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Best all mountain ski for Australia

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Annabuzzy, May 19, 2015.

  1. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    SDS time and our season is now on our doorstep. Time to talk gear for Australian conditions. The best one ski quiver for oz.

    So a few preconditions;

    1. It's a ski for Australia.
    2. It's for what I assume is the core ski.com.au demographic - advanced recreational skiers - not experts.
    3. It's a one ski quiver.
    4. It's for "all mountain".

    I'm going to throw a ski out there I've never skied just to get the ball rolling. I mean people recommend a particular ski as "best ever" when it's the only ski they've used in 5 years so why limit myself? I can say though that if I was looking for a new ski for use primarily in Oz this would be it. It looks cool. It has a great name. I liked its predecessors. It's the Head Monster 88. It would rip everything although maybe with some trade off in bumps in particular because of its relative stiffness.

    I have a feeling lots of folk will call out the Blizzard Brahma but, whatevs...
     
  2. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    Whatever is under my feet at the time....
     
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  3. Nowada

    Nowada Addicted

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    There is no such thing. Everybody is different. I am small and light so my perfect all mountain ski would be different to someone 20kg heavier and 15cm taller than me. Different styles of skiing will also decide things like sidecut. There are so many different skis out there and I bet all of them are perfect for somebody..
     
  4. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    The best ski for OZ is the pair you bought and spent 20+ days on in the northern hemisphere
     
  5. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    I have six pairs to choose from, from 63mm slalom to 108mm powder skis. The only thing I think of is touring = Scarpa boots and skis with Dynafiddle bindings. Not touring = not Scarpa boots and not Dynafiddle bindings.
     
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  6. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Atomic Redster FIS SG 210 cm. They will handle anything ya throw at em.
     
  7. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Blizzard Brahma is too much ski for a lot of people. But definitely the right ski for others.

    We've put a lot of thought into this category this year and ordered accordingly. Every skier is different of course, but I think that for someone who is a decent skier, and likes skiing on and off piste, we think around the 90mm waist width is right, tip rocker, minor tail rocker and a partial sheet of metal.

    The skis we've ordered this year to suit are the Brahma, Nordica NRGY90, Atomic Vantage 90 CTi, Salomon Q90 and Line Supernatural 92.

    For women: Blizzard Black Pearl, Nordica Wild Belle, Atomic Vantage 90 CTi W, Salomon Q Lux 88, Line Soulmate 92.

    For those who want a twin-tip - Line Chronic or K2 Shreditor 92

    For those who want something a little narrower that is more biased to on-piste than off, but can still ski all-mountain: K2 Ikonic 85, Nordica NRGY 80, Atomic Vantage 85, Salomon Q85.

    All of the skis differ in their own ways - I've talked 2 customers out of the Brahma recently, one got the Vantage 90 CTi, the other the NRGY 90.

    http://aussieskier.com/collections/skis/all-mountain-skis
     
  8. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Atomic Vantage Theory looks like a good all round intermediate ski.
     
  9. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Discontinued now. They now have the Vantage 90 and the Vantage 100. Tim loved them at ski test.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sell some on E Bay for the Bigsby Fund
     
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  11. DidSurfNowSki

    DidSurfNowSki One of them Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think your specs need some work. Ski must be able to handle ice, slush, bumps, rocks, tree roots, grass and the occasional pocket of soft snow all found in 1 run.
     
  12. Doonks

    Doonks Let's cook! Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    In order to find the best all mountain ski, you have to first ski all of the mountain
     
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  13. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    My Morphics work on everything. Looking for a new ski next year that can match or exceed it. Used to be a bit of an Atomic fanboy, the Vantage?
     
  14. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    I can't get excited about all mountain skis, they're just so beige to ski on.
     
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  15. Wardy

    Wardy One of Us

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    Been on the Atomic Vantage Alibi for 18 months. Love it. Skied Whistler, Thredbo and Niseko on them in most conditions inc knee deep Niseko and boilerplate Whistler. Simply a great all round ski.
     
  16. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    All mountain grown from 75 to 90mm width ....must be all that snow making
     
    #16 dawooduck, May 20, 2015
    Last edited: May 20, 2015
  17. azzski

    azzski Should know better Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Found it very noodly. Might be OK for lighter skiers though.
     
  18. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Afternoon slush.

    Haven't skied both so can't make an exact comparison but the Libertys are characterised by their lively bamboo cores, the Atomic is likely to be a bit more damp.
     
  19. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Aah, thanks CM, I do like that liveliness. I have some Varient, but I find them far less versatile, kind of a fat GS ski to be honest. Although they like the soft stuff too, but only really have one speed.
     
  20. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Beige is the new yellow!
     
  21. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Morning ice cube
     
  22. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    And that's where the compromise of the all-mountain ski comes in. Virtually nobody enjoys skiing on ice so I always prefer to point to a ski that can 'navigate' ice and comes in to its own in the rest of the conditions we encounter.
     
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  23. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Depends on your definition of ice. I hear so many people saying, wow its icy, when I think its firm and fast. Real ice is pretty much unskiable.
     
  24. Zimboo

    Zimboo A Local

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    Maybe a ski for "all conditions" rather than "all mountain" best suits most punters for Australia?
     
  25. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Took me years before i skied Friday Flat, and could finally say I have skied ALL the mountain!
     
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  26. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah it's a misnomer, an all-mountain ski is whatever you want it to be.

    I've always had a few pairs of skis at my disposal, and now I have many more. But I always tend to gravitate to a single pair of favourites for the majority of conditions.

    For me in Australia it's a fairly stiff, 90mm, ~18m radius, wood core, partial titanal ski with a bit of tip rocker. Historically that's been a Line Prophet 90, last year I went with a Blizzard Bonafide but found it a shade wide, this year it will probably be a Brahma but would gladly ski a Supernatural 92, NRGY90 or Vantage 90CTi.

    But that's just for me - I like to ski fast, I prefer medium or long turns all over the mountain and this kind of ski works best for me. But someone who likes shorter turns and more piste skiing is better off on something around 80mm with a ~15m radius etc etc.
     
  27. Zimboo

    Zimboo A Local

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    Question: Off topic.......Would carbon fiber run at 45 degrees instead of 90 degrees make a ski stiffer?
     
  28. BoofHead

    BoofHead One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    running cloth on the bias will make it stronger but I don't know about stiffer.
     
  29. Zimboo

    Zimboo A Local

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    Just interested if CarveMan or anyone else may have discussed this with ski manufacturers? Murray Bourton (surfboard shaper / manufacturer) has pushed this in surfboard laminates for years. Certainly increases strength in surfboards against snapping.
     
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  30. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    K2 have had their 'triaxial braiding' for 25 years - back then it was kevlar not CF but I'm sure the principles apply. I'm no mechanical engineer though so I can't comment with any authority however it depends if you're talking a full carbon wrap or 'stringers' - most skis with carbon stringers run them longitudinally but when a ski is full carbon (or partial carbon like the Bonafide tips/tails) it runs on the diagonal.
     
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  31. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Zimboo it won't affect flex, if that is what you are talking about re "stiffer". Also you must distinguish between fibreglass and carbon fibre.

    All Hybrid DPS Wailers use triaxial fibreglass with standard weave prepreg carbon fibre stringers. The carbon fibre is aligned directionally not triaxial. The carbon fibre is to add stiffness to the flex while the triaxial fibreglass is for strength and other benefits. Muzzas surfboard theory is really based on the weave direction not the introduction of the carbon fibre. I'm a mate of Muzzas and have had many discussions with him about this. The carbon fibre is more of a marketing tool re board manufacture but you didn't hear it from me.

    Re the triaxial fibreglass. I believe it's more about directional forces and pressure that delivers a better outcome for surfboards. That effect is relevant to skis but due to different materials and manufacturing criteria less so on skis but still important. It is stronger and a far better product to use as there are other advantages which are relevant. One benefit with Triaxial is less topsheet chipping on the edges due to the weave direction and increased torsional rigidity, again due to weave direction

    It certainly is a better quality glass but it comes at a premium price and that is why a lot of manufacturers won't use it.
     
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  32. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Re best ski well i'm biased but it's a toss up between:

    Hybrid Wailer 99. Light poppy with bamboo wood core and carbon fibre stringers
    or
    Hybrid T2 (double titanal topsheet) Cassiar 95. Centred, stable plow through anything.
     
  33. Zimboo

    Zimboo A Local

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    Interesting, thanks for your input CarveMan, DPS Driver. Yes I was just using Murray Bourtons diagonal fibreglass as an example of the theory, and how that may cross over onto skis. What got me thinking was CarveMans pic of the Atomic Vantage 90CTI with the distinct 90 degree carbon mesh. If the carbon mesh ran diagonal, how different would the ski perform?
     
  34. benchives

    benchives Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I knew this was Anna's thread just by looking at the title!
     
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  35. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Is it carbon or a cosmetic top sheet?
     
  36. Zimboo

    Zimboo A Local

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  37. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Tank Mesh! With a name like that it mustn't be cosmetic.
     
  38. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Incidentally with far less technical knowledge than Carveman his take on the ideal all mountain ski for Oz for the beef of the market is really closely aligned with my thoughts. I was really coming to the view full metal was overkill for most people and it's personally heartening to see the experts are sitting in a similar place that partial metal is the sweet spot.
     
  39. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    What they have developed is very similar to Volkl vwerks. They are taking components out of the ski to get a lighter ski and working on what they can to resolve the flex and torsional rigidity once they've taken out the full sidewall and half the core. What I am saying here isn't a slight against either Atomic or Volkl. In fact it was told to me by a Volkl sponsored skier after four years of testing Volkl's attempts at making a Pure pre-preg carbon fibre ski but they kept breaking. He asked me how we did it.
    In saying this, it should ski well but it's a glass ski with a layer of wet lay-up carbon fibre same as the vwerks. This ski more closely reflects our Hybrid except for the addition of the titanal. The tank mesh is effectively a loose weave carbon fibre, so less carbon fibre than a full weave sheet to save construction dollars. Because they used the loose weave they then need the titanal to add beef to the ski. The combination of the two should make a really nice ski.
    In answer to your question Zimboo, considering the construction elements no difference and it would probably cost more because they would get less coverage if they ran the tank mesh diagonally.
    The interesting thing will be to see how these skis are holding up after 200-300 days with the core reduction.
     
  40. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep I think the partial metal sheet is the way to go. Skis like the Supernatural and the Vantage have a metal section extending up the middle of the ski, the NRGY has a wider sheet but with sections CNC milled out of it.

    The Bonafide/Brahma have 2 full titanal sheets and a 3rd underfoot for good measure. This is why we are talking as many people out of them as we are selling - that said Blizzard is our clear early sales leader for 2016.
     
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  41. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    The real trick here is the dance between weight, pop & damping versus flex & torsional rigidity. This is a great time in ski manufacturing watching how each manufacturer works on getting this balance right. The focus has moved from shape to construction. The Wailer 112 doesn't look so out of place as it did 5 years ago.
    Each option presents it's own challenges and watching manufacturers come up with their take on a solution is intriguing. I'm into it so perhaps for others not quite so but I dig it.
     
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  42. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Have the Volkl V Werks BMT on order. Should be interesting to see how they perform when pushed hard.
     
  43. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly What a plonker. Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've tried both the above types. As a mug skier still trying to feel comfortable on blue pistes, I'll take my Blizzard Magnum Ti 87's every time over the Magnum 74. The 74's don't like the crud at the edge of pistes at all, the 87's just blast through it and just generally feel secure everywhere, even on icy patches. I was worried when I got them that they'd be way ahead of me but they have been very secure and forgiving. And the extra stiffness doesn't go astray either. I'm generally close to 120kg so I work skis harder even at a sedate pace than someone of 80kg.
     
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  44. expatgm

    expatgm Addicted Ski Pass: Silver

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    I think it also comes down to personal preferences, after you've been skiing for a while you know what works for you and what doesn't,same as surfboards. As @DPS Driver says there has been a huge development in equipment over the past 5 years not only in skis but with the growing popularity of bc touring also boots, bindings, crampons, etc , the list goes on.
     
  45. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah there's a huge degree of personal preference - like I said earlier the term 'all mountain ski' is what you want to make of it based on how and where you like to ski. I don't agree with the term one ski quiver but I think most skiers gravitate to a single ski that suits the majority of their needs.
     
  46. Nowada

    Nowada Addicted

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    I would tend to agree with your comment CM, and would add that most punters only have the one ski quiver anyway.
    To date, after using my new skis, I have sold on the old ones because the new ones were so much better.
     
  47. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes exactly - one ski is the reality for most skiers, and even a luxury, so get one that covers the majority of their intended skiing and for the outliers they can either demo or find a way.
     
  48. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    How dafaqu did I end up with so many pairs......
     
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  49. Zimboo

    Zimboo A Local

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    Don't drink, smoke, or take other mind changing substances.............. or have children?
     
    #49 Zimboo, May 21, 2015
    Last edited: May 21, 2015
  50. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    Have done all of the above.... so does not compute...........
     
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