A single lift to more than double Hotham's terrain

[Boodwah]

One single lift, could be a chair or a prolly a T better and cheaper, up and over the summit - but serving two faces to the mountain in much the same way as Keogh's-Orchard is the same lift servicing different sides of the valley.
Would open up all of the northern gullies and ridges off the road, around to Eagle Ridge/Pee gully etc, prolly down to around 1550m. That main drain is nice meadows and wouldn't need much landscaping.
Then south, everything from Women's downhill off Higgi, around Avalanche Gully, Harris's, Oz Drift, and then around to the Dargo Bowl massive drain and Baldy Holly. This side could go down low to mountain ash 1400m level bc of the massive amounts of snow. Would need trails sloping down from Higgi, and also Baldy Hollow off the Alpine Way, so a fair bit of landscaping.

 

[CarveMan]

Wind hold would be a bitch, but apart from that looks amaze.

 

[Tanuki]

Yes please.

 

[kiter]

I remember visiting Hotham many years ago thinking the same

 

[Luken]

I so miss a bit of VSG style ski run fantasy threads! Great effort, you have my complete backing.. never gonna happen.. but wish it would!

 

[Doonks]

Greenies say "No"

 

[Tanuki]

Greenies say "No"

Not really. re Snow Gums there'd be little to need for any clearance IMO, unless they decided to put in switchback cat tracks.

 

[Any]

Beginners pay for lifts.
Avalanche gulley & dargo bowl are double black cliffy terrain. Anything non-black will be just cat tracks.
Also note the word avalanche in its name.

I'm told that the resort already forfeited women's downhill terrain in exchange for orchard, so makes such a plan even less likely.

Pink hamburg is very dark blue at least. The bottom down there is much skinnier and steeper than the bottom of mary's slide. It will need a gotcha style lift location cut into the hillside, or lot of earthworks for an orchard style platform over the river and considerable snow to run it if you put a lift there.
It's also north facing.
However I have read about supposed investigations for new lifted terrain at eagle ridge, which will open the top 1/2 of your concept.

The road separation already causes so many issues at loch and big d, I don't think they'll want to add even more road crossings.

I've always thought that golden point from village's base would be a nice expansion location.
South and West facing. Wind protected. Doesn't go as low as blue ribbon (not enough snow). and keep expanding in that direction for another 3 valleys +-20km and you connect with Falls.

 

[Slush]

A 3km long surface lift up some of the steepest terrain at Hotham?
Do you hate snowboarders that much?

 

[Any]

A 3km long surface lift up some of the steepest terrain at Hotham?
Do you hate snowboarders that much?

I change my mind. I vote we do it ;P

 

[CarveMan]

A 3km long surface lift up some of the steepest terrain at Hotham?
Do you hate snowboarders that much?

Duplex poma. So you can have races.

 

[Tanuki]

Beginners pay for lifts.
Avalanche gulley & dargo bowl are double black cliffy terrain. Anything non-black will be just cat tracks.
Also note the word avalanche in its name.

I'm told that the resort already forfeited women's downhill terrain in exchange for orchard, so makes such a plan even less likely.

Pink hamburg is very dark blue at least. The bottom down there is much skinnier and steeper than the bottom of mary's slide. It will need a gotcha style lift location cut into the hillside, or lot of earthworks for an orchard style platform over the river and considerable snow to run it if you put a lift there.
It's also north facing.
However I have read about supposed investigations for new lifted terrain at eagle ridge, which will open the top 1/2 of your concept.

The road separation already causes so many issues at loch and big d, I don't think they'll want to add even more road crossings.

I've always thought that golden point from village's base would be a nice expansion location.
South and West facing. Wind protected. Doesn't go as low as blue ribbon (not enough snow). and keep expanding in that direction for another 3 valleys +-20km and you connect with Falls.

Lots of nice, new green runs up on top there as well.
Also some nice beginner to intermediate terrain down from the top of HV to the bottom of Eagle Ridge cliffs. Would need to clear lotza trees though.

 

[GS]

The road separation already causes so many issues at loch and big d, I don't think they'll want to add even more road crossings.

Won't be an issue as the Harrietville side will have permanent winter closure and be replaced with the rack railway that boodwah forgot to mention

 

[Tanuki]

Won't be an issue as the Harrietville side will have permanent winter closure and be replaced with the rack railway that boodwah forgot to mention

With that station that was planned to be out the Razorback?

 

[Doonks]

Not really. re Snow Gums there'd be little to need for any clearance IMO, unless they decided to put in switchback cat tracks.

Isn't the Fuzzy Nosed Dingbat out there somewhere?

 

[StashyMcStash]

A 3km long surface lift up some of the steepest terrain at Hotham?
Do you hate snowboarders that much?

Would be an automated kook filter.

Imagine being yanked up and across the summit in proper north-west storm. Right in the kisser

 

[GS]

With that station that was planned to be out the Razorback?

Yep, Federation Hut station

 

[CarveMan]

Would be an automated kook filter.

Imagine being yanked up and across the summit in proper north-west storm. Right in the kisser

Better than 50’ up in the air on a chairlift!

 

[StashyMcStash]

Better than 50’ up in the air on a chairlift!

100%

 

[Sandy]

Here's some of my crayon work from 11 years ago, around Golden Point.

 

[GS]

Would be an automated kook filter.

Imagine being yanked up and across the summit in proper north-west storm. Right in the kisser

during storms they can turn off the big diesel engine and power the tow using the little sails that deploy from the T's going in the opposite direction.

I'm an ideas person

 

[Tanuki]

Isn't the Fuzzy Nosed Dingbat out there somewhere?

Short haired rockhopper.

 

[skifree]

One single lift, could be a chair or a prolly a T better and cheaper, up and over the summit - but serving two faces to the mountain in much the same way as Keogh's-Orchard is the same lift servicing different sides of the valley.
Would open up all of the northern gullies and ridges off the road, around to Eagle Ridge/Pee gully etc, prolly down to around 1550m. That main drain is nice meadows and wouldn't need much landscaping.
Then south, everything from Women's downhill off Higgi, around Avalanche Gully, Harris's, Oz Drift, and then around to the Dargo Bowl massive drain and Baldy Holly. This side could go down low to mountain ash 1400m level bc of the massive amounts of snow. Would need trails sloping down from Higgi, and also Baldy Hollow off the Alpine Way, so a fair bit of landscaping.

Quite a bit of avy prone terrain in that capture.

 

[GS]

Quite a bit of avy prone terrain in that capture.

Self grooming runs I think they will be called

 

[djam]

a north face is the best on the odd occasion after a big fall with 6 of you, it's a whole different story once you put 100-1000 of skiers on it and a bit of sun.

 

[Hermannator]

during storms they can turn off the big diesel engine and power the tow using the little sails that deploy from the T's going in the opposite direction.

I'm an ideas person

Reminds me of this:

This Vintage Ropeway Moves 300 Tons of Shale Per Day... Without Using Any Power

While it's not as fancy as modern mining conveyors, this vintage ropeway transports shale from a quarry to a brickworks without using electricity or fuel.

theawesomer.com

 

[Hermannator]

Any of the above crayon work that opens up south-facing terrain...

Too much of Hotham is in the sun

 

[Boodwah]

Apologies to @VSG who can draw it all up better than me, I did it in a second. Forgot to draw in all the massive (snow) fences w gates keeping out all the beginners from entering anything on the south side.

 

[Boodwah]

The north faces hold massive drifts on their eastern swales often skiable well in to spring. And otherwise still skiable from the southern slopes off Eagle Ridge.

 

[Boodwah]

Quite a bit of avy prone terrain in that capture.

Bill would be on to it. He loves to light fuses at Hotham almost as much as Gulmarg.

 

[Boodwah]

Wind hold would be a bitch, but apart from that looks amaze.

I reckon a drag would be better, keep it low, cheaper, discourage beginners and snowboarders, fewer general stoppages and wind holds.

 

[Hermannator]

And the best thing about a drag lift is you can ditch it a 3rd/halfway (or any fraction) up if you see a good stash

 

[CarveMan]

Part of why I love skiing in France is the Pomas. I always msg a live pic to @Vermillion too. He knows what’s up.

 

[Boodwah]

The old Brockhoff Poma was the greatest.
It was actually a chairlift for one person at times as a small kid

 

[Sandy]

The old Brockhoff Poma was the greatest.
It was actually a chairlift for one person at times as a small kid

1984:

 

[Boodwah]

1984:

A1, A2, A3…
And an unpiped creek in Slalom Gully
Fond memories.

 

[BlueHue]

What about a snowcat out instead of new lifts. Could be a good model for Aussie resorts to access new steeper terrain. No infrastructure and minimal capital investment, less environmental issues, protected cabin to ride in, limit on numbers to ensure terrain not skies out to quick. Maybe link a card to rfid cards and have at it at $10 a pop or something. Poor man's cat skiing! Something like Utah's Powder Mtn setup. Even better if the terrain involves a short hike at the start.

 

[Bogong]

Just whack in a few nutcracker tows on the desired slopes.

• They are dirt cheap to build and operate.
• They automatically exclude beginners and snow boarders and
• They run at twice the speed of T-bars or Hotham's slow fixed grip chairlifts.

Thus they are ideal in every way. Prove me wrong!

 

[djam]

might be a problem with regulations these days.

 

[CarveMan]

Just whack in a few nutcracker tows on the desired slopes.

• They are dirt cheap to build and operate.
• They automatically exclude beginners and snow boarders and
• They run at twice the speed of T-bars or Hotham's slow fixed grip chairlifts.

Thus they are ideal in every way. Prove me wrong!

One of the best ski trips I ever went on was powered by nutcrackers and helicopters!

 

[snowgum]

Some great ideas here. The master plan hasn’t been quoted publicly for years (8 or 10?)

It would be ‘real nice’ if Vail / RM would quote that doc now and then.

Or will Hotham look virtually the same in 20 or 30 years?

 

[MisterMxyzptlk]

Just whack in a few nutcracker tows on the desired slopes.

• They are dirt cheap to build and operate.
• They automatically exclude beginners and snow boarders and
• They run at twice the speed of T-bars or Hotham's slow fixed grip chairlifts.

Thus they are ideal in every way. Prove me wrong!

Nutcrackers at 6'4" are challenging I promise you

 

[Bogong]

Nutcrackers at 6'4" are challenging I promise you

It depends how high the lift operators or ski patrollers set the rope on the day.

I'm 4" shorter than you, so I struggled attaching my nutcracker to the armpit high rope in this photo at Mt Mawson in Tassie. But that height would be ideal for you.

 

[Seth]

One of the best ski trips I ever went on was powered by nutcrackers and helicopters!

When going down the hill is the 'rest'.

 

[Boodwah]

@Sandy idea is good too, but if you take that one up and over into the Cobungra Valley, there's another insane amount of terrain to be unlocked.

 

[Sandy]

@Sandy idea is good too, but if you take that one up and over into the Cobungra Valley, there's another insane amount of terrain to be unlocked.

Yes, I've often looked across at how much there is out there.

The 2011 "crayons" were based on the real talk back then about a Golden Point lift.

Here's more crayons from 2011:

 

[MisterMxyzptlk]

It depends how high the lift operators or ski patrollers set the rope on the day.

I'm 4" shorter than you, so I struggled attaching my nutcracker to the armpit high rope in this photo at Mt Mawson in Tassie. But that height would be ideal for you.

I've never been able to fully ride the Round Hill rope in NZ because it is literally at my knee level the entire way up.I'm sure everyone wonders who the ski version of Quasimodo is trying to hold on going up.Yes, if the rope's higher it's fine, but it's generally set for the 5-5'10 range I reckon

 

[snowgum]

It depends how high the lift operators or ski patrollers set the rope on the day.

I'm 4" shorter than you, so I struggled attaching my nutcracker to the armpit high rope in this photo at Mt Mawson in Tassie. But that height would be ideal for you.

Could you buy a longer rope? Could the club get a few longer ropes for sub-6’ (shorties?)

Sorry it’s ~ 16 years since I skied the rope tows at Broken River & Lyford. I don’t remember height (rope length being a problem but I’m 6’3”). But uncoordination and fear of losing fingers - I had plenty of that.

Fwiw: Not a lift-type where I’d want long hair (definitely not a problem here!) or really loose (borrowed/rental) jackets or Japaras (crikey!)

I’m kind of relieved our main resorts don’t have them anymore. Give me international poma (on max speed) any day!

 

[Bogong]

Interesting. The height of the sheaves that support the rope on nutcracker tows is adjusted according to the snow level. I understand it should be just above waist level? There are a few cases of two nutcracker tows running in parallel like Village at Falls Creek and Bourke St at Buller in the 1950s. I always wondered why, but perhaps they had one with a low level tow rope for short people and one with a high rope for tall people?

But put some of them on One Tree Hill and the slope between Pee Gully and Pink Hamberg and I don't think people would be too worried about the rope height.

I was looking for a photo showing how the pulleys are adjusted up and down the pole. I can't find a picture of one in operation but the mechanism can be seen if you look closely at the top of the second photo. BTW it is a photo of Australia's steepest ski lift, Rodway at Mt Mawson in TasMania, showing an avalanche damaged pole and how they straightened it out. Probably the only ski lift in Australia that serves slopes that make the hardest Hotham has to offer look routine.

 

[snowgum]

Interesting. The height of the sheaves that support the rope on nutcracker tows is adjusted according to the snow level. I understand it should be just above waist level? There are a few cases of two nutcracker tows running in parallel like Village at Falls Creek and Bourke St at Buller in the 1950s. I always wondered why, but perhaps they had one with a low level tow rope for short people and one with a high rope for tall people?

I was looking for a photo showing how the pulleys are adjusted up and down the pole. But I can't find one. So instead here is a photo of Australia's steepest ski lift, Rodway at Mt Mawson in TasMania, showing an avalanche damaged pole and how they straightened it out. Probably the only ski lift in Australia that serves slopes that make the hardest Hotham has to offer look routine.

————
SG:

Fascinating Bogong. Cheers. You really know your stuff - thank you on behalf of all forum items for sharing!

FYI; I believe I’ve walked past that slope - turn shelf walk isn’t it? Great pencil pines, although a large area with bushfire damage.

I was pretty gobsmacked when I saw it. I wonder how often the lift is in operation these days - given CC and just how much the main - begin/inter lifts struggle to stay open most years. One for the big (2000/2004/2017) years? Peak August weekends? Cheers.

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