting may not require exercise to maintain a reasonable body weight, but exercise confers substantial benefits of its own. Exercise is certainly not contraindicated when fasting.
     
  30. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    I find IF helps with management of the expression of my Lupus. Essentially IF plus Keto = well healthy LMB.
     
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  31. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I agree completely. Especially when the goal for someone over 60 is to be in the best shape possible for ski season.

    My personal experiment was a comparison during two summers. Both times I only wanted to lose a couple pounds (sorry, I'm American and think in pounds). My optimal weight (set weight) is about 112 lbs. First summer I did the usual approach using exercise and more attention to what I was eating. Lost the weight in a couple months. The next summer I'd already played with intermittent fasting on and off for a few months. Had a few weeks before summer started with lots of travel and put on a couple pounds. It took about 10 days to get back to my set weight using only intermittent fasting and no exercise because I was busy with other stuff. I was mostly doing 18-6 by skipping breakfast and not eating anything until mid-afternoon. In general, I didn't eat unless I was hungry.
     
    #281 MarzNC, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  32. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    for the "average" person perhaps.

    But its an understood fact that the higher the muscle mass/percentage of your overall weight, the higher the BMR
     
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  33. shauno

    shauno Addicted Ski Pass: Silver

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    I lost 25kg on the low carb diet it works thats for sure. But easy to put it back onto lol if you dont change your lifestyle some what.
     
  34. chrisj

    chrisj One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    And that's the advantage of intermittent fasting - the weight stays off as long as you keep it up.
     
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  35. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    this is wgere his presentation isnt clear, and his opening position almost contradicts his closing position.

    The only difference between dieting and fasting is the quantum.

    if the body is smart enough to adjust the BMR when dieting then surely it would learn after a short while that a 1 or 2 day period of fasting is soon followed by a meal, and there is no need to get prepped to wooly mammoth hunting
     
  36. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Keep scrolling down... :p
     
  37. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

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    The body's control systems interpret dieting as an extended period of low food availability, so adjust the BMR to conserve stored energy.

    5:2 would be close to Neolithic normal, alternating feast and famine, so the body keeps its stored energy available for quick release, e.g. for hunting.

    Hardly rocket surgery.
     
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  38. shauno

    shauno Addicted Ski Pass: Silver

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    BMI has real world consequences for me hence the drastic weight loss as I work offshore and on jobs in Asia you have to have a BMI of 35 or lower. So i had to drop the weight and got down to 31. Still need to drop it more.
     
  39. chrisj

    chrisj One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I guess dieting is about what and how much you eat. Fasting is about when you eat. Dunno about his theory, but I can aver fasting works and you're not always having to worry about what you are eating or how much.
     
  40. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    how do we even know what "neolithic normnal" is? Are you suggesting we actually know that prehistoric man typically ate 5 out of every 7 days?

    Theories at best
     
  41. shauno

    shauno Addicted Ski Pass: Silver

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    It gets hard when you like to drink and also like to eat for the pleasure of good food lol. As opposed to eating just to stay alive.
     
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  42. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Five coronas with two party pies!Man that’s some diet....we could give that a go at weekends !

    Is that what you dudes are on about?

    Man you guys must be doing a lot of chainsawing !
     

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  43. chrisj

    chrisj One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    It's all theories and dietary theories have a bad track record - remember when eggs and butter were the worst things in the world?
    That said, while we can't know if prehistoric man ate 5 out of every 7 days, we do know that always having plenty to eat is a recent development in human history. Agriculture appeared quite recently in our evolutionary history and we are still adapted primarily to millions of years as hunter gatherers. We don't have to speculate about prehistoric man to know about the hunter gatherer lifestyle as there are still people living it, in parts of New Guinea and South America and even in Arnhem Land.
    One thing we know about both hunters and gatherers is that the availability of food tends to be quite intermittent, depending on what happens to be in fruit or in seed or what you happen to have caught. Bill Gammage's wonderful book, The Biggest Estate on Earth, contains extensive accounts of the lifestyle and food-getting methods of indigenous Australians as observed by early explorers. It contains lots of references to periods when food was plentiful, such as the seasonal maturing of Bunya pine cones or the wallaby breeding season, interspersed with periods when food was scarce. Another thing that comes through is how struck the explorers were by what fine physical shape they all appeared to be in.
     
    #293 chrisj, Jan 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  44. Joe

    Joe One of Us

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    There was a time when a fat person was considered rich, people on social security are fatter then ever before.
     
  45. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I know this thread is about 5-2, which is what Dr. Moseley did.

    However, Dr. Fung's primary suggestion for intermittent fasting that he advocates for his patients is Alternating Days. That means skipping breakfast and lunch every other day for people who are obese and need/want to lose significant amounts of weight (>20 pounds) to avoid the complications of Type 2 diabetes, including kidney failure. (I know a lot about those issues, married to a man with a transplanted kidney and pancreas due to long term diabetes. He was diabetic before I met him.) If you were to read more by Dr. Fung or listen to other videos (there are dozens of interviews) then you would also find that he notes that the benefits of fasting for those who are insulin resistant occur with any type of intermittent fasting.

    Think about it, when did adults start to think that eating every 2-3 hours was needed for survival? Babies need to eat that often to grow. School children who eat 5-6 times a day because they eat three major meals a day and snack mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and before bedtime are much more likely to be overweight. Adults who drink sweet-tasting drinks all day long, whether diet or not, are often overweight. Those are realities that Dr. Fung started to think about a decade ago.

    For someone who does not have a weight problem like me, what I like about intermittent fasting is that after getting my body into a better state, I can lose the extra pound or two from eating more during the holidays or when I travel and want to enjoy good food eating out more often, it takes only a few days to get back to my set weight. Essentially not eating breakfast a few times a week is enough. Plus my waistline is noticeably thinner than a year or two ago, even though I'm about the same weight. That's because fasting decreases abdominal fat and eliminates the problem of a fatty liver. Learning how the liver works was a key piece of understanding the advantages of fasting in general.
     
  46. sly_karma

    sly_karma Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    After annual physical and lab work, I was confronted by fact: weight at 248 lb/112 kg for a BMI of 36. Yet most of the other markers were favourable: BP low, cholesterol and blood glucose both good, PSA and thyroid both fine. For the stuff that is 90% genetic and 10% diet, I got a winning hand. Doc challenged me: at 56, the only obvious negative in your health is something within your control, dont throw away a winning hand by being overweight.

    I did some reading and talked to a friend who had embarked on a similar journey a year earlier. I decided on ketogenic diet, have been on it 4 weeks now. The pleasant surprise was how quickly the food cravings disappear, I can go far longer between meals without thinking of food. Makes me realise how addictive carbs are, they are a cycle that demands constant renewal.

    Another surprise is that keto is mostly easy to follow. Meat, veges, salad, cheese... big deal if no potato or rice on the plate. More of a challenge for me is food on the go - everything is packaged up in a bun, a wrap or bread. I had long since been in the habit of eating while driving from on work site to another. Taking the time to stop and eat a salad has been good for me on more than a merely dietary level.

    Anyway I can see my waistline shrinking despite lots of bacon, cheese, eggs, cream and butter. I have a glass or two of wine a couple days a week and I had a couple of beers to celebrate the one month mark of low carb. As i become more understanding of the diet i might be able to nuance it and have a beer a couple times a week but for now I am pretty pure. I figure a year is needed to shed the 22-25 kg to target, plus I have to integrate increased exercise in that time as well (no change to that for now, I need to understand diet first). All the best to those also struggling with weight.
     
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  47. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I live on the Indian Veg. diet ( Daal, Rice, flat bread, yoghurt , vegies with spices, cups of tea , no grog ) and do a lot of exercise. I don't eat much sugary stuff or processed foods. My trousers keep falling down even with a belt.
     
  48. nfip

    nfip Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    * Not read the whole thread disclaimer.
    Just did a two week detox.
    Basically eliminates carbs dairy and red meat.
    Stayed off the grog for about 6 weeks
    Lost 4 kg .
    Felt awesome.
    Had a few b/day milestones of late , back on the beers at times.
    Will get back on the clean track from here tho want to lose another 3 or 4 kg to up the surf / ski fitness.
    I like the look of this , suits my lifestyle and is achievable.
    Also know of many peeps have had success .
    They calling it the Fast 800 diet these days.
    https://thefast800.com
     
    chicski likes this.