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Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent?

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by SimonInAustralia, Sep 28, 2007.

  1. DJM

    DJM One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    I found the I-tent a little scary when trying to get the poles into the slots because it was so tight. Very simple and quick to put up for one and you can just get inside in bad weather, whack the poles in and your done.

    Spose you will become quite quick over time the more you use it.
     
  2. legend

    legend One of Us

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    4 season tents are made to withstand extreme conditions. However, some take an insane amount of time to erect in bad weather. Tents that are exceptionally good (but are horrendous to put up in extreme winds)tend to be geodesic designed (eg. Northface mountain 25, MSR fury, etc). I've had many of them, but low weights and ease of set up have put me to the Hilleberg tents. These have the fly and inner attached (great in heavy rain - you don't have snow/rain penetrating the inner and getting wet before you set up the fly. Once fully guyed they are very stable (but very noisy) in extreme winds. The Macpac Minaret and Olympus are similar to the Hilleberg Nallo2 and Kaitum but tend to be about +500g heavy and have small vestibules.
     
  3. blacksheep

    blacksheep First Runs

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    MBK and mr.

    there is a macpac store in town. there was no site available on little bourke st, but we have a small shop just 1 store in from the corner of lt bourke and elizabeth st (on elizabeth st). a small store, but it is there [​IMG]
     
    #103 blacksheep, Dec 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  4. Mr Bent Knee

    Mr Bent Knee First Runs

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    I know you have a shop in the city.

    We were talking about the TWO shops in Smith St. One small clearance, then not far down the road, opposite MD's clearance you have you retail....you knew that though.
     
  5. blacksheep

    blacksheep First Runs

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    ok, well the big shop over the road became available, and we wanted a bigger space so we took it. the small shop still had a lease and has the house with it, so we kept it trading as a clearance store while the house is our guest house for NZ'ers in the big smoke [​IMG]
     
    #105 blacksheep, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  6. Mr Bent Knee

    Mr Bent Knee First Runs

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    Furry muff.
     
  7. neb

    neb First Runs

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    An opportunity missed to move in next to the big boys when the Map Shop (next to Bogong) closed down?!?!??
    Now all we have is some home craft shop..... fits in well really.
     
  8. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    has the map shop gorn?
     
  9. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    Yup. Too many maps being sold by the shop with the largest range in Vic outside Melbourne. I wish!! (well, it does have the largest range, but qty sold?? - nah)
     
  10. Mr Bent Knee

    Mr Bent Knee First Runs

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    Anaconda? I heard other things like selling the largest qty of rock gear and stocks the largest range of kayaks. Probably quite true...so many home handy men cutting down trees in need of biners out there....
     
  11. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    No MBK!! Outside Melbourne! In a little place called Narbethong. Anaconda's range of maps is woeful!
     
  12. chriscross

    chriscross One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    So, Teckel, what is your view on the tent question? Do you carry them and have a recommendation for lightweight 4 seasons? I was interested to see in a link on the Fed. Peak thread that someone complained of a Minaret "leaking like a sieve" in Tassie. Any thoughts?
     
  13. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    MSR Fury. I stock MSR & Vango. I don't currently have any Furies in stock, but can get them in in less than a week if someone wants them. However, I will get some in store around about April in preparation for the winter.
     
  14. Mr Bent Knee

    Mr Bent Knee First Runs

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    Yeah, any thoughts?

    If you ask someone who sells two brands of tent the opinion of another, which happens to be a yardstick in it's field, well, yeah....

    teckle rocks, but puts herself in the position where her bias will stop any objective comments around gear...which is a pity, but that's how I see it. There are no other people here who represent their business, aside from the occasional drop in by Ajays and Macpac, and all they do is defend themselves trying to push their product/whatever.
     
    #114 Mr Bent Knee, Dec 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  15. Mr Bent Knee

    Mr Bent Knee First Runs

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    That said, teckle wont sell you the wrong item, and will be very genuinly helpful, just getting a broad overview of everything out there is best heard from others...!
     
  16. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    That's why I hadn't commented. You'd be very hard put to find an objective retailer, who could also provide reliable feedback. But I'd rather send people elsewhere than tarnish my reputation by selling them something unsuitable. I'm also looking to stock another brand, so I'm interested in the comments here - I'm listening and taking note of what others say. I'm leaning heavily in favour of WE stuff, at present.
     
    #116 teckel, Dec 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  17. Mr Bent Knee

    Mr Bent Knee First Runs

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    Yup, my intention wasn't to cast a bad light on you at all teckel. The vast majority of outdoor retail is made up of ignorant robots, and the quality of service and advice that someone such as yourself offers is to be valued. I was having a go at crisscross...(what a suck, do I keep my discount?)

    WE seems to be good...it's all good really, you know that. Why would you pick them over the other well known brand from Seas to Summit? The other brand has a classy name, uses shiney new age fabrics and is available in bright colours, whilst WE is more trad. I'd own a tent from each, but more from WE for what it's worth... just wondering...
     
  18. chriscross

    chriscross One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    Why "having a go at (sic) crisscross"? I am genuinely interested in the tent discussion. I was not looking for any discount, but rather some information about quality products.What is the issue, MBK ?(What a suck?)
     
  19. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    Seek and yea shall find a leaking story for every brand / model tent made.

    Care, maintenance, site selection and good pitching are more important that the tent selection once you are looking at the well established and time tested tent producers.

    Pretty much all the tents mentioned are good tents but all a slightly different. The decision as to which to select can come down small differences or appreciation of the differences in the end use. For example a Hubba Hubba looks like a great tent for Flinders 4 season walking but I might hesitate to use it on a paddle where we are camping in sand dunes. Something with solid walls at least halfway up the inner might be better to keep out wind blown sand. As for Tassie, unless it has a macpac floor I'd be cautious. Snow camping has different sublties again.

    The good thing is pretty much all the current tents save 1 or 2 kg on their 10 year old forebears.

    In terms of availability I think we do miss out on reasonable access to some excellent European products.

    But it is good to see Ozzies still having a go with One Planet bringing out their range of tents. Selecting between a choice of 2 products for a Xmas gift I ultimately selected the Oz product as otherwise the tents were equal with slight differences that would be alternate strenghts and weaknesses depending on the trip.
     
  20. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    MBK, The 'other Sea to Summit brand' is pretty pricey, and the majority of my customers at present are very restricted in their spending. If I stock WE, it gives me the option to stock the other brand, or order them in on an as needed basis.
     
  21. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    Anyone tried the Mont tents yet?
     
  22. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    telecrag I have excellent reports about the new range of Mont tents.

    Apparently they are a good combination of price, weight, ease or errection and bomb proofness.
     
  23. Mr Bent Knee

    Mr Bent Knee First Runs

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    criscross, I was calling myself a suck after saying nice things about teckel, hoping I would get a discount still! I know you're serious, that's why I was suggesting the things I suggested.

    Teckel, I agree with picking we over BD any day....
     
  24. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    Yes, MBK, you still get a discount, as do all forum regulars [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Yesterday I ordered in the Force Ten Helium 100 tent (Force Ten is Vango's expedition label). Looks great. Just a one man, but weighs under 1 kg and a tough 3 season (northern hemisphere) tent, capable of withstanding big winds, heavy rain and light snow. And its RRP is only $299. It should sell well [​IMG]
     
    #124 teckel, Jan 1, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  25. blacksheep

    blacksheep First Runs

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    yep. next time e-mail me when a good site comes available okay? [​IMG] bugger.
     
    #125 blacksheep, Jan 1, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  26. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    Don't think the map shop was that much bigger than the Eliz St shop floorplan.

    Least in Eliz St you'd get more casual trade, and you rub shoulders with Northface (bwahaha!) and kinda with Kathmandu.
     
    #126 Ziggy, Jan 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2013
  27. blacksheep

    blacksheep First Runs

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    ...that is an evil laugh (re:TNF)...please explain?
     
  28. Mr Bent Knee

    Mr Bent Knee First Runs

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    I think the Ziggster is suggesting that NF is poop...
     
  29. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Another Tent Question...Lightest 4 Season Tent

    Mr Bent Knee, you mean that having a huge advertising budget and being a suburban "bling brand", doesn't automatically make North Face stuff good in the bush? [​IMG]
     
    #129 Bogong, Jan 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  30. DJM

    DJM One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have a theory on this Bogong...

    Just like Oakley sunglasses back in the day, they had a small but loyal following. Quality sunnies, overpriced maybe but good product none the less which gathered momentum and became ultra popular.

    Everyone was wearing them until the mid 90's when suddenly they were too mainstream for the cool people. Poeople started bagging Oakley based on nothing more than a trend change.

    Im not cool and still wear Oakley. [​IMG]

    Same thing happened with Kona MTB's. All the rage until they became too mainstream for some, and suddenly the stigma rears its ugly head. Now all I hear about is how Kona make shite bikes.

    Funny though because the bikes havent changed, and they are IMO good bikes.

    Could it be the same thing with North Face?

    Considering the materials are the same across quite a few major brands and the manufacturing is done OS, is there any problem with the product or has it just become too mainstream and public opinion takes precedence over the actual capabilities of the gear?
     
    #130 DJM, Jan 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  31. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    You may have a point Dibble, but what upsets me is overseas brands coming in and blasting local brands (which are refined for local conditions) out of the water, without making any attempt to "go native" and adapt to local requirements and conditions. Looking at a few foreign brands that have come here:

    * Karimor's packs were notoriously "strappy" and the hooks and do-dads hanging off them seemed to snag on every tree and shrub. Their other stuff was fairly unsuitable for local conditions too. Despite a couple of launches in this country, they have always withdrawn from the market after a few years.

    * Patagonia rented premium shops in the main outdoor strips of Melbourne and Sydney and filled them with their standard US stock without doing any research on either local tastes or local conditions. After 6 months of almost no sales, they finally tried to "go native" and their stock became quite good. But by that time the damage was done and people walked right past their shops.

    * Other overseas companies have done exclusive distribution deals with local retail chains and got the chains to do all the work. This seems to be more successful. The most obvious example of this is Paddy Pallin's deals with Osprey and Western Mountaineering. In the process, Paddymade gear has disappeared.

    * What North Face have done right in this country is ignore serious outdoor people and target kids in the outer suburbs instead. I don't know what their stuff is like and you are right, I probably never will, because when I see adolescents from the outer suburbs with backwards baseball hats wearing North Face clothes while making a nuisance of themselves at railway stations and shopping centres, I want to distance myself from that image as much as possible. But North Face don't care, they sell far more to these kids than they ever would to people like us.

    But I reckon we have some vague duty to buy stuff from antipodean companies that design stuff for us. If companies like One Planet, Mont, WE-STS and blacksheep's MacPac-Fairydown go out of business, we will be forced to use foreign designed gear that isn't always suitable for our prickly scrub and almost unique 2 week scrub bashes in heavy rain in places like western Tassie and Fiordland.

    Many companies like Hallmark, Paddymade, Tika, etc have disappeared, so I'm concerned that we keep the few local companies we have left. All things being equal, I will always buy these brands over foreign ones, especially if the overseas companies come with a "bling" image.
     
  32. Graeme

    Graeme First Runs Endless Winter

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    some brands I can think of, both local and OS, extend their products range enormously over their original core lines. They may still have their original high quality product in the line up, along with the mass market stuff. I suspect TNF is in that category.
     
  33. DJM

    DJM One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thanks for the indepth reply Bogong. I can see your point and I think Graeme may be right.

    I spose TNF could potentially go bust if they focused on specific high end products
    which only BC types would buy as opposed to spreading themselves accross a broad section of the community to ensure stability of the company.

    Probably not selling out, just being smart in a business sense.
     
  34. JimiT

    JimiT First Runs

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    off topic I know... A big part of Kona's bad rep was due to perceived poor customer service particularly re warranty issues.
     
    #134 JimiT, Jan 10, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  35. Mr Bent Knee

    Mr Bent Knee First Runs

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    Kona used to be the king of pretty steel hardtails and none of it was made it Taiwan. Now it all is.

    What Bogong said.....
     
  36. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    yeah my puffer jacket is a black north face i bought 15 years ago - now i'm a gangster
     
  37. satanas

    satanas Addicted

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    As I understood it, Patagucci's problem in Oz was not being able to get stock, being as Oz was last in the queue after North America, Europe and Japan; it was not even possible to special order stuff as it was all pre-sold to other markets. Even basic things were unavailable for long periods, so eventually they gave up when they couldn't supply a decent selection of what was in their catalogs. The problem wasn't lack of imterest but lack of supply - and commitment at the other end. US companies seem to be especially bad in this regard...

    Paddymade the name has disappeared, and locally made stuff has now gone but one major reason for this was that the machinists who made it were reaching retirement age and there were no suitable replacements available. Paddys do still sell stuff with their name on it, sourced from O/S like just about everybody else, but it seems to be only clothing nowadays - as is true of most of the stuff in outdoor shops.

    Re tents: IME, WE and Macpac are excellent as is MSR, and Bibler I-Tent (original name was Impotent, a pun on the Early Winters Omnipotent) is sh1te - I tried to stop mine leaking horrendously for several years and in the process had it professionally tape sealed plus tried every sealant known to mankind; nothing worked. When the (necessary IMO) vestibule is included it's not lighter than a Second Arrow and takes longer to put up, plus has less ventilation. Best avoided!!!
     
    #137 satanas, Jan 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  38. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thanks Satanas. My impressions were just assembled from punter gossip, but alarmingly you sound like you actually know what you're talking about (fairly rare is this forum!)

    My new pack is a wonderful canvas Mont. Designed here and made somewhere in east Asia. I was thinking of getting a locally made One Planet snow bag, but Blacksheep's discount sales lured me in and now I have a wonderful MacPac bag that should keep me warm at the South Pole, (well perhaps not quite the South Pole... )
     
  39. JimiT

    JimiT First Runs

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    that's too bad satanas. My Bibler tent has been awesome. I did carefully put 3 or 4 coats of seam sealer on it before I used it the first time. Never leaked a drop, I don't get any condensation (& I'm the sweat king), its quick to put up. I know a lot of very experience alpine climbers that won't trust any other tent in the mountains.
     
  40. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    *bump*

    Just considering my next piece of gear-whoring...

    Any thoughts on exped tents? vs hilleberg? How do they stack up?
    I really like the idea of these tunnel tents with a x-large front vestibule, such as the hilleberg Nallo 3 GT or an Exped Andromeda for a spacious 2 person winter camp. I've never used exped or hilleberg, but have enjoyed similar tents in the past such as a WE 1st arrow, the features of which I thought were brilliant, but it was a little lacking space-wise for a tent bound storm day.
    In summary, I think this is the road I want to go down, I just would like some opinions either way.
    Thanks, IM.
     
    #140 piolet, May 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
  41. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    additional to say what I liked about the 1st arrow...
    integral assembly - a breeze in breezy, crappy weather;
    was rather bombproof;


    cons for me;
    a little pokey for been confined
    found entry/exit tricky

     
  42. Yurredla

    Yurredla Hard Yards

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    Lightweight = good but I just went the opposite and ordered a MH Trango 2 to replace my aging olympus... spent a week in a Trango 3.1 with 100+km/h winds and 100+mm rain on the main range last september and stayed dry and in one piece... For those trips I'm happy to wear the extra weight. Will be picking up in US on a work trip so total cost ~$600.
     
  43. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    yeah, lotsa thought went into, just pulled the trigger on the uber vestibule andromeda. couldn't get it in oz, but shipped under $600AUD from moontrail. [​IMG]
     
    #143 piolet, May 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  44. legend

    legend One of Us

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    I have both the Hilleberg Kaitum (similar to The Olympus, but only 2.6Kg - have a look on page 370 'where is this' after a good snow dump) and the Hilleberg Nallo2 (weighs 2.1Kg). Both are great mountain tents. They have both copped winds to 140kph and can handle extreme downpours.
     
  45. iGlenn

    iGlenn Hard Yards

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    My latest tent splurge has been a Tarptent Scarp 1. http://www.tarptent.com/scarp1.html
    Very similar to a Hilleberg Akto but with some improvements (imo). Also a bit lighter. I ordered the optional cross poles too which give extra snow loading ability and stability in strong winds. Even with the cross poles it only weighs 1.6kg. From all accounts it is a brilliant little tent.
     
    #145 iGlenn, May 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
  46. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I would be interested to read what you think about it after some use in various Oz conditions. The size vs weight and access certainly look good!
     
    #146 GS, May 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  47. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    More woke than thou.
    One very important thing to remember (that marketing departments would like you to forget), is that ultra lightweight material will not be as strong as mid weight material.

    I've seen brands such as Black Diamond claim their lightweight models are "4 season", but they are made of flimsy material that would easily tear in a strong wind and would be almost guaranteed to leak once they have been used for a year or so and the weather has washed off the coating.

    I'm not recommending a tent made of Kevlar or some other excessively heavy material, (my snow tent only weighs a bit over 3 kg). But you should always remember that a tent's weight and it's degree of "bomb proofness" (and lifespan) are usually inversely proportional.

    So by all means buy a lightweight tent for moderate conditions, but be aware that it won't stand up to a blizzard above the treeline or a downpour in western Tasmania, no matter what the manufacturers marketing says. You may not like hearing it, but I've seen lots of lightweight American brands fail in severe conditions.
     
  48. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Still swear by my BD Betamid with Whippet added snow flaps in extreme weather.
     
  49. iGlenn

    iGlenn Hard Yards

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    I hear what you are saying Bogong and generally i agree. Notwithstanding there are some very good, 4 season "bomber" tents available these days which 5 years ago would have been considered ultra lightweight. Case in point is the Hilleberg Nallo. I have the Nallo 3 GT and for the size of this thing, the weight and strength of it are pretty bloody good. The vestibule itself is big enough for 2 people to comfortably sleep in and yet the whole tent weighs around 2.6kg.

    Whether the tarptent scarp falls into this "bomber" category i'm yet to find out for myself. I will definitely be taking it above the snowline this winter to check. There are some photos somewhere on the interwhebz with it still standing under a couple of foot of wet heavy snow.

    Can i presume most of the lightweight american brands that you have witness fail have been single skin? IMO single skin tents have very little relevance to australian conditions.
     
  50. tinderrydave

    tinderrydave First Runs

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    A friend had the Hillberg Nallo 3 hiking in Sweden in 2005. I thought at the time "why don't we have tents like that in Australia"

    Then I looked at the price....

    Still, an excellent tent, and the weight is very fine.