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Bit sick of the anti snowboard news

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by zac150, Feb 15, 2020.

  1. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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  2. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Controversial headlines get clicks. Miles knows that.
     
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  3. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    No different to anti cycling news. You know “cyclist dies after colliding with car” instead of “car driver hits cyclist from behind while texting”. Haters gonna hate.
     
  4. parkmonkey

    parkmonkey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I bet the snowboarder had been smoking marijuana cigarettes
     
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  5. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

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    Having just come back from Zillertal, I'm surprised by the fact that there even was a snowboarder involved. I don't think I have ever been to a resort with less snowboarders. They are noticeable due to the almost complete absence of them.
     
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  6. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    It's the skier's fault - time and time again we are warned about not wearing helmets
     
  7. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Never wear anthracite. It makes you crazy!
     
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  8. DidSurfNowSki

    DidSurfNowSki One of them Ski Pass: Gold

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    Wouldn't have happened in Deer Valley or Alta :rolleyes:
     
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  9. Harper11

    Harper11 Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    They could have said snow sports enthusiast and everyone would still know it was a snowboarder
     
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  10. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Skier Fighting for His Life After Being Bludgeoned with His Own Ski Pole
    Yup. Still a snow boarder.
     
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  11. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Exactly. If it was a skier he could have used his own pole and not (potentially) damage someone else's property.
     
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  12. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Skier or snowboarder could both be left out of that story and replaced with two aggressive arseholes.

    Today in class we were discussing situational awareness in the light of a lot of skiers straight lining the black piste we were using for drills. Many times they came very close to serious crashes (potentially fatal) at the speeds they were running. It showed a complete lack of being aware of the responsibility of the uphill skier to not hit downhill skiers who are turning on the piste. (Skier here is being used as skier or boarder).

    Our coach told us about an incident in his class two years ago where students were performing one by one carve demonstrations using most of the piste width. It was a carefully controlled drill with students looking above and below before they set off. A skier straight lining the run ran straight into the boarder in his heelside carved traverse of the hill - it was a huge hit and lucky no one was seriously injured. Coach had been video taping the run for later analysis class (which is exactly what we will be doing this afternoon). The skier jumped straight up and was running back up the hill with intention of punching the boarder in the face - abusing him for taking him out from the side and being out of control and a menace on the hill. The coach was also running up the hill yelling at the guy to stop. Skier was super aggressive and argumentative but coach pulled out the video and showed him the accident and how he had run straight into the boarder and made no movement to avoid an obvious line of a downhill rider. It took a while for him to realise he was actually in the wrong but eventually he backed down and apologised. Coach told him to take that lesson back to his mates and start treating the hill and others with more respect. I’m sure that went down well LOL

    Bottom line for me having spent a lot of hours on the hill this season, many of them using the full width of the piste for demonstrations (something I normally would not do) is you’re pretty vulnerable and relying on others doing the right thing - and they often don’t. They don’t look ahead and see what’s going on around them. We’ve had tight groups sitting at the side of a piste getting instruction and skiers have literally come so close that they’ve run over one guys hand, and clipped our stationary boards - there is absolutely no need to come so close.

    In my level 1 exam a skier crashed straight into our examiner as he was demoing the skill we were to show. Definitely not the examiners lack of awareness!

    I’ve had a few crashes myself this season, only one at high speed and that was an out of control kid that I couldn’t avoid, the rest have been low speed and purely because the uphill rider (most were actually snowboarders) had not considered the predictable line I was taking downhill of them. Yesterday was 180s across the fall line. Young girl did a toe to heel turn goofy but uphill and off her previous path trajectory right into the landing zone of my frontside 180. We only clipped boards and dropped for safety - and both apologised. All good - it happens. But high speed aggressive blame game - no good for anyone!
     
  13. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    It can be the instructor. The only time I have been pulled up on the hill was in Vail. It was a widish piste and I was doing tight turns completely in control. An instructor was taking a class of near beginners (it was a blue run) down. There must have been 12 students. The instructor had them in a snake and they were strung across the whole run. I had the choice of barrelling through the class or skiing quite close to the instructor. Obviously I chose the latter and was bawled out. When I explained my dilemma she backed down a bit.
     
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  14. DidSurfNowSki

    DidSurfNowSki One of them Ski Pass: Gold

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    Note to self: never lend a snowboarder one of my ski poles.
     
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  15. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    What @LMB said at the end of the day they were just too aggressive wankers on the hill, one goes over the top at somebody sliding to close to him and his friends and unfortunately picks the wrong person who clearly snapped and lost it.

    not a good situation at all and easily avoidable.

    as @telecrag says “it’s always a good day on the hill”.
     
    #15 zac150, Feb 15, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
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  16. Kimski

    Kimski One of Us

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    I won’t lie. It was good to spend most of my recent trip at Shiga Kogen where the pistes weren’t too busy and most skiers and boarders weren’t that fast. There were a few moments where I felt needed to have eyes in the back of my head but they were few and far between.

    As much as I loved some things about St Anton I’m not sure I’d return as last trip there I had a few moments when I was genuinely terrified by the sheer numbers on the slope and the behaviour of some.

    It all reminds me a bit of how some people drive. No situational awareness and blatent selfishness (I do live in Adelaide :D)
     
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  17. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    If they only steal em you're lucky it seems
     
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  18. Charlie

    Charlie Still the most depraved poster here Ski Pass: Gold

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    and you're still a jinx LMB!

    :out:
     
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  19. Charlie

    Charlie Still the most depraved poster here Ski Pass: Gold

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    Your fault Legs, as soon as you realised the class had a female instructor, you should have just stopped until they were off the piste!
     
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  20. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    To be fair “follow the leader snakes” are much more of a ski group thing than a board group thing - although they do have their applications should the situation allow.

    All of the scenarios I mentioned were ONE rider at a time, being assessed or videoed. Not hard to avoid with any kind of awareness.
     
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  21. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Question - how much of the alpine responsibility code are you yourself being assessed on? And how much of it are your supposed to teach?

    I feel like we have discussed this before. I feel like it is not drilled into students as much as it used to be.
     
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  22. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    So much!

    At each teach assessment safety is a key component. I particularly liked the children’s teaching cert model where you progressively gave some responsibility to children for making safe choices for other students and the group, ergo giving them the skills to be safe on the mountain when they’re not with you. Pretty much imperative to remind students in your class to look above AND BELOW them before they execute your instructions EVERY time, even if it just reduces to a gesture of looking up and down before you demonstrate.

    It’s a huge focus in our little group, but who is to say we are typical.

    I did notice much less safety and professionalism among level 1 exam candidates than the 2 of us that came from the prep course. Mostly the young ones. I called them out a few times early on and reminded them they were in exam conditions for the full 5 days and that what they were doing was not going to get them a pass and why....and in the end a couple of the boys said they’re thankful they had “Mum” in the group to get them to pull their head in. But who is to say that with the cert under their belt they won’t go back to bad habits.

    Many in the L1 exam were already employed as instructors on WHV, so, like we have discussed before I think it’s that the bulk of first timers are being taught by young people doing one season who don’t have the education or experience of mountain safety themselves to be able to pass it on in a lesson where the student is likely only on a beginner course tentatively finding their way on their heel edge. Then that student goes out on their own, gets more confidence, no more lessons and hasn’t the skill or education to make safe choices.

    What’s the answer?
    Lessons that include safety and mountain awareness. But we all know there are some instructors that seem to not possess it themselves. Some people don’t see the value in lessons, especially once they’ve got happily moving around the mountain, doesn’t matter how many times I recommend professional lessons they don’t book. I see the value - I know the value - but I can also see why they don’t see it if their only experience with lessons in the past has been being taught by an unqualified or level 1 single season adultling who is really only there for the party.
     
  23. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep i knew safety was important. But do you actually need to know the alpine responsibility code to pass your exam? and/or when do you show it to your students (now its no longer on the back of the lift pass)

    teaching students to look before crossing the road is one. thing. teaching them the road rules is another. its too different things.
     
  24. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Every country and every hill has their own evolving code. The NZ code is tested in the e-learning component of L1 which needs to be completed prior to taking the on snow exam. It is emphasised that if you’re employed at a mountain you should know and abide by their local codes and rules as a minimum responsibility.

    When to address each area would be organic and situational. Immediate safety and class handling stuff first, definitely emphasising uphill skier responsibility so they don’t run into people. Directing adults to where they can read the local code would work, not so much with kids... by the same token you’d expect a fairly new adult skier/boarder to stop and render assistance in an accident, but not so much a small child who wouldn’t necessarily be much help anyway.
     
  25. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Okay so in class are you saying - check for uphill so you don't get taken out or are your saying, check up hill because they have right of way?

    rules vs common sense?
     
  26. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    isn't that fundamentally the same thing?
     
  27. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    um no

    A pedestrian has right of way at a zebra crossing. doesn't mean i will walk out before checking that a car will stop!!
     
  28. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Common sense, as we all know, isn’t so common. But understanding why you should do something makes it much more likely to become an ingrained habit than just ticking off a list of rules that may or may not be taken on board.

    Let’s take this set of Alpine Responsibility Code rules:


    By educating the class to make sure the coast is clear above and below they are looking after themselves and ticking off both rule 6 and 7 of the code.

    If the drill involves using the full width of the piste you’d give further direction like waiting for longer to get a better gap or checking over your shoulder once you get to the other side before heading back just to make sure.

    If you’re looking downhill at nervous beginners you’d give instruction for your group to give them a wide passing distance so as not to scare them.

    Self preservation and looking out for the safety and happiness of others on the hill. Once that mentality is set it’s easy to extrapolate logical extensions to suit infinite examples of events on the hill that may not be expressly stated in the code.

    For example: there is no rule that one must stop and render assistance to a crying lone uninjured toddler. And a multitude of people just skied on past last week. I stopped. One other Aussie guy stopped. Teaching a list of rules is good. Teaching a sense of community responsibility intermingled with an understanding of why we have rules and how they protect us all and make the environment safer and more fun is betterer..
     
  29. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Right so the answer is "no, we don't specifically teach the ARC!" LOL

    Interesting because its a question ski patrol ask.
     
  30. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Whilst it wasn't so bad this year, we still had instructors breaching rule 7 by stringing (mainly) boarders right across runs in blind positions. Just below the lip of Goats Gully is one great example - there is simply no reason not to group off to the side. Generally, Instructors get better at avoiding said spots my mid season - many a person yells at them vigorously otherwise!
     
  31. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    I suppose that’s a correct statement.

    But also incorrect.

    ARC should be taught to students within lessons at appropriate times and stages of development. Although it’s still all theory for me never having actually been employed in the industry - maybe working instructors can give more accurate comment on what really happens day to day.

    The problem as I see it is inconsistency in when it’s taught and inconsistency in people actually taking lessons.

    Compare to driving lessons where a minimum standard must be attained before passing your DL exam and driving alone. No such exam to let you loose on a ski hill...
    Some driving instructors are better than others.
    Some kids are taught by their parents - could be good, could be bad, could be out of date info. Some learn to drive on quiet country roads and when they get to the city they have no idea what to do to stay safe.
    So... driving is way more regulated and yet still huge variance in people - so many numnuts on the road regardless.

    For me, I really like the ARC being posted on lift towers on the way up. It’s a nice reminder. And maybe running a new campaign each fortnight through the season focusing on a different rule - changing up signs at the lifts and ticket office. New signs get read, old signs often are overlooked...
     
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  32. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Good points about the signs on lift towers. I often wondered if resorts could not have a mandatory pass validation method, so that all newcomers must spend a few minutes watching a video on basic rules and other common sense things (eg: you should try magic carpets before chairlifts on your very first go at snowboarding or skiing, Skis and boards must be attached to feet before boarding chairlifts). Videos' running near known slow-loading areas perhaps (eg: V8 at Perisher)?
     
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  33. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    But then we wouldn’t have many Jerry of the Day videos to entertain us!!! LOL
     
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  34. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I reckon the should show it on screens in perisher lift ticket queue!

    LMB, I used to get taught.

    I would love to know what an instructor who is working as one says.

    But I was still very interested in knowing if you (in the certification stage) was doing it.

    You are doing a country specific qualification. They would have an NZ ARC code, so I would have expected them to test you on that.
     
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  35. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I must admit I thoroughly enjoy the natural bloopers and first moments of a resort's front valley. Personally I prefer watching first time skiers rather than first time boarders. There are some magical moments, the sheer delight of snow for a Queenslander, absolute terror, completely over the top dressing, equipment misses, trying to stand in gear facing uphill etc etc but behind the fun and laughter is a genuine desire for most people to do the right thing and not get in the way. Think of the Customs videos you are sometimes subject to before landing in another country. They explain WHY you can't bring in live chickens from China to Australia, why those worm infested mushrooms might destroy our economy and why mud from Thailand on the bottom of your golf clubs is not good. Rules - but communicated in a meaningful way.
     
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  36. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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  37. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Typical hippy telemarker politically wanky correct comment.
    Man up bro, grow a heel and insert a Whippet into any Richard Craniums in ya way.
    Leave the group hugs in the scroggin aisle!
     
  38. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    They did.

    online e-learning
    With an online test that required a certain % pass mark (sections varied from 70-100% required pass mark. I can’t recall what the pass mark was for that small component). Evidence of successful completion of online learning required before commencement of the on snow exam. (As I mentioned previously in post #24).
     
  39. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    If the vids are played over and over, everyone eventually gets the entire message even though they might only see a few seconds each time. We humans are smart cookies and can string together bits of messages into one long message after a while - subliminal processing or some such thing???
     
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  40. Doonks

    Doonks Let's cook! Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Is there any suggestion that it wasn't a snowboarder? If not, then i have no problem with the article.

    It's not anti - snowboarder, it's anti - ****head
     
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  41. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    So many times, I have looked at number 9. Fortunately my abilities are enhanced, a loophole!
     
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  42. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    And skier fighting for his life after being bludgeoned with his own pole, doesn’t suffice?

    Bottom line is, both people sound like dicks!
     
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  43. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Do dicks make noises?
     
  44. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    haha man you’ve changed ;) locked in the heal, reduced your freedom now your so uptight, next thing we know your be voting liberalLOL
     
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  45. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Clive
     
  46. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Obviously the "victim" has never Tele jousted, I mean he still had a pole!
     
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  47. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Victim = gnome
    Stab the gnome.
    Ergo the assailant is a telemarker dressed up as a snowboarder!
    Militant weaponised pseudohippy....
     
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  48. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Folks like that should keep an egg or 2 in their pocket/ rucksack. Messy as hell and demoralising but at least the victim wont need the blood bucket.
     
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  49. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Folks like that should self isolate until they’re medicated.
     
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  50. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Location:
    Canberra
    Free Lithium at the Turnstile.
     
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