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ELI5 Accomodation cost

Discussion in 'Japan' started by art, Sep 26, 2019.

  1. art

    art One of Us

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    Eli5
    Have been looking for small apartment accom for family of 4, short walk to lifts preferred, in February.
    Prices in Japan seem high compared to Europe and North America. I've been looking at month long stays which seem to attract discounts in some countries. Is this not a thing in Japan?
    Am I just late to the party or am I seeing normal prices?
    Not trolling just genuinely surprised by the $$$ being asked and interested to understand.

    Feel free to point me at good deals if you know of any, but that is secondary to the queries above.

    Thanks
     
  2. M_G

    M_G M_G_ = Make skiing great again Ski Pass: Gold

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    One, it'd be good to know where you are looking?

    Two, long term discount is not really a thing in Japan. And it must also be remembered that nearly all apartments in Japanese ski areas are either new builds or major renos. Therefore they all tend to be at the higher end price wise compared to other styles of Japanese accommodation.

    Three, why do you need an apartment? Jump in and go local. You might be surprised!
     
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  3. art

    art One of Us

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    I've been looking at places all over but focusing on bigger areas to keep the variety for a longer stay as the kids gain some confidence. Furano ticked a lot of boxes but I'm open to suggestions.

    The apartment requirement is tough as I know it's not so common in Japan and my previous experience with Japanese style accom was great. However without boring you with details of the dynamics of my family I think we would struggle on a long holiday all in one room and only having shared living spaces and common meal areas.
     
  4. M_G

    M_G M_G_ = Make skiing great again Ski Pass: Gold

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    When in Feb out of interest?
     
  5. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Why are apartments expensive in Japan? Under supply means they can charge inflated prices. Compared to oversupply in places overseas.
     
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  6. art

    art One of Us

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    I'm flexible starting after 3rd of Feb for maybe a 3 to 5 week stay.
     
  7. M_G

    M_G M_G_ = Make skiing great again Ski Pass: Gold

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    You're banging into Chinese New Year in early Feb and that knocks a lot of places out. If you can come from from mid-Feb on that will open up the field. I'd also be looking in Hakuba. Lots of apartment choices there.
     
  8. art

    art One of Us

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    I guess economics 101 is a reasonable answer.
    Ive been looking at it like it's a global market, if there is under supply in Japan customers could go elsewhere but it's only like that for an Aussie on a longer holiday where accom costs start dominating the budget. Obviously there are many other factors that make it a more localised market. I've just been a bit blinkered by my particular circumstances
     
  9. art

    art One of Us

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    When does the CNY rush end?
    Will look at Hakuba. I guess it will be heading into spring conditions from late Feb?
    Thanks
     
  10. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    CNY is around Australia day.
    There is also a public holiday 11th Feb.
    Late Feb can be anything IMO . Sometimes March is better than Feb.
     
  11. scottski

    scottski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ryokan at Rausu is only 700 yen a night

    The ski resort however closed down 15 years ago
     
  12. silva

    silva One of Us

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    In general I also find accommodation very expensive in Japan when comparing to the US and Canada. We use what I would call lodge style accommodation in Japan to keep costs down and on average I would estimate it costs us 9000 yen per person per night which is about $375A per night (2A1C share bathroom, budget/basic accommodation, some places have kitchen access). On our last trip to the US our 2 bedroom almost ski in/ski out apartment was under $3000A for 3 weeks = $142 per night (got a very good discount for being a return customer but still amazing value).
    Apartments can actually be economical for larger groups in Japan eg: Big bear chalets in Hakuba sleep 6 (without using the lounge room) and in peak season are 60000yen per night. That is only a fraction more per person than we pay for budget lodge style accommodation with shared facilities and you are getting very nice digs.
    In general we find that accommodation prices are higher in Japan but lift passes are cheaper. For us it balances out about the same in the long run but for a 3 to 5 week trip where season pass discounts and US/Canada long term accom discounts come into play - you may find US/Canada works out more economical overall (even if comparing budget lodge style accom in Japan to moderate apartments in the US/Canada).
     
    art likes this.
  13. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    We pay 14,000 yen for a room that sleeps 4 in a lodge. Shared bathroom, kitchen etc.
    Mind you I onsen most days. So don't use the shower that much.
    Hakuba.
    So 3500 per person .
     
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  14. silva

    silva One of Us

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    Can you PM me the lodge?
    That's a awesome deal - location? January?
    Do they charge per room or per person? I did find a couple of cheaper places last time I looked but when I added in the third person the price went up.
     
  15. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Most Japanese places charge by the person. Prince Hotels in Japan generally charge by the room, so it can end up being much cheaper.
    I had 8 people at the Naeba Prince Hotel last season, and it cost 450,000 for 7 nights. (about $6200, or $775pp)
    Same price for 9 people, so about $690.
    So in your case a 3 person room is around 7200yen/pppn, or less than $100
     
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  16. silva

    silva One of Us

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    Thanks for the info Sandy.
    I looked at the Prince hotel for our trip to Shiga Kogan this year but it worked out at 11800 pppn and meals seemed to be expensive (didn't include breakfast but started on the 2nd of January so busy time). Might try Naeba next trip.
     
  17. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Have a look at Booking.com
    Although I'm a member of the Seibu Prince Club, but I can often find better deals on booking.com for the Prince.
    If you look at Shiga Kogen Prince WEST, you can generally get prices for a triple (actually, they are quad rooms) for about 6000-7000pppn. I think you'll find that Prince West was booked out for those dates, and it defaulted to the Prince East, which is exy.
     
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  18. hatto

    hatto One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I compare it like this. Walk up, no season pass, walking distance to lift, peak season
    Nagano area
    bed 9000Y pppn - some places cheaper
    Ski 4500Y per day -some places cheaper
    Dine 2500Y Night (high end)
    5 beers 3000Y night 500ml
    Total 19000Y per night -235 aud
    Airfares 1200 Aud
    3 week trip - 6135 AUD

    Perisher
    Bed - 300 (if lucky)
    Ski 160ish
    Dine 50
    beers 60 375ml
    Total -570 aud
    Fuel - 100
    Skitube 60
    3week trip -12130 AUD
    No contest IMO
     
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  19. Neoh JH

    Neoh JH Hard Yards

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    If you're looking at Hakuba, you aren't going to get cheap apartments. As M_G stated, apartments tend to be new builds with premium prices, especially in February which is the peak season.

    You could perhaps take a look at Wadano Gateway which is offering small Suites that can sleep up to 4 adults with a private bathroom. A sample booking for 4 adults from the 10th of February to the 1st of March (20 nights) will cost you 761,000 yen at an average cost of 38,000 a night, with a ~12% long stay discount.

    http://www.wadanogateway.com/suites

    You will get much cheaper prices if you look for 2 separate rooms in older lodges.
     
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  20. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    eg
    http://blackpinelodge.com/rooms-rates-availability/
     
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  21. Neoh JH

    Neoh JH Hard Yards

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  22. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    well kinda - looks booked 9th feb for 14 days for rooms with bathrooms , not booked for rooms without
    Then fine from the 23rd
    at 138 bucks aud a night ... plus I think you can get a 15% discount (my friends did)..decent deal
     
  23. Neoh JH

    Neoh JH Hard Yards

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    OP was looking for an apartment for 20+ days though, I'm assuming to keep the family together. I do agree that 2 rooms in a typical lodge would cost a lot less, and Japan is so safe anyway.
     
  24. art

    art One of Us

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    Thanks for all the suggestions. Ive had a quick look at a few and will look more tonight.

    I think @silva has confirmed for me that im not imagining things.
    Maybe Japan is going to have to wait until i think my family will be compatible with shared facilities.
     
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  25. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    There has never really been a market for apartment style ski resort accommodation in Japan until the last 10 years or so with the influx on foreign visitors who want this sort of thing, so the ones that are around are in the bigger resorts aimed at foreigners, hence more expensive.

    Previously the Japanese were normally short stay only, so small Pensions and Hotels in a tatami room were the norm and the cheap way to go (and still mostly is).
     
  26. M_G

    M_G M_G_ = Make skiing great again Ski Pass: Gold

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    Check out Red Warehouse Myoko. You can get a family suite, either with sep. bedrooms or divided sleeping spaces. There's also a sep. kids / games room on a floor lower than the guest lounge so the grommits don't have to be near you if they don't want. Pretty much full until mid-Feb 2020 but could do you a deal after that. Can't do you any deals in peak anyway.
     
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  27. Lucky Pete

    Lucky Pete One of Us

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    As an accommodation owner including 4 apartments and a little house perhaps I can offer some insight re pricing. Our margins are OK but understand there is about an 8 to 10 week window for us to make enough income to cover us for the remaining 40+ weeks as unlike Europe and the US etc which have well developed summer business (Whistler's is bigger than their winter for example) our green season is very light.

    Costs such as 13% going to booking.com, 3.75% going to credit card payment gateways, cleaning staff which are some of the highest paid in the valley (and rightly so as its hard work!), utilities etc etc and pretty soon a large chunk of the gross margins are eaten up. Couple that with new build costs being real world pricing and most builds being from scratch now, its not cheap setting up nor operating here, particularly compared against other more established areas offering similar accommodation globally.

    On the upside for guests its my 2 cents that prices will stabilize as in addition to all the single dwelling buildings going up each year, several large developments are being built in Hakuba now, opening up supply further in the short term but ultimately it will go the way of Niseko pricing wise hence one of the reasons why you are seeing investment in Myoko, Madarao etc etc, a lot of which is the lower to mid end of the market and its there where you'll have more chance of finding cheaper accom.
     
    #27 Lucky Pete, Sep 28, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
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  28. Nozawaman

    Nozawaman A Local

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    This would have to take the cake !!!!!!!!!
    A quote a friend received for a week in January 2021 ...over $50,000 for a week

     
  29. M_G

    M_G M_G_ = Make skiing great again Ski Pass: Gold

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    :eek::eek:

    Must be a hell of an apartment. Do they include a chef, a butler, a nanny and helicopter rides to resort of choice?
     
  30. Lucky Pete

    Lucky Pete One of Us

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    Its a stunning property that has hosted the rich and famous and even me, for a BBQ and piss up LOL.
     
  31. Neoh JH

    Neoh JH Hard Yards

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    Oh that one. It's HHG's most expensive property. http://www.onechalets.com/one-happo/
     
  32. ponyrider

    ponyrider Addicted

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    I had the Prince West locked in mid-Jan for AUD$74 per night but cancelled it when I decided I wanted to go to Myoko instead. Usually I work off AUD$100 to $140 for Japan, I've never found it expensive (except for Niseko).
     
  33. grantn

    grantn Addicted

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    M_G likes this.
  34. Neoh JH

    Neoh JH Hard Yards

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    Hakuba Hotel Group, they run quite a large number of properties.
     
  35. M_G

    M_G M_G_ = Make skiing great again Ski Pass: Gold

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    HHG48? ;)

    [​IMG]
     
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  36. Lucky Pete

    Lucky Pete One of Us

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    If only that was the case.... :)