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AT Bindings

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by skifree, Aug 31, 2014.

  1. Boodwah

    Boodwah A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Everything is tech now.
    After several years of heavy clunky rubbish, even Marker have finally realised that:
     
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  2. Legion

    Legion One of Us

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    I did some pretty sketchy tours with Trekkers years ago and they were fine ...

    ... they did break on me in the middle of a super sketchy spot once though, scaring the *#@! out of me and putting me in a difficult situation. Cold sweats despite very cold temperatures and a long time recovering. Shouldn't have been there in the first place I guess.
     
  3. Bloke

    Bloke One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    How much do the kingpins weigh?
     
  4. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    730g ea
     
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  5. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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  6. Bloke

    Bloke One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Cheers. Should have referenced the 'Doyenne' of back country blogging first, but good to have the weight listed in the thread for posterity.

    For the record, I put my Radical FTs (2013 model?) on the scales and they come in at a smidgen under 600g each, so the weight penalty on the Kingpins isn't too bad considering what else you get.
     
  7. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    A mate of mine who I ski BC a lot with made a good point - he's an engineer and said that in his mind 130g penalty per foot is well justified as far as he is concerned for the DIN/ISO release.

    I think a lot of people will think the same way.
     
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  8. Bloke

    Bloke One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Starting with Boodwah and his busted thumb?
     
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  9. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Speed turn is 330g (350gm weighed at home) per binding.
     
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  10. Bloke

    Bloke One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    So light! But I guess that's a different class of tech binding? Whereas kingpin and radical are broadly in the same class i.e. as Lou calls it 'freeride touring'
     
  11. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    I dunno.

    But yeah, I guess they are pitched at the same market.

    Check out the RC-1!
     
  12. Bloke

    Bloke One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    575gm per binding and boot - yowser!
     
  13. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Now this is a binding, 75 grams. It makes a KingPin look obese.
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver A Local

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    Rando race. Awesome bit of kit. The F1 of bindings for the lycra set.
     
  15. Boodwah

    Boodwah A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    One of the reasons I've been trending lighter and lighter (apart from wanting to move long distances) is that I want to get my kids out there, which initially means carrying much more than I otherwise would. I'd be happy enough to ski conservatively on a pair of the above if I was doing e.g. Boges to Hotham - or just the Razorback with my 9 year old. I also like all this hyper-light gear because I don't get stung for excess on aeroplanes (no easy task when travelling with my wife). Current lightest rig boots/ski/binding/poles < 5kg.
    However. I also think that tech is starting to cross the boundaries of crazy light Vs safety/adequately robust. And these things just don't cut it if you want to ski aggressively. This season, in addition to a busted thumb (I'll be sporting an extra 50g of titanium this time tomorrow), I've busted a pair of Dynafit boots (for the 3rd time), a pair of La Sportiva boots, a pair of Komperdell poles and a pair of Dynafit poles.
     
  16. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Light, strong and cheap.... pick any two......
     
  17. Boodwah

    Boodwah A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Without the ability to pole on Sunday, I took the pattern bases out for the first time in a while. Whilst extremely practical, the DPSs have spoilt me, and I was surprised by how poorly the Rossi BC125s' skied. Back to morning neuroses pontificating which ski to take out.
     
  18. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Pattern Base = Bean trellises.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Simonwar

    Simonwar Hard Yards

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    What Dynafits were you running? I just started skiing the Beast 16 (have slimmed down from Guardian 16) and managed to get a toe to release on hard, icy 'groomers' over on Orchard last week.

     
  20. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo

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    What AT binding are there, that accommodates standard alpine boots, and will fit on 76mm waisted skis, other than Marker Barons ?

    And I'd prefer ones that transition without unclipping.
     
  21. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think I will get some Tour 12 EPF mounted on my Cochise for my Canada trip ski.

    Should work well with my Full Tilts.

    Hey CM .... is the mounting pattern the same for Griffon and the Tour 12 ?
     
    #121 dawooduck, Sep 4, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
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  22. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Marker Tour F12 EPF (have to unclip)
    Salomon Guardian / Atomic Tracker 13
    Tyrolia Adrenalin 13
     
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  23. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo

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    So the Guardian 13 and Tracker 13 would be ok on 76mm waist. I thought they might be a little wide.
     
  24. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ski needs to be 80mm wide under the toepiece. Might be close but should be OK.
     
  25. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo

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    Thanks. I checked and it's about 84mm under toe piece.
     
  26. stuarth

    stuarth Addicted Endless Winter

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    Five years ago I did a tour on my old Fritshci freerides and I was an anomaly. Everyone else was on the then standard dynafits & so were all my other friends. I have been on Dynafit verticals for the last four years. None of the people I ski with are on anything other than dynafits (radical / vertical etc ) for touring or ski-mountaineering. Some of them use Markers for patrolling or heliskiing but overwhelmingly they are on dynafit rigs. Unless you are doing something quite particular - super long & fast tours needing ultra-light gear or super, super steep no fall terrain, I'm not sure there is much argument for searching beyond fairly standard tech bindings (dynafit, plum & ??). On the other hand, Boodwah's injury has made me consider adjusting my DIN settings in response to the conditions & environment more actively (& defintitely has me wishing I was tough enough to break my thumb & address the problem by strapping the pole to my arm to keep skiing).
     
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  27. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah after a trip to France I kinda saw the writing on the wall and jumped in the deep end and got a full Dynafit rig as my first touring setup.

    Regret level has been zero, and I'm thrilled to see the new innovation since I did it, on both the boot and binding side.

    I think it's pretty fair to say that I'll never tour with a frame binding, and given I stock Marker and G3 I am very keen to see the new Kingpin and Ion bindings.

    I think I will wax and wane with weights depending on intended usage - there is a Haute Route on the horizon so I will need nice and light gear for that, but I also think there's place in my kit for a wider ski with a Kingpin depending on the destination.
     
  28. Boodwah

    Boodwah A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    TLT Speed Radical. Chattery ice might have had something to do with it. They've never released like that before.
     
  29. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Multiple sets of kit starts eating into the adventure budget.
     
  30. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    When I went out with Muzz he discovered you need to carry a pick, or ice build up under the middle of the toe piece stops them engaging properly (he was on Plum), but you think you are in, and get an unwanted release. Also saw a patroller from Perisher skiing back on one ski after blowing the toe piece out of his boot, at the bottom of the Sentinel. The boots were pretty worn though.

    Any gear can fail, I would not ski tour specific gear inbounds other than a first go to nut it out, it is not designed to take that much vert in a day. Think about how many runs you do outside, and a day inbounds must take a week or more off the life.

    IMO.
     
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  31. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hence go straight to dynafiddle...... unless you are running a WC course or bombing big AK lines for TGR it works.
     
  32. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    $1200 is 3 Cat ski days ...... and all I want is to skin into the lines I want which are never that far away.
     
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  33. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    You get sucked in and then it becomes more about the journey....
     
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  34. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Glass half full kinda guy huh? hehehehe

    $1200 is years of touring the best terrain Australia has.
     
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  35. BrianWilson

    BrianWilson One of Us

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    I've had the same issue with ice build up under the toe piece, resulting in unwanted releases. I always carry a leatherman or pocket knife and clean out the snow after every skin up.
     
  36. Simonwar

    Simonwar Hard Yards

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    Yep, having a release on hard icy stuff kinda blew my faith in the binding. Had a closer look after the fall and found the release value on the ski that first popped off had been set two notches below the other ski (my bad for not checking new gear properly). Adjusted and haven't been able to replicate. That said, all was forgiven as soon as I had them out touring. I won't be running a heavy frame style binding ever again.
     
  37. Bloke

    Bloke One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Big glob of vas under the toe piece also sorts out the problem.
     
  38. Bloke

    Bloke One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    With the Radicals, I've found that I need to have the lateral release setting higher than the vertical release setting. Anyone else noticed this?
     
  39. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm reluctant to ski my Dynafits in-bounds simply because they are expensive, and I don't want to put wear and tear on them while not doing what I got them to do - tour.

    Consider the miles you can rack up in a resort day compared to a touring day, combine that with harder, bumpier snow and high speeds, it's just a recipe to wear out a Dynafit, raising the chances of a failure next time you're out back.

    I would 100% go for a frame binding if I wanted to have a good mix of in and out of resort skiing on a rig.
     
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  40. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver A Local

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    I carry a compressor and an air gun but I make sure I'm on the lightest gear I can get.:woohoo:

    This helps when I have the two cartons of beer and the barbeque in my back-pack. Oh and in an effort to cute a few more grams, I've switched to touring nude. It's quite liberating.:cheers:

    I love these wingding things, here's another one:evil::out::doh:
     
  41. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver A Local

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    Agree.. I suppose if I owned a ski shop I would have a set up for all occasions. Ok I do but (not own a ski shop) there are limitations if you travel a fair bit with your skiing or want to have that versatility, easily accessible. ie ski the resort in the morning and BC in the afternoon.

    I really believe that's the sweet spot for the new gear like KingPin. Obviously touring specific is better for touring and vice versa but that ability to increase your downhill experience after putting in the effort is high on the hit list.

    Even boot wise, when you're working on mountain and you are changing in and out of different skis for different tasks etc. Lugging two pair of boots around and a couple pairs of skis can become a pain in the ar5e.

    VERSATILITY ...
     
  42. stuarth

    stuarth Addicted Endless Winter

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    In spring type conditions (anywhere things are melting&freezing) I try to remember to push the toe piece down if I am out of the ski for any much time so that an obstruction can't form in the operating space. Sometimes I even actually remember...
     
  43. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    My next "Alpine" boots will be the K2 Pinnacle 130. Stiff & heavy with walk mode and tech fittings. They will ostensibly be for alpine skiing, the walk mode mainly because I like to stand up straight where possible and the tech fittings are a bonus. Then I'll get a lighter weight touring boot suitable for big days and multi-day hikes. Still needs to ski well though.
     
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  44. BrianWilson

    BrianWilson One of Us

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    Right on with the nude touring DPSD - Men of the Backcountry Calender could be making a comeback :)

    Same issue with sourcing the lightest gear in skiing happens in road cycling as well. I see so many people drop huge $$$$ on the latest carbon this and that when they would be better off spending their $$$ on Jenny Craig and dropping some weight.
     
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  45. nfip

    nfip Cold n' Rusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes.
    I though a lot about this before I got my latest rig 18 months back.
    Was tempted with the Scarpa or other lighter options.
    Really had to be honest that I was not going to be hard core touring and it would honestly be 80 / 20 ish..
    Jump out side or bc from resort lift or day trip here or there.
    So the barons where the go.
    And still are as they get hammered in bounds and side.... Oz and OS.
    I ended up with Lange XT , the downhill is soo good , bit heavy on the up I guess - but I know nothing else.

    If it was 80/20 the other way then I'm on the Dynafit / Plum (Kingpin !) team.
     
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  46. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    well put, excellent value!

    Makes me wonder why I fretted over dropping $350 on my exped snow tent those years ago, the $/night must be pretty good by now :D
     
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  47. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Tele hijack on an AT thread, though my boots do have fiddle fittings.

    Other week on frozen cord, doing at least 60, the vibration must hit a frequency, and my climbing bail on the NTN pops up. Awkward I tells ya. Must get a small velcro strap to make sure it doesnt happen again.
     
  48. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    But that's the thing, its all accessible in a day and the really good stuff is a boot pack back out.
     
  49. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I ditched the compromise boots this year, Technica Cochise, and sprung for a pair of Scarpa Maestral and could not be happier. The only time the Cochise came out was for a half day on the Kastle BMX108 (@188cm) which have alpine bindings and need a bit more power to drive them. The Maestral have been been more than enough boot to drive my DPS Wailer 105 Pure (@188cm) and G3 Barons (@186cm). If the alpine race skis ever come out again I will see if I still fit into my Lange Comps.
     
  50. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    That is one of the interesting parts of the binding\boot\ski equation …. Phat bend skis are more pivot focussed than drive focussed so perhaps they don’t require a tough boot\binding combination as much.

    Who needs and edge in powder snow ?

    The devolution evolution