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An insight ...

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by dawooduck, Sep 10, 2015.

  1. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    I don wanna live in this place
    Heaven maaarst beeee therrreee

    The wind is a tad cold .... snow a tad hard
     
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  2. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo

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    So who is the majority ?

    Evil to the Wilderness comes imany forms.

    Just because you dismount your fossil fuelled transport at the resort. Doesn't exempt you from doing harm.

    So unless you build your mud brick home, walking distance from the main range. You are part of the majority.
     
    #202 Astro66, Sep 11, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2015
  3. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    whats the problem with the mechanized age??

    after the big Alpine Fires Bungalow Spur Track was a mess of fallen trees..now I suppose that the intrepid could have bumbled over and under twenty or so of these large fallen trees but the Parks Vic took up mechanized petrol consuming chainsaws which had bar oil lubricating their bars spilling some petrochemical volume here and there so you could all enjoy your leg powered venture.....and the helicopter comes to the toilet complex to keep the area pristine and uses avgas to make the rotors go round and round....and hopefully they used a trail bike to carry all the gear for the massive task that was required.....so remember that your wilderness experience comes with a cost and everybody is guilty of using fuel energy and causing some pollution in this wilderness wank...:p
     
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  4. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    A question that gets some debate is, are the numbers growing? The only stats with any cred are for the park in general, and guess what? Yes they are, steadily, with some variations. They are going the opposite way to the snow charts basically. My personal observations, which are even better than fact, are that there are more people heading outside the resort areas.

    But i can still go for a ski, like I will on Sunday (after catching a lift or two to my launch point), reap some corn, and not see anyone other than my travel buddies, and ski untracked.

    But hard to do at Club Lake once the road is open, we counted 40, yes 40, people sliding there a few years ago.
     
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  5. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    In fact Team Bears are mumbling that nobody is ganning access to Bogong and or Feathertop without the support of the support of the 'mechanized"chainsaw so stop wanking in this purist fashion...:p
     
  6. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo

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    You are correct.

    I guess the crux of the discussion, is where to draw the line.

    Some want it drawn at the resort. Some think perhaps something more can be accomodated.

    People must remember. A footprint in the snow is not the only footprint you leave in wilderness.

    It is naive to proclaim zero tolerance. Or my footprint is lighter than yours. When their footprint may lighter in other areas. Eg. Use of Solar Panels, Using more efficient devices.

    Some of The majority may use mechanised transport, because they tread lighter, in other parts of their lives.
     
    #206 Astro66, Sep 11, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2015
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  7. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Majority >50% of a population or did you fail basic statistics?

    They rest of your argument is merda :crap: and not worthy of a response.

    Grow a pair of ### and find out for yourself what the backcountry is about. Until then it is an activity that you will remain clueless about.
     
  8. snowduck

    snowduck One of Us

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    I know of a few people who aren't that interested in skiing, but would jump at the chance to partake in the pleasure of going for a solo ride on a snowmobile. There's one resort (Falls) that ticks this box, so kudos for the initiative taken. Heck, give a private operator in NSW permission to use, say, 3 or 4 kms of the Kosi Road between Perisher and Charlottes. Allow him to offer guided round trips out of Perisher using a small fleet of snowmobiles. Maybe a limit to the number of tours per day.

    Just give the opportunity to expand the appeal to tourists
     
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  9. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    There is nothing to stop any member of the public catching the over snow from Perisher to Charlotte Pass and back again for the experience of travelling over snow and seeing the alpine environment away from the resorts. It doesn't need a bunch of noisy snowmobiles to achieve this.
     
  10. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo

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    I didn't ask what is. I asked who is.

    Are you in that majority ?

    You travelling from Sydney to the Main Range, leaves a much larger footprint on the Wilderness. Than someone driving from Jindbyne. Then using mechanised transport to access the Main Range.

    Look beyond the singularity.
     
  11. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    With lunch at the Hotel to boot!

    I reject completely that because there are some areas we can't drive to, we must be able to mechanise there to recreate. I can't drive my car on a footy field, golf course, off road in the National Park, in a wilderness area, in heaps of areas. Why, because there is a fringe activity where people access an area (the MR) via specialised equipment (ski and snowshoes) is there, now suddenly this 'all access' imperative? What a load of tripe.

    You can already go 'oversnow' to CP, get a chair to the top of Thredbo, have lunch at the Guthega Pub or take a joy flight over the MR. Snow play options abound at every resort and you can drive around the whole main range in a day if you really want.

    Juristictions the world over recognise that there is a marked difference between mechanised or engine-powered access / recreation for 'non-essential' needs and human-powered travel and recreation. This is not just around the physical control of access to minimise the number of people but because engines markedly change the amenity dynamic for all users bar the one on the machine. A skier or snowshoer over the ridge is not part of my world, I don't know they are there. A skidoo (or whatever) impacts a whole noise catchment, and brings additional risks in terms of oils and fuels that really aren't there for most other recreators. The then gap from commercial motorised recreation to private motorised recreation becomes smaller, creating a whole new style of impact and management.

    I've seen a two stroke surfboard out in the water..... FFS. After he didn't piss off in 15 minutes he was quickly advised to make himself scarce or suffer a forced mechanical. We have no need to have that replicated on the MR.

    I love seeing a heap of folks out under their own steam, I don't have some massive expectation that I must be able to have a wilderness experience but that others inhibit this. Hard work keeps most at bay.
     
  12. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    What a fuking load of tripe Astro.

    To EDIT: this is the old 'if you can't have no impact, any impact is OK' argument. It's crap.
     
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  13. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo

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    Que? My query is who is making the geater impact.

    Someone else suggested. Eco first. People last.
     
  14. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Meanwile in the soft country

    Chute left, lovely, lots of wet corn sluff n nice n steep. Had to let the sluff go which messed it up a bit.
     
  15. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Chute right n over a bit. Lovely, not as steep or constricted.

     
  16. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    And off the spine and surf the wave. Very nice but requires a rock hop for the first turn

     
  17. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Here ya go ... soft country in the sunshine. Be excellent if Chute left was a few hundred metres long ....


    22 hard core headed out to the range as I dinked about.
     
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  18. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Snowy Mts has already had major impact....with all the SMA works!!!!

    hey a tunnel right thro Watsons Crags..actually providing a brilliant walking experience.....SMA 4x4's drive thro tunnel and come out otherside to Opera House for work related activities....I have been a passenger in 4x4 going in at Siren Song and I had 20 mins to run to Opera House and back to catch my lift!!!

    a massive foot print of man exists in the Main Range area your delusional if u consider this wilderness experience!!!

    but on the other hand many opportunities for access have been provided by that Hydro Scheme....

    Purists may chose to negotiate the old goat track if they desire rather than talk a 15min stroll through a couple kms of the Tunnel....but I bet you they wank them selves about their wilderness trek and go thro the tunnel!!!!LOL
     
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  19. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    there is no god dam reason why some major roads in kosy can not provide access on a limited/supervised tour for those unable to walk themselves...little bus provides tour of Schlink Pass from Guthega to Geehi once a fortnight..with Parks Staff providing interpretation of fauna/flora/hyro works etc..

    KNP needs to embrace the present& future .....this aint the good old days anymore....

    Parks need to have Managers that can think .

    "Parks for People":cool: needs to be the new mantra up in NSW...money from tours could be used constructively to enable further works/studies/feral weed and animal problems???

    pigs deer wild dogs invasive flora and a back ward policy on fire suppression are the ongoing problems of the National Parks...

    :mad:
     
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  20. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    I can't see the $20K/pa concession fees for snowmobile tours covering much more than the cost of administering snowmobile tours. If that, TBH.
     
  21. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think many people can accept use of, or the existence of, changes made in the past, without seeing that as a promotional justification for further change and impacts.

    "Someone did something 60 years ago, therefore no other impacts matter!"
     
  22. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Im headin out to stake a claim goddamit!
     
  23. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not going somewhere usually reduces the impact. But I'm always open to good data.
     
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  24. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think we dont make a big enough impact, I mean any interstellar community that may or may not exist have obviously not noticed us at all! We need to make a much bigger impact, just to get noticed!
     
  25. DJM

    DJM One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    You know whats amazing about all these pics @dawooduck ?

    Is the fact that I've seen paraplegics, blind people, people with auto immune diseases and kids barely old enough to walk ski these exact places. Yet there are still those claiming that we need more access.....Fkn bulsh$t IMO.
     
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  26. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    With the increase in obesity, the least we can do is install some winch points.
     
  27. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver A Local

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    Gold.

    Wouldn't a winch point be considered an over snow rope tow?
     
  28. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    I think you missed da point
     
  29. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Dont they use drills to winch peeps out of crevasses? Harness, drill with a few batteries, winch point....easier than my mates idea of converting a cement mixer and using a sled to bring it in. Small genny......base camp......

    Oh shit.
     
  30. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    But you have the choice of using existing infrastructure or not.....so you don't walk /run thro Watsons Crags Tunnel and then make assertions of easy access lessening the experience of your trips...you have the choice to do it the hard way.but the Goat Track no longer exists thanks to KNP management choices so it could be a real ferrel experience...

    Schlink Pass and Disappointment Spur left overs from SMA Hydro scheme don't use it so you can get the real wilderness feel for KNP....your choice to use existing routes???

    Huts your choice too don't use them.....o_O

    Roading in from Geehi Dam don't use existing tracks if you are bemoaning ease of access...
    come the hard way from Olsens Lookout straight down to Geehi and upto Lady Nth Cts Cyn...:rolleyes:
     
  31. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    it'll be about 22 people a year who go down into those depths Steve...

    And while I love the huts, I don't really use them, especially on the MR proper.

    Again, you're using the "Someone did something 60 years ago, therefore no other impacts matter!" combined with the "if you can't have no impact, any impact is OK" arguments.

    Again, they're crap in this context IMO.
     
  32. HappyGirl

    HappyGirl One of Us

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    The main range should be kept pristine. The sheer silence of it, is what adds to its absolute beauty! May it remain forever only a walk-in-out and ski-in-out only, protected area.
     
  33. DJM

    DJM One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Was there a clear point Donz? It's a tangent on the original post from Dawooduck below, and the follow up comments on allowing access for those less able. The point in context was spot on actually. As stated early in the thread and noticed by a few people in the BC arena...There are groups starting to form in every nook and cranny trying to justify themselves through an awareness, access and safety campaign. I'm just curious as to the business creation opportunities they are trying to push. Self interest?
    *Edit- added access.
     
    #233 DJM, Sep 11, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2015
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  34. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    some kind of conspiracy ???
    self interest you are saying?? just listen to you guys talk!!!!
    sounds like their are some selfish folk around on the Main Range ..."hey we got this to our selves" and we ganna ridicule any/every attempt by anybody else to move us on!!!

    wonder that some don't set their igloos up in a circle so to defend their turf!!!

    ;)
     
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  35. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Main Range should be kept out of the hands of fanatics say little Bears!!!

    the ongoing discussion is truly quite remarkable from some of you in the forum...
    :(
     
  36. DJM

    DJM One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    No conspiracy Steve. It applies to all our alpine/wilderness areas the world over. Of course it will benefit my needs in terms of wanting to travel through these areas without machines and or development where it isn't essential. Be careful what you wish for.

    It is certainly not my turf. I'm a user like everyone else and just want to see it preserved for as long as possible without change. If I thought it need development for the preservation of flora and fauna (eg. Rawson Dunny's) then I'm not opposed to it. I'm just concerned about expanding development for pure recreation in places that already seem to have enough.

    Sleds up to CP? Not sure how I feel about that one. Oversnow has it covered?
     
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  37. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sounds like a lifted punter ;)

    Interesting thread, haven't felt like such a greenie in a while despite not really being one. @climberman ftw and @DJM for honourable mentions
     
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  38. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    You seriously think a trip up the road to Charlottess Pass is some kind of Treat!!!!

    your arguments sound like the ones that were put up to defend the war in Vietnam...

    the comies are ganna all come south and over run the place??

    So other forum members are talking of providing perhaps surpervised snow mobile /snow cat tours to some locations strictly to KNP protocols and its the thin edge of the wedge argument that you guys are presenting ....a few libertys here and b.jesus they all ganna be doing there motorized thing all over the place..

    no your arguments are spurious....some thought should be given to more flexibility to tour operators in certain areas at certain times working under strict guidelines...that is not open slather....the commies are not ganna over run the trenches around the Sentinel you can all relax.....total fear mongers some of you not open to change or flexibility..minds closed and resolute in some fanatical wllderness idealism...

    the fanatics in this forum are the ones that we all need to be watching out for.....:p
     
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  39. Charlie

    Charlie Still the most depraved poster here Ski Pass: Gold

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    Has anyone else noticed the echo in here?
     
  40. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    What



    What



    What?



    Struggling there for a bit LOL

    Sorry, struggling there for a bit
     
    #240 piolet, Sep 11, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2015
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  41. HappyGirl

    HappyGirl One of Us

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    You all know that I am not a fanatical "greenie", as you all know how much I love the horses! But, moto transport/sports on the main range would blow my head gasket!
     
    #241 HappyGirl, Sep 11, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2015
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  42. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    He's a good lad, but..........


    Prefer not to inflame him :thumbs:
     
  43. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    And funny, don't think I've liked so many of @HappyGirl 's posts before... ever....
     
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  44. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    Oh yeah feel the love, man
     
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  45. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Strange where you finally find common ground.......
     
  46. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah but cull the horses
    :out:
    ;)
     
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  47. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    KNP protocols are.... no machines outside of where they go already, no private / commercial machines. It's a status quo I'm happy with. 'Supervised'? What, by someone's mum?

    It's also a load of tripe to say I (and others here - plenty of people commenting have direct personal experience of what personal mobility restrictions mean for people) not open to change or inflexible. I develop road projects for a living, the sort of thing people protest over, that require really solid thought about society's costs and tradeoffs, losses and benefits. My day to day role involves delivering large amounts of social and environmental infrastructure and change for societal benefit, certainly many, many times the order of magnitude of a tourism proposal of this scale (WTF is this scale? a construct of a few peoples' rubbish?). I'm pretty used to bullshit arguments on both sides and sure as shit can see a red herring when one's swimming down the snowy river. This 'need' to develop mechanised access to the MR to 'save' the tourism industry is complete tripe.

    I love your outlook on so many things Steve but tagging people who just want some small area of non-mechanised protection for the already small alpine region in NSW as some kind of 'commies' or 'fanatics' is just rude.
     
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  48. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty

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    Reminds me, yesterday at FC I skied past a shipping container with a ramp into it and a line up of skidoo's and people sitting on them and thought it looked a bit like a "Sled neck" club about to head out and rip it up.

    At which rate I was thinking well if Skidoos can head out to McKay to rip it up and lay down some hydrocarbons and noise pollution, whats the big deal over ski lift being there.
    It has a building and tower.
    The whole place including McKay is a resort through and through based around a power station from the look of it, how does that rate as back country when it's right at the back door and the resort with sled necks and all in ear shot of it.

    And re past comments when I look at info on the no lifts at Stirling or McKay issue it is all very dated and old and the people involved have largely moved on and I have doubts that should those intentions re surface again that there wont be a large numbers of people against it as there was in the past.

    I get the impression the interest in BC skiing is on the increase.
    I think the argument could be made that allowing resorts some expansion could reduce the numbers of people seeking BC alternatives.
    Many ski BC citing the main reason being they are sick of crowded resorts with limited terrain but if resorts had more to offer and could space out the crowding a bit then perhaps not so many people would be getting the hell out of dodge to go ski BC.

    We will all ski regardless and it would be better if it was contained in resorts by making it more attractive.
    If not and BC skiing becomes more popular it could start attracting controls by agencies to limit numbers until you have a series of almost BC resorts with listed areas you can ski and no more freedom to ski on any hill with snow you can find.
     
    telecrag and dawooduck like this.
  49. HappyGirl

    HappyGirl One of Us

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    Block your ears...

     
  50. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    At this juncture I would just like to add .... no one has championed commercial skidoo operations on the main range.

    happy skiing
    happy life