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Technical 5G Wireless May Lead to Inaccurate Weather Forecasts

Discussion in 'Daily & Chat' started by whynot, Oct 7, 2020.

  1. whynot

    whynot Addicted

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    Interesting.


    https://www.rutgers.edu/news/5g-wireless-may-lead-inaccurate-weather-forecasts
     
  2. Sbooker

    Sbooker One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    They're now accurate?
     
  3. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    This article doesn't tell you what it needs to tell you, and in fact, it's a little misleading.
    - For example, it says "5G", and yet it doesn't say the frequency in questions (The concern is actually 23.8GHz, which is the one of the frequencies used by satellites for passive measurement of Precipitable Water Vapor [PWV] )
    - It says that "a decibel Watt is a unit of power that describes the strength of radio waves". This is not specifically correct: Decibel Watt (dBW) is a unit for the measurement of the strength of a signal expressed in decibels relative to one Watt. Decibels are a RELATIVE measurement, not an absolute measurement. (Hence -15 to -20 decibel Watts can be used to describe the "leakage" relative to the main intended field strength)

    - The graphic from the article implies that 5G interferes with the clouds.


    However, the "leakage" noise might mask the 23.8GHz absorption from the water vapor picked up by the satellites.

    The worry is at the 5G K-Band(n258) at 24.25GHz – 27.50GHz, at the lower end, because 24.25GHz is close to 23.8GHz.
    But 5G doesn't use n258 right now. It's possible it could be problem when it does. Most current 5G frequency bands are below 3.6GHz.

    It's more of an issue in the USA, where the FCC auction set a noise limit on the US 5G networks of –20 dBW, which is much noisier than the thresholds under consideration by almost every other country for their systems. The European Commission, for example, has settled on –42 dBW for 5G base stations, and the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) is recommending –55 dBW.
    However, the main 5G vendors (Ericsson, Samsung, Nokia, Huawei, and a couple of others) are likely to design to the -42dBW, to rationalise the production of radios.
     
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  4. Jasper Schwarz

    Jasper Schwarz One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    For someone is very much in favour of 5G cellular network this was actually an interesting read. I would be interested to see if 5G emitted from Wifi networks (which have been around for years) have a similar effect.

    As with any new discovery, replication is very important. Will be curios to see the outcome of this
     
  5. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    5G has nothing to do with WiFi.
    5G is not a THING or a frequency. 5G is the generation of mobile telephony(5th Generation):
    - 2G ~ 1990
    - 3G ~ 2001
    - 4G ~ 2011
    - 5G ~ 2019/2020

    Currently, the highest 4G frequencies are up to ~3.5GHz. Most current 5G networks use frequencies up to 3.6GHz.
    So the conspiracy theories are just absurd.

    That's why that article is misleading, because it doesn't even mention the PWV absorption at 23.8GHz.
     
  6. whynot

    whynot Addicted

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    Perhaps the paper itself would be a better read.
    http://www.winlab.rutgers.edu/~narayan/PAPERS/5GWF_Conf_Paper_Final.pdf

    If NOAA is arguing there is a problem, perhaps there is?

     
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  7. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've already mentioned this, and the problem is in the USA, due to more lax standards:
    And it's only at 23.8GHz (at the 5G K-Band(n258) at 24.25GHz – 27.50GHz), not at other frequencies.
     
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  8. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Staying the **** at home. Ski Pass: Gold

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    An object oriented programmer would tell you this is a classic example of an overloaded operator.

    @Jasper Schwarz has mistaken the abbreviation 5G for the 5 GHz WiFi band, which is often abbreviated to 5G. It causes much hilarity when people use the SSID "5G-COVID-TEST-TOWER" for their 5 GHz WiFi.
     
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  9. Jasper Schwarz

    Jasper Schwarz One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yeah exactly. There you go - learn something new everyday
     
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  10. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    This is why whenever we talk about "5G", you need to talk about which frequency 5G.

    And as I've mentioned before, 5G can make the blood rush to your legs and you can black out..... except for fighter pilots, who train up to about 9G. ;)
     
  11. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    But to stay on topic, the -20dBW standard for the USA is simply not good enough. That attenuation will put low level frequency spikes right into the 23.8GHz, from the 24.25GHz – 27.50GHz K-band.
     
  12. iagreewithhim

    iagreewithhim Blessed are the bignoses Ski Pass: Gold

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    I knew it!
     
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  13. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    The more technical you get @Sandy, the more I'm just convinced it's a conspiracy by the lizard people.

    #youarenotfoolingme

    Begone you with your silly science and incalculable mathematical facts
     
  14. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    Why am I not surprised that the USA set a shitty standard for something that has execution repercussions that are already a known at the time of setting the standard..

    just wow, it's like never happened before
     
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