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Alpine Diesel problems?

Discussion in 'Hotham & Dinner Plain' started by windjunky, Aug 20, 2017.

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  1. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Tempting but it may induce a permanent engine light as it will think the filter is clogged. There may be a way around that but I am not that clever. My mechanic blocked off the EGR valve on our Ranger and said he knew how to do it so there would be no fault recorded. Wrong. He then said he needed to get a program to re-write the computer. Still waiting for that. BTW, don't buy a Ford Ranger. Well at least anything like a PK (Mazda BT50)
     
  2. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    With my T5 you can rewrite so no light. Its not legal, but many say there is a loophole whereby you can argue that it was not working, and effecting the vehicle.

    Ill see. Mine was replaced with a aftermarket, which doesnt perform the same. Had the filter light come on for the first time ever, but a 10min drive at 3Krpm did the trick.

    Why is it $4K for a metal tube filled with ceramic?
     
  3. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

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    He he. Suzuki was late to join the diesel brigade and they probably did not cheat.
    There is no way will VW get to "upgrade" my Tiggy. Am I being selfish about this ?
     
  4. GS

    GS A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Mine went in to Toyota today for inspection and new software, dunno if anything was replaced. I haven't had any probs in the first 24k km, hopefully it stays that way.
     
  5. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep mine was done friday and have done over 1000kms since. Never seen a 'burn mode' anyway.....most of my kms are highway
     
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  6. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I was told it was a software upgrade
     
  7. N0frilz

    N0frilz Hard Yards

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    How much antigel additive to add to diesel, How much are you flushing down the drain with overdosing, Do you follow the recommeded amount?
     
  8. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Any more than a double dose of the Lucas is waste but I have had failure with single dose so I only double dose until I get all the vehicles running full tanks of bowser Alpine and then only use the additive if I can't get Alpine diesel.
     
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  9. N0frilz

    N0frilz Hard Yards

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    So the diesel has frozen, need to mix some more samples up but it looks like overdosing is a waste of time.
     
  10. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    if you are conducting experiments, have you tried mixing Kerosene for a comparison? I have not had any dramas with either Caltex or BP's Alpine diesel (cooma or Jindabyne) in my Triton but for the diesel heater in my van, the alpine mix (suspect they are using heating oil rather than kero) clogs it up far too quickly. Hence will be using a mix of 10-15% kero with "normal" diesel (ie: neither winter diesel nor alpine diesel).
     
  11. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    There are some posts from earlier in this thread (pg 6) speaking to this and recommend 5% max kero. 15% is too much. I think Kero is a better option than the additive. We have done similar tests with the additive. It is not recommended for some vehicles to run winter mix for extended periods but for most not living in cold areas it would not be a problem.
     
  12. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    My error in clarification - 15% in the diesel heater, as it has nothing but a combustion chamber and the kero helps it burn cleaner and definitely no more than 5% in the vehicle, which has moving parts and needs the oil contained within diesel. I apologise if I have inferred you should run 15% kero for a vehicle.
     
  13. N0frilz

    N0frilz Hard Yards

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    I didn’t bother using kero as it’s more expensive than the additive I use.

    With the additive the recommended was sufficenr to stop it freezing. Any more and you’re just wasting it.

    The normal diesel froze up quickly so im comfortable with my plan for this winter and a backup plan if it does some how freeze.
     
  14. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us

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    I'm off to Victoria this weekend and I'm out of additive. Since the petrol stations at Bright all close stupidly early I'm probably not going to get a chance to top up there either.
    I've seen reference to Kerosene as an alternative to winter diesel and the diesel additive. Is the diggers stuff they sell at Bunnings sufficient?
    https://www.bunnings.com.au/diggers-1l-low-odour-kerosene_p1670049
     
  15. Charlie

    Charlie Still the most depraved poster here Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sooooo, buy some more additive!
     
  16. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us

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    I checked with Autobarn, Supercheap and Repco here in Canberra. Literally none of them stock it.

    I've bought some off ebay but it's unlikely to arrive in time.

    The shit of a thing is that the servos in Cooma and Jindabyne open late. Why is Bright so freaking backwards to close everything by 8?
     
  17. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    IIRC there's a card operated bowser in M'ford.
     
  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    And FWIW there was a piece recently in Royal Auto from the RACV opining that ordinary diesel should be good down to -5.
     
  19. Young Angus

    Young Angus Early Days

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    What time does the Bright Shell open in the morning? I'll be driving through around 8am I reckon so want to get in and fill up the tank...I'm a bit worried though, do people think it'll be enough to just put their Alpine Diesel in and away I go? Got my trusty series 1 Land Rover Discovery with a 300Tdi diesel in it. Had problems starting after being in -6 overnight at Jindabyne once but started eventually, felt like it was running on two cylinders for a while, at least it went though...slowly and smokey.

    Also who does a test of the coolant mix to tell me what its freezing point is? Will the servos up that way do one of those or is it better to do before I go? Can I get a self test for this?
     
  20. Young Angus

    Young Angus Early Days

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    I have heard this, nobody seems to trust it though. Alpine diesel is meant to run worse in a car though so it'd be nice not having to muck around with alpine diesel.
     
  21. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us

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    Ahh cheers, I normally drop in via Happy Valley Road coming from Albury but I'll keep on the road to Myrtleford instead.

    I know BP use a 'winter mix' in Canberra which is a bit better than 'normal' diesel. At worst if I top up before I go and use the rest of the additive at the bottom of the hill I should be able to make it to Bright on the way home before I need to top up again.
     
  22. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us

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    Rule of thumb seems to be if you top up from 1/4 tank or so you will be ok.

    The additive is easy to use, just dump it in before you fill, if you cant do that driving for 15 minutes or so should be enough to mix it through.
     
  23. Charlie

    Charlie Still the most depraved poster here Ski Pass: Gold

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    Syphon a sample out of your tank, put it in the freezer overnight, and check it for cloudiness in the AM
     
  24. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    It is not. We were caught out at home with an early cold snap this year, no Alpine diesel and no additive. One machine and two cars did not start. The standards for normal diesel do not take it to that level but sometimes in the changeover period there will be some additive in cold climate areas before real Alpine diesel is delivered.
    I am assuming you are heading south from the way you write. There is a 24hr credit card only servo in Bradford St. Wodonga, near the intersection of Queen St. It is not far out of the way if you are travelling to Bright and it sells the real deal and is the only one in the area. We have used it the last two winters with no problem and we live in the mountains. Do the google maps thing and you will see it but don't know what it is trading under. Don't look for servos in Wodonga as it does not show it. Just find Bradford Street or even google Arnolds Wodonga. Not far from it. Other than that use the kero at 5%. There is only one Alpine diesel bowser and it is clearly marked pump 3. Run your tank as low as you can before fill up and then put in only as much as you need for the journey back to a servo on the way home.
     
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  25. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us

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    Perfect thanks, I can see a Caltex there.
     
  26. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Was going to say they'll have winter fuel in most places along the hume.
     
  27. FlatLander

    FlatLander Addicted

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    Be aware that "Winter Blend" is not the same as Alpine Diesel, there are many different grades of Winter Blend Diesel, although Alpine Diesel has the highest concentration of heating oil, and therefore the lowest wax point.

    Not all, if any, servos on the Hume have Alpine Diesel, believe me I have been caught out. And if in Bright the only servo that sells Alpine Diesel is the Shell.

    And if its going to be very cold for extended periods in the mountains I would recommend strongly adding more additive.
     
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  28. Young Angus

    Young Angus Early Days

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    You would advise adding more additive than what is already in Alpine Diesel?
     
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  29. Endless_Winter

    Endless_Winter One of Us

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    Servos in myrtleford open longer hours than bright, have alpine diesel, and most likely cold wx diesel additive opening times are on google maps. I think one of them may have a 24hr bowser, but check that.

    The independent across from the Shell servo sells alpine diesel last time I looked, but probably similar opening hours.
     
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  30. FlatLander

    FlatLander Addicted

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    Yes definitely, especially if extended cold period forecast, or very low temps. True Alpine Diesel is only good for down to -2 or -3, cant remember exactly. Some makes of cars seem to suffer diesel waxing more than others, I assume some have better insulation in the right areas.
     
  31. FlatLander

    FlatLander Addicted

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    Endless_Winter, yes thats what the sign on the bowser reads, which is why I buy my Alpine Diesel at the Shell
     
  32. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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  33. cookieman

    cookieman One of Us

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    We have always filled up alpine deisel at the small corner servo at bright,
    If temps below -3 for a few days we top up with the additive. Stay at DP.
    Never had a problem in 15 years.
     
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  34. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Same..... although these days i just buy a couple of litres of Lucas and stick it the car as we have a rural property that also gets very cold. Opening weekend i jumped started 2 cars for others......while cranking the second one over and over i said 'you got alpine in there?' .....blank looks
     
  35. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    One of my take-outs from this thread is that different model vehicles are affected differently. Some are more liable to problems.
     
  36. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    We have four diesel vehicles and this is so true. The only one that does not need Alpine diesel is the Peugeot. Wonder why?
     
  37. TheFake

    TheFake One of Us

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    Because it spends most of the winter in the garage due to being broken?
     
  38. skull

    skull One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I just fill up at the local here in ACT, I guess they must swap out to Alpine as we haven't encountered any issues with the fuel even on the -9 mornings last year
     
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  39. Young Angus

    Young Angus Early Days

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    So I just spent the weekend at Hotham, filled up from just about empty at Bright Shell with their Alpine Diesel and added a 300ml dose of Lucas additive to the tank too. Full tank about 80L. Car (older series 1 Discovery 300Tdi) sat parked up in the snow for three days probably sitting between -3C and -6C by the time I went to drive it out of there Monday arvo at about 2pm and it started first time no problems at all.

    Just my experience, but didn't have a problem :)
     
  40. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Apply flame thrower to engine bay!

    I take it that folks know that glow plugs have to operate for a minute or two prior to turning vehicle engine over??

    We wonder what the Canadians and Nth Americans make of this issue:whistle:?
     
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  41. Young Angus

    Young Angus Early Days

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    I always glow my plugs two or three times before cranking the engine over (ie. turn halfway on to glow, wait for glow light to go out, turn off then on again and repeat).
     
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  42. GS

    GS A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    modern diesels warm the glow plugs automatically, no more waiting for the dash light to go out. Just push the start button and engine fires when it's ready
     
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  43. Charlie

    Charlie Still the most depraved poster here Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeh, but it's the modern vehicles that typically give the most cold start problems!
     
  44. Young Angus

    Young Angus Early Days

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    Is that right? Jeez modern vehicles really take the fun out of things don't they
     
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  45. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    @billykate
     
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  46. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    ah the difference between my parents Santa Fe and my Pajero.
     
  47. Endless_Winter

    Endless_Winter One of Us

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    Very few passenger cars are diesel in this part of the world. A lot of the larger vehicles, trucks etc use fuel pre heaters. Cold weather diesel used only when absolutely needed (which might be a lot in winter!) as there's an efficiency loss and the transport game has very thin profit margins.
     
  48. Claude Cat

    Claude Cat On my bike Moderator Ski Pass: Platinum

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    IIRC there's actually two different sorts.
    There's "Winter Diesel" and that's good down to -2 or -3 and "Alpine Diesel" and that's good to a fair bit lower.
    General Vic country diesel is "winter diesel" - the have a lot of frosty mornings below zero; while Alpine Diesel is near the mountains.
     
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  49. FlatLander

    FlatLander Addicted

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    From experience I would not trust alpine diesel below -2/-3 for extended periods.
     
  50. GC1

    GC1 First Runs

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    Here was my experience from last week - filled up with alpine diesel (50l of a 75l tank) at Bright, Hotham dropped to minus 11 the night before we were due to leave, couldn't start the car mid-morning (ambient temp was minus 4). It took the RACV 30 minutes of careful hot air warming of the entire fuel line course from tank to engine before we were good to go. This was a familiar story all over the mountain as RACV had more than 60 call outs by 10am that morning. In the car park, there were 4 cars in a similar situation, with similar preparation. One had filled with both alpine diesel as well as a bottle of additive, the car next to mine, normal diesel (half a tank) and two bottles of additive. I found it most annoying that on perusal of all the major manufacturer's information, as well as the Hotham site, there is no additional information about the maximum lower temperature diesel fuel will safely tolerate before even a modern car can take. The challenge for the RACV was that my fuel line in my Merc sedan was so well insulated it wasn't as simple as towing the car 250m to the bus shed where there were 4 hot air blowers stationed that could re-dissolve the solids. I called Resort Management for some guidance, and got an unsympathetic earful about how it wasn't their fault if people coming up the mountain hadn't done their research before coming up. When I asked them where on their website they had published any useful information, they replied there was none, and frankly, "why should they" !? Anyway, I'm here now to point out that in the climate-change world, where alpine temperature ranges may well more frequently be lower than a few degrees below zero, use a full tank of Alpine diesel, and additive, and seek parking that is sheltered, in the sun, and check if your car will be affected 8-10 hours prior to your departure time in case you need to call on a mechanic to heat your car. I'd add, there are people on the mountain who are helpful, but I found there was an underlying sense of "too bad, silly town people" if you asked for help from Hotham Resort itself. They didn't even want to help with suggestions for emergency accomodation that was needed when we could't get the car started on the day of our departure.