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An insight ...

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by dawooduck, Sep 10, 2015.

  1. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    This is why we need more snowmaking. About another 5500 square kilometres would do it. Cant be that hard.
     
  2. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    So mechanized intrusion into the MR is BAD?
    Because?
    It ruins the vibe?
     
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  3. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Who says the NPWS are not looking after the park? At least the bees will not be confused.
     
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  4. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo

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    LOL

    Just because I use deodorant, and have more fashion sense than a wombat. Does not constitute a MR ban. :p

    There are much greater powers at work here. Namely spousal constitution. ;)

    That said. Bathing my wife in the glow of Alpine Beauty would certainly turn her. But only a motorized tour, would get her out there. Not that, that is grounds to open it up.

    But it does show the misconception of the MR to the average Joe.
     
  5. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    can't see why 8 snowmobiles heading up the CP road and along a poled track is a issue....
    eco tourism
     
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  6. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Wife = Joe!? :oops::love:
     
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  7. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not so. Off o/s for skiing.
     
  8. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Only a teeny weeny % I would hazard a guess.
     
  9. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    I would say a larger % as the growth is driven by skiers not bushwalkers.
     
  10. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Nooooo, I meant those going o/s in summer for skiing are a small % vs BC summer walkers.
    The wires are angry and crossed :doh:
     
  11. ladycamper

    ladycamper One of Us

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    It's numbers that lend credibility to their submissions. Back when VNPA were fighting to keep the cattle out of the alps, even I on my meagre income was reaching into my pocket for their appeal. If we don't rally together, we are gone.
     
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  12. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    why can mechanical methods be a thing? ... its a pity such a remarkable part of Australia is so out of reach for so many.
     
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  13. ladycamper

    ladycamper One of Us

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    It's not been proposed that skidoo access would only be for those who have a doctors report that they lack the abilities to undertake self propelled travel to the back country. Given how many people can get disability parking permits despite that they look pretty fine to me, I wonder how elastic the guidelines application can be.

    Currently backcountry activity is undertaken mainly by those with physical fitness and preparation, the barriers to getting out there mean one has to be more motivated and resourceful and you can't travel so far in a day when it's in your own steam. Knowing your legs are your only way back to civilisation is a powerful incentive to undertake trips appropriate to the weather as well as the abilities, endurance and fitness of those in the party.

    Many of us like wilderness experiences because we can't hear mobile phones, cars, etc and desire quiet and solitude.

    The colloquial bushwalking term "highway" will take on another meaning altogether. The motorbike and 4wd lobby will demand summer access if skidoo a can get in during winter.

    Powered vehicles being used for recreational travel mean that those who are unfit and unprepared will find remote areas within their reach as long as they have money. Hoon behaviour may emerge in remote areas as there are not patrols of the trails. We will predictably find some individuals in trouble because they crash or run out of fuel and get stuck, and as they can get a long way out cos tiredness doesn't stop them, they will be further from help.
     
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  14. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    I've seen eco tourism using mechanical vehicles over snow that have no replication in summer.

    The hypocrisy and selfishness in this thread is quite amusing
     
  15. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    There is an area in Namagi NP where you are not allowed MTB's, designated wilderness, though it has a fairly main dirt road, and a house in the middle of it, ranger only access. For me it has been disappointing to watch the access to the area closed down, with roads locked in winter etc, and I don't visit much anymore, haven't skied there since 2008. I would have liked to see management instead, allowing for greater visitor numbers, in a controlled fashion. But the thinking seems to be that people are stupid, and will die. Which could be true, but hey.

    Personally I don't think that infrastructure areas need to be increased in the foreseeable future, but existing infrastructure needs to be supported re redevelopment, and improvement, which could allow for greater visitor numbers in some areas.

    DWD has a very valid point, that the nature and viewpoint of visitors is changing, the bearded scroggin munchers in their gaiters are now a minority. This will effect the park over the long term. The mtb analogy is pretty good, a KT employee said to me, when I said about time re the Flow trail (and another opening this year) "Only 20 years in the making" They have been pushing for that long.

    Visit in summer, and see a changing demographic.

    I don't think we will see choppers sessioning the WFs, and skidoos plummeting down hills with their riders skiing down behind them, shooting moose as they go, anytime soon.

    Hopefully Parks are not such an old boys club, that they can't evolve and cope with a changing situation, in a positive way for all considerations. Signals I see suggest they are doing pretty well overall.
     
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  16. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Also a look at the Katingal saga might be of interest to some, and that was private land.
     
  17. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo

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    How will controlled ,guided eco tours, end in "Hoon behaviour". To enter ,you must join a pre-arranged tour. The Yellowstone tours are booked out months in advance, due to the limited places.

    No one is even remotely proposing open slather.

    As as open discussion. The only things being talked about, are models that have worked in other environmentally sensitive areas. No expansion resulted. Area benefited from additional revenue and exposure.
     
  18. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Is it really like the sport climbing boom, learn to climb inside to a high physical and technical level in a totally controlled environment, then venture outside to be cool and embrace the real world but bring the safety of the gym, cos it's dangerous out there.
    Ring bolt everything and if it's too hard chip the holds to make them user friendly ( to you ).
    The old pharts were idiots and dangerous but we want to climb where they did, so we'll retro bolt their routes to bring them up ( down ) to our modern standards, cos it's our right to enjoy the great outdoors and be safe heroes and turn the outdoors into a big user friendly uber gym.
     
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  19. DJM

    DJM One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Exactly.
    People tend to get all weird because they want a piece of the pie and demand the limo be allowed to park on the lawn so the scent of the roses wafts through the window. Fck.....it's so much nicer to walk across the lawn and feel the grass underfoot.
     
  20. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Valid viewpoint too IMO.

    Maybe we could shell some cornices?
     
  21. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    It isn't, just requires will power and leg power. Nothing is stopping any able bodied person except their own laziness.
     
  22. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Now we know why you ski girl's skis :eek:
     
  23. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator

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    Post 168 to 171 sums it all up.
     
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  24. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've missed where any one has suggested an logical reason to disagree with Post #8.

    Just folks ignoring it's premis and saying we should be all able to do what we like and stuff the reason for having a Park.
     
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  25. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator

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    It started with lake Tarli Karng. Look where it is now. Older folks here will know what im talking about. No offence to certain peeps here but if a track gets overgrown / forgotten f&^%$# ng leave it that way. Logs..... step over them..
     
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  26. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo

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    LOL

    I love the smell of "shifted focus" in the morning . Smells like ............ ?? :D
     
  27. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo

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    I have a reason.

    You say "Flora, Fauna, Ecosystem, Geography all come First. Peoples needs come last."

    Under this pretense, you should stop all activities that negatively impact, Flora, Fauna, Ecosystem. Yet you only want to stop an activity that will negatively impact others. Those less able bodied.

    You can't have it both ways. You cannot continue to burn fossil fuels, whilst preaching "Flora, Fauna, Ecosystem, Geography all come First. Peoples needs come last."

    Conservation is a balance. Ying and Yang. For all good, there must be some evil. But you can't say, my evils are ok. But yours aren't.

    This is not a reason to open up the park. Just a reason to disagree with your post, which you asked for.
     
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  28. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    That is bullshyte black and white thinking.

    If you want to go to the backcountry there is nothing stopping you other than lacking a pair.
     
  29. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo

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    Backcountry needs people like you, Angus. And all the staunch purists. It's what built the passion for the activity. :thumbs:

    OP asked for an open discussion. I'm just presenting my experience of Dog Sledding, Skidooing and Oversnow from OS.

    Those activities contributed a significant amount to why my family went OS for a winter holiday.

    Missed opportunity for Oz snow development ??? Not sure. Just putting it out there.
     
  30. Charlie

    Charlie Still the most depraved poster here Ski Pass: Gold

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    Is Alpine Beauty some kind of bath salts?
     
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  31. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator

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    Some folks here have lost touch of their primordial instincts
     
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  32. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Why does the snow need development? Why not just let snow be snow and enjoy it for what it is without the need for further development. More (of whatever) isn't always better.
     
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  33. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    This is what you want for you whilst using all development available.
     
  34. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not really. Best part about last Saturday was leaving Perisher resort behind. That is where I like to be... away from lifts and crowds. Would do it without existing development.
     
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  35. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Still used existing development to get there .... or walk from Jindabyne ?
     
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  36. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Okay.... so now we are getting into reducto absurdum territory.

    Really, I am happy for the resorts to exist. I am happy for the resorts to be developed by improvement of existing facilities. But the resorts are not where I want to ski. My favourite skiing experiences are away from the resorts and for me that means limiting the reach of development. Sure some will complain that it is elitist, but that is life and sometimes life sucks. Building disabled access or even allowing mechanised access for the terminally lazy diminishes the remaining wilderness. And there is precious little of that left. So if you can't treat lightly, don't go.
     
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  37. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Reducto absurdum is thinking one can promote BC travel and stop associated development.

    BC "elitism" is what is fuelling access expansion.

    Funny story .... having a long chat with the proprietor of a local "BC shop" listening to him explain a wall load of BC bindings all designed to expand access by making it easier and covering all skier styles .... and I mentioned a certain person who had just spent a week out on the range in a tent in the worst possible weather and his comment was "he is just a resort skier" .... man did I chuckle inside at that paradox of conflicting bullshit that emits from the self proclaimed "team core BC" .... my first clear thought was .... we are your market you fruitbat.

    Anyway I had better head up for some dinking about whilst quietly chuckling at the absurdity of much of the "no access/more access" dialogue.
     
    #187 dawooduck, Sep 11, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2015
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  38. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    The selfish part says don't promote BC travel.... don't want it to get crowded..... which is different to encouraging others to enjoy it. Reality is that human powered BC snow play will remain a minority activity as the majority of people are too lazy to expend the energy required to access and enjoy it.
     
  39. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    That my friend is a given .... but lazy people also are in the majority and the majority is what fuels change.
     
  40. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    And sometimes the wilderness needs to be protected from the majority :thumbs:
     
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  41. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Fortunately, no one in this thread has any adverse impact.
     
  42. sara777

    sara777 A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hey, I just had this image of horse riding all the way from Jindy to MR, with skis on our backs. That would be the ultimate rural experience :D Like those guys in the last Warren Miller movie in Greece, except they were riding donkeys to their destination!
     
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  43. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sorry no horses, the wolves will chase us and eat them.

    It's all on foot or paddle up the river to Dead Horse Gap and ski from there.
     
  44. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    So where these is no close development you do find folks put in the hard yards to get there, visit the Bogong, Feathertop, Fainters, Frenchmans Cap trip reports for examples and details.

    There is a certain practicality in using the the closest development. That said I would have no problem with say the Picton River Road (and I could list quiet a few others) being closed to traffic and folks having to hoof it from a revised trail head.
     
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  45. sara777

    sara777 A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    :D I can paddle up too, no worries! Horseriding or paddling better than 4WD
     
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  46. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ahhh, just because no one here has found my condo, doesnt mean it isnt there! Now I just have to remember where I built it, should have bought a GPS!
     
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  47. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hard work is still hard work.
     
  48. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    BC ..... with internet .... which line ? Left or right
     
  49. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    The highway to heaven
     
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  50. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    [​IMG]
     
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