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Backcountry Skis?

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Spence, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver A Local

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    Yes 2x40 would be fine.

    But do you need splits. If you only need the skins for one pair of skis get the Contour Hybrid full cover.
     
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  2. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Disclaimer : Never used splits but they would depend more on the glue esp when wet and skillfully placing them esp in windy conditions.
    Seems main advantage is applicable to different width skis.
    If you are climbing stuff that is fairly steep its good to have all the grip you can, hence never considered them.
     
  3. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    All skins were 35 or 40mm strips not so long ago weren’t they?!
     
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  4. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yeah might still have some 40 -45 s but the ski waist was 55 then and flapping in strong winds was a thing.
     
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  5. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes thanks good point - two strips means double the weak points to admit moisture/ lose grip on base.

    Maybe the full length is the go for Rustler - cut the 115 with tool so 95% cover at tip & tail. And 94 waist of course.

    I was also thinking Pomoca prior to this thread but sounds like glue / WP better sorted in Countour.
     
  6. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver A Local

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    The splits are fine to use, in fact they're great if you do want one skin for several pairs of skis but if you only have one pair of touring skis then I think it's better to kit them with a full width skin.

    If I was to go with a hot melt skin I would choose Pomoca but once you use Contour Hybrid Mix you won't go back to hot melt.
     
  7. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Am I able to apply the Contour glue to an old glueless but perfectly good skins?
     
  8. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver A Local

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    The Contour glue is two seperate sheets of glue. You can buy rolls of it but it would be too expensive to do this yourself. Bruce at Wilderness may have some. You can give it a go but the skin would have to be very clean with no hot-melt glue residue remaining.
     
  9. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    They are actually old gecko skins & the fabric has this rubber like treatment under the glue (the glue is now cleaned off) and the hot melt BD glue won’t stick to it.
     
  10. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver A Local

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    I suggest you take them in to show Bruce. I can't be sure sight unseen.

    If Bruce has some glue there you could sample a bit perhaps.
     
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  11. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    DIY!

     
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  12. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver A Local

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    This is a great example of the worth of a Contour skin. This is what's required to clean them. Some cleaning solution or you can use soapy water and a sponge. Then hang them in the sun for 5 minutes and they're good to go again.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    OK quite savage good for American system adaption but if you have the euro system in the first place, no need, the stretchy front clip works .
    You can just buy the front clips alone.
    Some skis have a front hole also eg some Fischers , K2 s.
     
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  14. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I notice we’ve run out of love / chat about skins after a blood good run.

    How about another random thought to take minds of the dreaded lurgy on other threads?

    Has anyone in recent years tried, discussed with a salesperson or researched the Atomic Backland BC ski? I note there’s a few older postings here but not much this year - much more banter about the Backland boots.

    FWIW; they seem to offer reasonable BC downhill control in a very light weight (~ 1,350 - 1,550g per ski dep. on exact model). That would remove significant weight off a BC / AT or Tele set up. It seems as light as say a K2 Wayback & lighter than most /many equivalent BC skis like the ZeroG or Völkl models? (VT??)

    I note the 107 seems to be more common, even here, and would seem to be good for OS while the 95 would seem to be better Aussie width.

    Interesting though, for 2020/21 there seems to be a new ‘100mm’ waist model which could be in that great Sweet spot for handling firm and soft and hence maybe worth considering as one’s Oz/OS BC ski?

    Any thoughts folks. Worth a chat at a store store? Maybe a demo sometime?
    Thinking the 100 will be pretty scarce for the first year or two & then might outsell the 107 in Oz/NZ?
     
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  15. Team Weasel

    Team Weasel One of Us

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    I've got a pair of the Ultralight 85s. Very cool ski for spring shenanigans. Love the tip notch for transitions, and they ski really well for their weight.

    Also have a mate on the standard Backland 95. He loves em. I reckon the whole series is pretty sweet, just pick your width.
     
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  16. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Cool, thanks TW. Good feedback. Do you guys Tele or AT BTW?

    Will take a look at new season arrivals? (;-)
     
  17. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    I know its a great topic and distraction but honestly most skis and boots these days are so much better than what we used until about 2000 .
    Jump and 2 step turns were the rule on really steep stuff , go back now and just laugh.
    As a general rule those of us who have been doing it for 30-40 years are prolly more conservative about width ,I know my friends are.
     
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  18. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Oh yeah I tele but same things apply that as you get older, you can still ski downhill, its the big uphills thats the problem so weight becomes the big issue .
    Generally teles are much easier in variable snow so width is not such an issue.
     
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  19. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    agreed I had a heap of fun at Buller last year on 118s ( as an experiment) on just 2-5 cm of melting fresh on a firmish early Aug base.

    did I need that width? Not on your Nelly! Was it fun? You betcha! Glad I tried. Shows when its not sheet ice options are so much broader!!
     
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  20. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Mate of mine found some stuff from the surfing industry - pretty cheap too I believe. Think they use it to glue boards down while they are shaping them with tools. Not sure if this is it but . . . washable, re-usable, removable. He made up some experimental skins using a strange, fish-scale type material bought from Spotlight and a glue like this. They worked fine, though he didn't use them much as he didn't have the right boots and bindings for the walking.
    https://www.ebay.com.au/i/303258608...MIlpWFprub6AIVk6yWCh3NGAJ4EAQYBCABEgKwQ_D_BwE
     
  21. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    They worked fine, though he didn't use them much.
    Not much of a recommendation .Proper skins are worth buying .
    If you want to really experiment with climbing you can make el cheapo knotted ropes like ladder chains .I made some they worked but
    I wouldnt though.
     
  22. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think I saw this in an old ski annual once. Can’t say it appealed very much.
    Mind you neither did klister or Voile snake skins! Grip wax marginally better but way too hard in Aussie.

    Buy skins or scaly skis. Or go lifts. ;)
     
  23. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Oh yes in the bad old days of klister . It was tricky at Falls + BHP because its so rolling .
    At least snake skins can go over klister but no glide.
    When Karhu brought out the Guides about 2006 ,which seem to have a nice balance between grip and glide, that all was abandoned.
    Always used skins at Bogong and Main range, wider skins are heavier but heaps more grip not a fan of walking up.
     
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  24. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes getting the best compromise between grip and glide is the key. Neither scenario is great at each extreme.
    A good compromise is to use well waxed kickers for long gradual approaches but have handy a pair of full length skins (I.e maybe trying Contour?) for when the gradient increases.

    in an ideal world if all of ones ski lengths are within 10 cm of each other and one cuts their skins to the narrowest ski, one pair of skins could do a quiver but life is rarely that simple. Perhaps a couple of widths/lengths is more realistic? I’ll get back to you on that. (;-)
     
  25. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    hi again TM just wondering if you’ve heard how good the float is on the BKLD95s? Did they use in fresh here or OS?

    Coming from an 83mm waist until recently, I imagine the 85 may struggle in the deep or heavy Oz snot?

    At 95-100mm one expect a modern rocketed ski to get up and boogey - usually! ⛷❄️
     
  26. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    This is probably a silly series of questions but here goes anyway

    Are touring skis Alpine Touring/AT skis? What's the difference between AT and XC and Nordic and telemarking skis? Is it differences in the technique of the skiing and/or differences in the technology of the skis?

    When people talk about 'backcountry skis' are they usually referring to AT skis? And how are they different from downhill skis - is it just the weight and the heel lift thingo for walking uphill?

    EDIT: and what are kickers? and I've seen mention of the pattern on the base??
     
  27. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Touring skis/ back country skis = anything not going downhill from a lift = AT + XC + Telemarking .
    Kickers are half length skins so more glide less grip or pattern base ie fishscales =ideal for moderate rolling terrain..
     
  28. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    AT skis - usually lightweight alpine skis with special bindings that pivot at the toe and allow the heel to move when in uphill mode. Frame bindings allow normal alpine ski boots to used. Pin/tech bindings (invented by Dynafit) require boots with tech inserts to us. To get traction uphill, skins have to be attached to the ski, which are removed for skiing downhill.

    Telemarking - usually lightweight alpine skis fitted with half a binding. Useful for genuflection.

    XC - half a ski fitted with half a binding. Useful for impersonating chickens.
     
  29. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    ;)
    Nailed it in one! Esp the chickens although short footed penguin could work? ;)
     
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  30. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    You don't want to know, really you don't.
     
  31. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Drop by Wilderness Sports and get Beck or Bruce or Roz to run you through it all with examples next time you are down South.
     
  32. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    And there you go with a sensible reply..........
     
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  33. Dropbear

    Dropbear Hard Yards

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    I'm keen on the idea of getting Fisher Profoil skins - scaly skins! But looking online (for Aussie shops or online stores), they seem really hard to find... A compounding issue is unless you have Fisher skis, you need the model with the metal loop attachment for the top of the ski instead of the Fisher-specific hook attachment.

    Does anyone know where to get them?

    My intended use for them is for flatter longer distance stuff on the BHP and in KNP. I had Dynafit skis + skins last year on the BHP, and found they were a bit too much of a hassle on the flats. Swapping briefly to a mate's skis, who was running Fisher skis and Profoil skins, I found his skins much nicer to glide on, and still quite capable uphill. The only thing that wasn't so nice was the loud vrrrring noise they made on ice...
     
  34. Team Weasel

    Team Weasel One of Us

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    My mate used them in Oz and Japan, and they coped with softer snow up to 20cm or so. He just loved them for their reliability - whatever the conditions, he knew he could trust the ski not to do anything too weird.

    I don't think you can go wrong with either the 95 or the 107. Lots of skis in this category though - Black Crows, Blizzard, Salomon...
     
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  35. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    thanks TM good to know. Some really light skis aren’t too flash on the down according to reviews like Blister, Ski Essentials, etc...

    from my recent Japanese BC tour where I used my great but heavy alpine tele set up (Enforcer 104), I could see how good a light 107 Would be.

    For Aus only maybe the 95 is better. But if the new 100 is available over the next year that could be the sweet crossover width.
     
  36. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Some really light skis aren’t too flash on the down
    Nah just marketing crap, bc the snow is mostly smoother than bumpy pistes, you generally wont be skiing it at warp speed if its steep or firm with decent technique its OK .
    Well you arent going to go and buy heavier skis are you ?.
     
  37. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    No way!! I have plenty (~ 3 ) mid- heavy models (94 -118mm); would like to get something more around the 1500g or even less, something my lighter Excursions can handle.

    In addition to some better-gliding skins (like Contour hybrid) - this would cut abt 1-1.5 kg (dep on which ski it displaces) per foot. Hard to sneeze at that!

    My old PowderBirds are lighter ~ 1900g each but at 83mm waist - it’s a little narrow some days even here.
     
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  38. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    This is the current Wailer 100 RP.

    For the performance on the down you’ll be pushed to find a lighter ski.
     
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  39. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    impressively light Skifree - if they ski as nicely as the Wailer 99 Alchemists I hired back in 2018 you’ll have a ball.
     
  40. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have been, most of last season Japan for 2 weeks.
     
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  41. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    My Aus bc skis at 178 cm x 78 waist = 1370 g so the Wailer x100 waist =1400 g is impressively light.
    As said before telemark boots are bullet proof but have failed to keep up with alpine , smaller market ?.
     
  42. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    that’s pretty light too. I have 200 cm Morottos Tele which sound ok for my 190cm / 113kg frame but in reality I struggle to turn them in heavy mash so they’re just a ‘light’ trail sk now days
     
  43. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Telemarkers as a rule are cheapskates who wouldn't buy a brilliantly engineered tele boot just because..... way too expensive (maybe $1k with carbon fibre).... and my leather 3 pin still have some life in them after a trip to the bootmaker to get restitched for the 15th time.

    I reckon any developments in tele gear will come from AT'ers who feel the urge to genuflect from time to time. Will be a lightweight book with bellows but locking for alpine turns and a Mojito type toe with an AT heel. Not that much additional engineering. But the telemarkers will not be the ones buying it.
     
  44. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    1980gm with binding, leash and stickers :)

     
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  45. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ok part #2 - my next width is Fischer Alltrax alpine 68mm - these were my ‘wide’ lift skis 15 years ago.

    they’re set up for 75mm release, quite light (need to weigh them!), turn ok, tour well but ‘can’ struggle in deep heavy snow.

    Forgive the waffle here! Better than CV @#$&#@!
    ........

    The Rossi PBird turn better (more rocker) at 83mm not a bad Aussie width but they don’t have much camber (176 is a bit short for me) and seem to force a kicker skin To drag rather than glide while diagonal striding. Still a nice turning ski so can be good for short jaunts like Stirling. At 1900g they’re fairly heavy for their float.

    The Rustler 9 is a good Oz size (w & L) for short tours but at ~ 2.05 kg each one feels the weights when added to full nylon skins and TX Pro, but better with kicker skins.

    As mentioned earlier, my new Nordica Enforcer 104s (186cm) were great on piste in Japan but at almost 2.3 kg with inserts, I found I was a bit old, heavy and slow to keep up with the (young/light) group on a day tour with Evergreen. Coming Down in BC in the deep they were again excellent.

    so a very nice quiver not really complaining- very first problem here.

    Should I get back to Japan some day, and do another tour, my plan would be to find something light and wide like those DPS or similar or wide like an Atomic Backland?

    I think then my garage will have burst it seems - if not perhaps my domestic financial controller will have done!! ;)

    But hey like ski trips (oh & new guitars & amps); planning is half the fun! :cool: :skier:
     
  46. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Telemarkers as a rule are cheapskates who wouldn't buy a brilliantly engineered tele boot just because
    Some truth in that , we are the more aware eco friendly skiers.
    Oldies on the pension are cheapskates and conservative [ I cant believe some of the shit skis I see year after year ] but not every boomer is poor and there are the younger ones with jobs who are sensitive to change.
     
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  47. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    and stickers? That’s it sold! Almost ready to convert??
     
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  48. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Gave away all my shit skis years ago i cant go backwards and enjoy turning a last century unshaped long ski.
     
  49. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    But the boots.... 3 years old so not the latest, with footbeds 2,587 g for the pair

     
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  50. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yeah I am jealous FB my boots are T4 ,very low and low tech and weigh about 2.8 kg.