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Air Canada changes seat configuration on 777's

Discussion in 'Flights' started by robbo mcs, Mar 7, 2016.

  1. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hardly anyone here knows about Japan, if they've heard anything it's pretty vague. Hardly surprising given what's in their back yard. Pretty much anyone you see with ski gear in a western Canada airport is a visitor arriving or leaving, not often Canadians - from the west anyway - fly anywhere to ski.
     
  2. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    Doesn't Vancouver have a large Japanese population?
     
  3. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Some, but they're mostly longterm families there several generations. They're a small group compared to the vast waves of recent Chinese and Indian immigrants.
     
  4. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    It's interesting the ignorance of Japanese skiing in general in both Canada and USA. I suppose when there are so many options out your backdoor, nobody really promotes it or cares.

    Often I've talked to people on gondolas and lifts, and the conversation comes round to Australians. I mention a lot more now go to Japan rather than Canada and I get some really strange looks!

    The real hard core people obviously know about it, but not the mums and dads and occasional weekend skiiers
     
  5. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    Unofficial networks knows lol
     
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  6. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    who could be assed flying to japan - two flights minimum from canada? maybe as a novelty or to tick the box but really?
    not that it's not a great place however.
    a fair few nth americans in europe though
     
  7. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    Lodge I'm in now is quite multicultural. A lot of NA people stay here...and euros
     
  8. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    will always be the dedicated
     
  9. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    Super cheap for scands to fly to Japan
     
  10. benchives

    benchives Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I reckon Stockholm / Oslo to geneva / Vienna would be cheaper?
     
  11. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah the charter packages are dirt cheap.
    Scandos are cashed up and reasonably adventurous however
     
  12. benchives

    benchives Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeh Japan is exotic to Europeans

    Besides skandis hate ruskis, and they are all over Europe and not many in japan
     
  13. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Southern Scandinavia to Japan is shorter than Sydney or Melbourne to Japan.
     
  14. benchives

    benchives Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeh good old artic circle flight

    Like Syd to joburg, go right deep into the Southern Ocean quickens it up real smart
     
  15. ScottGN

    ScottGN One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    There were lots of Scandis in Niseko when I was there in February. Quite a lot of Americans and Britons too. More Kiwis than I expected (including me of course) and fewer Australians.
     
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  16. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Plenty of Canadians from Ontario and Quebec - the population centres - fly to Europe, our ski mags always have writeups on Euro destinations. Flight times are only an hour or two longer than heading to BC or Alberta. Might be a little less popular at present with CAD a bit soft against the Euro. The big family kingdoms (Whistler, SS, BW, SP) market strongly in central Canada and of course their key edge is no currency or language issues.
     
  17. Nozawaman

    Nozawaman A Local

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    And terrain , as much as I love Japan , I do long for the big lines of Canada/US/Europe .
     
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  18. Stu C

    Stu C First Runs

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    Just reconfirming what others have already said.... avoid the 3x4x3 configured 777 at all costs.... have done a lot of long distance flying over the years and without a doubt this is the most uncomfortable plane I have ever flown on! Flew back from Vancouver to Sydney at end of December and by the time we had de-iced, got unwanted luggage off, we were almost 17 hours in our seats rubbing shoulders! To put it in prospective, Jetstar seating is spacious!
     
  19. oldgeezer

    oldgeezer One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Just did YVR-SYD.

    Same here. Never again.

    But I'd extend that to PE as well as Economy.

    We went over after paying PE upgrade on check-in.

    PE can be just plain Economy with a bit of extra legroom as per United for $150 extra or Business Minus as per Qantas for $750 extra one way. In a kind of way it is somewhat similar to Business before lie flat seats, i.e. one gets a good recline with calf/foot rests but OTOH that means seats in front reclining back into one's lap making it difficult to see IFE, and having to clamber over arm rests to get to the isle. Hence Business Minus. However at least on Qantas for example one gets sweetners such as dedicated PE staff, a welcome glass of bubbly on boarding, quite wide seats with calf/foot rests, a premium meal service with linen and cutlery and wine from bottles, and access to the lavs at the rear of business.

    Not so on Air Canada for about the same premium as Qantas. One id definitely in the economy section (albeit with a divider) but same staff as rest of economy section, down to back and queue up for the lavatory, same old economy meal service (just served first), surly staff etc. Plus 2-4-2 on 777 still gives gives less room than 2-4-2 on B747 or A380 as per Qantas and no calf rests.

    As to staff they were more noticeably disinterested, would surly be too strong a word? Their workload has been increased by a considerable margin so one can hardly blame them.

    As to the micro level we came back on economy as booked as we were are looking at a trip same time next year and wanted to see what it was like.

    For reasonably sized people it is truly cattle class, plenty of pressing the flesh: Not just of upper arms but for the two in the middle there is pressing together of upper thighs under the arm rest.

    For people sitting next to plus sized passengers 'cattle class' is too kind. Try 'sardine class'. You know, how one sardine is packaged lying on the thinner part of the sardine underneath. Waiting at said RHS lavatrory I noticed the girl sitting in the bulkhead row aisle with a big guy next to her. His shoulder used her chest as part of his seat-back and his upper arm was abutting her breast.

    Re that lavatory check row 28 on https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_Canada/Air_Canada_Boeing_777-200LR_77L_v2.php. It is the outside right toilet which has been removed to be replaced by a row of seats. As per that seat map there was another girl sitting in the aisle seat directly opposite the inside toilet door so must have spent the 14 hours with toilet door constantly opening and closing just a foot from her, flushing noises and lights plus smells no doubt.

    Paying extra for bulkhead seats behind PE made a bit of difference but the person on the aisle in row 18 constantly had their knee bashed by the cart as it angled out of the PE aisle back into the Y class aisle. No wonder cabin crew is now just disinterested if not resentful, their work has been made a lot more difficult with more people to deal with. Sitting down made it impossible to fine the seat belt coming back from lav as one has inevitably sat on it, so one had to get up and try to arrange it on neighbor's lap before sitting down. Being at front of section did mean a bit of jiggle room to find one's belt.

    On a macro scale the number of people now squeezed into economy is scary if one thinks about what it would be like in case of an emergency evacuation in smoke/darkness. Bedlam would come to mind.

    The 777 surely was designed with 9 across in mind, 10 is degrading and maybe even unsafe. Likewise the 787 Boeing had 8 across whereas United, AC and one hears Qantas will be doing 9 across at 17.1" compared with 17" on the 10 across 777, so must be almost as bad.

    CX is looking OK still with economy at 3-3-3 on their 777s (and not reclining back into your lap, an extra bonus) so that looks like a candidate. Qantas too as economy 3-4-3 on the wider A380s or B747s is good. If one extends to PE then their Business Minus is better than AC's cheapskate Economy Plus so that would be the go, maybe AirNZ too (not for Economy though being 3-4-3 on their 777s).

    Final complaint about AC and this goes back to before the re-configuration is that they seem ultra sensitive to a bit of bumpity bump in flight. Flight deck put on the sit down and buckle up sign at the first minor bumpiness, and then 30 minutes will go by without a bump yet they still keep the buckle up sign on. Given the increased number of people needing to use a decreased number of lavs that does make for some inconvenience.
     
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  20. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Comprehensive and interesting review.
    Have you also reviewed on airline website? Would be good information for all AC travellers to read.
     
  21. Born2ski

    Born2ski Part of the Furniture

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    Makes our Fiji Airways seats at 18 inches wide look like luxury. ;)
     
  22. aazz

    aazz One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I agree with @oldgeezer. I have flown Air Canada for a while now (Sydney to Vancouver) and after this years return trip in February I won't fly them again unless they improve a lot. There are just too many people in those cabins.
     
  23. BilbyBill

    BilbyBill One of Us

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    We have done 12 trips to Canada on AC. On the strength of these reports wont be flying with them again either.
     
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  24. Crystal

    Crystal Sand skier extraordinaire Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes..we have used them heaps in the past...have actually chosen to fly United this year to avoid AC all together.
     
  25. oldgeezer

    oldgeezer One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    As I mentioned above there was rubbing hips as well, for even normal sized people. The Jetstar comparison also reminded me that I should have added that the experience of Star Class on Jetstar was streets ahead of PE on AC34.
     
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  26. retread

    retread Hard Yards Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thanks for all the AC love. We're wheels up in 59 days Syd-Yvr with AC. I'll be able to give you an update. One saving grace is that we will have two kids with us so they won't invade our space so much.
    Just did Sydney-Heathrow return in the school holidays with BA. That was on a 777 in a 333 configuration. It was as comfortable as long haul economy goes. Flights were on time, food ok, cabin crews attentive.
     
  27. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Interesting.
    I flew AC Sydney to Vancouver 6-7 years ago and it was one of the better eceonomy long haul flights I had done up to that time.
    Have not flown with them since then though, but have booked Feb one way flight Brisbane to Vancouver, so all this bad feedback is not good to read.
    Especially considering Im 6'5 100kgs and all legs. Only 1 way flight though so can suck it up.
    I tend to pop 2 pills and sleep most of the way on those flights anyway.
    Will give my own feedback on my experience.
     
  28. retread

    retread Hard Yards Ski Pass: Gold

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    I believe Brisbane-Vancouver is on 787 and that is still a 333 config. Not quite so squeezy.
     
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  29. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thats good news
     
  30. oldgeezer

    oldgeezer One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    We did BA SIN-SYD on a 3-3-3 777 a year ago and it was fine as was AC when it was 3-3-3, which was the original configuration Boeing had intended.

    With 3-4-3 it is a totally different experience and dreadful with a plus sized person next to you, which was an issue even with normal sized economy seats, far more so with these 17" seats. However 3-4-3 could work retread with a family across the middle 4.

    It might even be worth a repeat if the cabin crew weren't so sullen, it was almost as though they picked up the vibe and transmitted it back to the passengers even those in PE, plus as mentioned the fact that their workplace is now the pits so morale has vanished, and their attitude seemed to be "if you have such little respect for yourself to go sardine class why should we bother seeing how management have treated us".

    Re the 787 having 3-3-3 bear in mind that it represents a budget airline configuration, e.g. Jetstar is so configured. Joyce has announced mainline Qantas will be similarly configured which is odd as that sort of cuts across the bows of setting up Jetstar in the first place. Would be unbearable SYD-ORD which is one route mentioned. Maybe it is so aircraft can be switched from Qantas to Jetstar. However even though Boeing designed the 787 intending 8 across in economy as befits the Dreamliner tag seems most all airlines are fitting 3-3-3 so the 787 is becoming an aircraft to avoid on long distance flights says lots of links on Dr Google, after the first go perhaps.

    But perhaps the extra 0.1" might make a difference and I'm tossing up whether to pay $2000 odd for comfort using Qantas A380 plus another $500 internal domestic or clearing out my Aeroplan points on UA's 787 3-3-3. Probably the former and save the airmiles for a points+pay business seat for next time.
     
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  31. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    ^^^ jetstar put about 300 in 788s, qf will have about 240 in 789s...
     
  32. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just secured 1A and 2A Emirates Sydney to NYC next September. Okay long way heading west but wgaf if you're in the pointy bit. Winning. Gotta love FF points.
     
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  33. oldgeezer

    oldgeezer One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yep but Qantas will have a large business class section and a large PE section which reduces rows available for 9 across economy viz a viz Jetstar. Adjusting for that difference still means Jetstar style seating for economy, the vast bulk, on Qantas 787-9, perhaps with a tad more leg room. What will be worth watching for is Jet Star Class if they extend beyond HNL, say to SFO.

    Funny that, I was just looking at that myself on Qantas tonight albeit not right up front but still business heading to Chicago/Toronto next September(and burning Aeroplan points coming home on AC Business), either Emirates or BA via Heathrow. Might look at booking that tomorrow. Points seats to Nth America trans pacific September next year just don't seem available in Business or 1st and its probably to do with school holidays.
     
  34. oldgeezer

    oldgeezer One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Well in the end that Sardine Class flight ended up producing a very satisfactory outcome.

    I had been planning to use just about all my Aeroplan miles on a UA787-9 round trip to Colorado at the end of Feb into March, and then to Chicago and back home and then burn my Qantas points plus $3500 cash odd on a Points+Pay PE Fall Colors vacation back east this time next year.

    Instead after thinking about how the 787-9 seat is just 0.1" wider than the 777-10 seat what's transpired is I'm burning the Qantas points on Classic award Business seats via HKG to JFK for the Fall Colors vacation, shifting Chicago to that trip and burning the Aeroplan miles to return from Chicago in First (for the only time in my life) to Haneda then Business to Sydney on ANA.

    Then instead of $3K odd I'm just outlaying about $2500K for the trip at the end of Feb (and that will also getting to BC for some more skiing) on those nice wide Qantas A380 Economy seats including the surcharge for picking the Economy seat in the middle on the aisle with no seat in front, so great legroom for the flight to DFW, and a nice aisle seat coming back on a B747 in the first row at the back when it drops back to two seats on the side.

    So saved myself $1000 and gained heaps better seats.

    Wouldn't have got the brain into gear without having posted that review.
     
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  35. bdenny4

    bdenny4 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    How many did that cost you
     
  36. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    @bdenny4 It cost 200k points per ticket.
     
  37. bdenny4

    bdenny4 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    That's OK - assuming you had to make a phone call for that, not available online
     
  38. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Nah, was online. The trick to booking Qantas FF points is to start looking 11 months before traveling. That's when they start releasing seats. No point 2 months out. Wife looked at business class options via LAX and then spotted the Emirates 1st option via Dubai. No brainer. I can handle 30+ hours in First. Kinda looking forward to it. We'll be away for a month so should be a great introduction for the break.
     
  39. David Andrews

    David Andrews Hard Yards

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    30 hours !!!! That's a long haul on any airline in any class.
     
  40. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not in 1st. have done before. Also includes 10 hours in Dubai so a good break in between.
     
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  41. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    That lounge works well, shower and a great meal :D
     
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  42. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Roger that Captain. :thumbs:
     
  43. bdenny4

    bdenny4 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  44. David Andrews

    David Andrews Hard Yards

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    10 hours in that place, yuk
     
  45. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sweet!
     
  46. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Okay, better than 24 hours Bolt upright in an eco seat via LAX? I'll let you know.
     
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  47. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm with you!
    Emirates First - layover in Dubai - loooxury!! :thumbs:
     
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  48. David Andrews

    David Andrews Hard Yards

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    Sydney Vancouver via LA is about 19 hours. That's 11 hours less. 11 hours & LA is no picture postcard, but anything's better than Dubai.
     
  49. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thanks @David Andrews But I'm heading to New York. Happy for the limo pickup from home, flight to your Dubai hell hole, never been there before, a days look around and then on to NYC. All First Class, no work, no issues, no care. I'll be relaxing all the way. :thumbs:
     
  50. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    But are you going to Copper Mountain?