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Telezacski

A Local
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Mar 19, 2010
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And uses his shoulders not his edges
And uses videos of other people skiing without their consent or knowledge and potentially / probably out of the context they were made.

Bawbaw whilst this may feel like a beat up please understand I believe what you are doing here is not appropriate. Your intentions may be fine, but the way you are going about it isn’t. Do not post the work of others without their consent and without their knowledge of the context you are posting.
 

Telezacski

A Local
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Try skiing straight down the fall line and linking turns keeping in a low Tele stance. Then start to link turns opening up to a wider turn shape. Keep the speed up.
Many Tele skiers I watch are turning big wide turns leaving themselves across the fall line as they try to tip in / initiate the next turn.
Not suggesting I’m any good however I do enjoying skiing fast down the fall line.
This, and as they cross the hill they become reliant on stocks for balance see video above where poles are not being used to initiate turn but to regain balance
 
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bawbawbel

Easi Ski.....
Jun 22, 2000
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And uses videos of other people skiing without their consent or knowledge and potentially / probably out of the context they were made.

Bawbaw whilst this may feel like a beat up please understand I believe what you are doing here is not appropriate. Your intentions may be fine, but the way you are going about it isn’t. Do not post the work of others without their consent and without their knowledge of the context you are posting.
Secret skier's business, hey ?
Freedom, oi !
It usually all belongs to youtube, according to their rules, and then I post only snippets as fair comment .
:)
 

Telezacski

A Local
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Secret skier's business, hey ?
Freedom, oi !
It usually all belongs to youtube, according to their rules, and then I post only snippets as fair comment .
:)
You take snippets out of context and suggest that the skier is supportive of your teaching methodology.

If this was a marked education piece you would continually fail.
 

bawbawbel

Easi Ski.....
Jun 22, 2000
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This, and as they cross the hill they become reliant on stocks for balance see video above where poles are not being used to initiate turn but to regain balance
How, then, is it that skiers who are busy regaining balance have faster times ?
And how does Ligeti manage "I just start the new turn before the old one finishes" ?
The standard explanation about pulling a foot back earlier does not work.
 

Telezacski

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How, then, is it that skiers who are busy regaining balance have faster times ?
And how does Ligeti manage "I just start the new turn before the old one finishes" ?
The standard explanation about pulling a foot back earlier does not work.
I have never been taught to pull a foot back and who cares about times! If you telemarked you would understand the movement of the legs.

The skier in the video is unbalanced and reliant on an aid, that is not good technique.

Just because one skier can perform a task better using a varied style doesn’t mean everyone should. Plenary of examples of many sports of people with one off techniques making through. Often the get caught out.
 
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bawbawbel

Easi Ski.....
Jun 22, 2000
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I have never been taught to pull a foot back and who cares about times! If you telemarked you would understand the movement of the legs.

The skier in the video is unbalanced and reliant on an aid, that is not good technique.

Just because one skier can perform a task better using a varied style doesn’t mean everyone should. Plenary of examples of many sports of people with one off techniques making through. Often the get caught out.
From skittle (pizza) to telemark, exactly the same principles apply when you anticipate the next turn.
As an excellent skier, you probably have incorporated this unconsciously just by following the best. You don't need further instruction, but maybe you owe it to your family to read Natalia, at least :)
Nothing wrong with them begging for more ski trips, surely.
 

Telezacski

A Local
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From skittle (pizza) to telemark, exactly the same principles apply when you anticipate the next turn.
As an excellent skier, you probably have incorporated this unconsciously just by following the best. You don't need further instruction, but maybe you owe it to your family to read Natalia, at least :)
Nothing wrong with them begging for more ski trips, surely.
My family are well trained by @dawooduck and both kids 9 and 16 can comfortably parallel.

Telemark is about movement and the timing of the movement with edging (probably no different to alpine), you should try it some time.
 
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Telezacski

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I regret leaving my better half under a bush for two hours while we skied.
However, we took a vote, and she did recover quickly from her flu..
? Hopefully you make more sense when you teach!

My wife skies comfortable around the mtn as well.
 

dawooduck

relaxed and comfortable
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Oct 26, 2002
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Note Odermatt is the more winning skier and both methodology is required in a skilled skiers skill box.

Note the centred and prepared to respond to balance dynamics body/arms of both skiers.
 
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Telemark Phat

Pass the butter
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Jun 21, 2008
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www.telemarkphat.org
Would be interesting to try this on Tele, @Telemark Phat ?

I have seen a similar drill done on stairs for tele.
The Telemark Whitepass turn is very much a thing.

You can see a couple in the drills section of this video



A guy does a couple of them in this Video.



Those videos are old and Telemark Race Technique has changed a lot. I have better video somewhere of Telemark Whitepass Turns. You can make them really challenging by trying to gently place the new outside ski on the snow, you need to balance on your inside, bent leg during the turn to make it happen.
 
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bawbawbel

Easi Ski.....
Jun 22, 2000
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Aha ! I do see the use of arms for balance.
And WhitePass working by great exaggeration of inclination.
Sadly, even them that brings their shoulders around are using direct rotation effect, rather than two step.
Two step, two step
Makeit like a new step

This is the new front page, previous was a single skier with wedeln.
For US sales ? (good luck with that, they are doggedly feetfirst, like us.)
Accordingly, price is now $59 with 30 pages.
Or hard copy. ( 15 dollars Amazon download )

Nat1.JPG
 
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bawbawbel

Easi Ski.....
Jun 22, 2000
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And uses his shoulders not his edges
You can't use both edges simultaneously !
Flat skis are the easiest exercise. ( no critical timing of the second step )
But you can edge or overedge as hard as you like a millisecond after transition, which you can't manage if you "wait for the ski come around" .
The most locked stance demonstrations of telemark White Pass look as if it might never come around !
"Put your leading ski down gently"
You have no alternative without anticipation.
 

scottski

A Local
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Sep 7, 2004
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You can't use both edges simultaneously !
Flat skis are the easiest exercise. ( no critical timing of the second step )
But you can edge or overedge as hard as you like a millisecond after transition, which you can't manage if you "wait for the ski come around" .
The most locked stance demonstrations of telemark White Pass look as if it might never come around !
"Put your leading ski down gently"
You have no alternative without anticipation.
Do you actually ski ? You spend so much time overthinking skiing you probably don’t leave any time for the sheer joy of sliding down the hill with a smile on your face.
 
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Telezacski

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white step for Telemark takes me back to my 190cm Morotto J’s (great touring ski) and a back pack in bad un packed snow.

If you are teaching people to lift the inside ski they will never link turns and won’t weight the back ski properly.

Do not teach people to Tele on alpine gear! Unless like @Telemark Phat you teach and ski both and don’t get a chance to switch skis.
 
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bawbawbel

Easi Ski.....
Jun 22, 2000
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Do you actually ski ? You spend so much time overthinking skiing you probably don’t leave any time for the sheer joy of sliding down the hill with a smile on your face.

white step for Telemark takes me back to my 190cm Morotto J’s (great touring ski) and a back pack in bad un packed snow.

If you are teaching people to lift the inside ski they will never link turns and won’t weight the back ski properly.

Do not teach people to Tele on alpine gear! Unless like @Telemark Phat you teach and ski both and don’t get a chance to switch skis.
I think that we had better leave White Pass exercise if you have never done one.
I often make telemark turns on my freeheel/ downhill approach skis, just for fun.
That does not make me an expert telemarker, I will grant you that.
But every single onsnow turn that I have made for 10 years has used the two step principle.
That is why I suggest that you will be startled if you try two step, right from exercise one , if you are the average telemarker that I observe.
If you are a master that I sometimes see, flickering between the trees, I have nothing for you..
 

Telezacski

A Local
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I often make telemark turns on my freeheel/ downhill approach skis, just for fun.
That does not make me an expert telemarker, I will grant you that.
But every single onsnow turn that I have made for 10 years has used the two step principle.

Ok we are getting somewhere, you are not telemarking you are skiing downhill on Alpine bindings without your heals connected…..

As tele phat suggests this is the same as using a old 3 pin binding from the 80’s, you have no heal control! Cable or 75mm and NTN both provide superior control hence skiing techniques have evolved.

The only time my skis leave the snow is if i’m jumping @telecrag who stacked in front of me and I really shouldn’t be following him anyway or skiing a tight double black and I need to turn on a dime.

Neither should be taught in a resort lesson.
 

telecrag

Old n' Crusty
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Oct 12, 2007
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I don’t stack. I take the occasional power nap.

I don’t mind jump turns on a steep sloughing slope, and I am starting to enjoy the odd jump, so my skis are starting to leave the surface more often.

Chatting with an older xc skier, he finds it hard to believe that I can turn whilst evenly weighting. But I can also turn weighting front or rear ski equally comfortably.

If someone asks me, (fools!), I would say monomarking is the secret to Tele.
 

Telezacski

A Local
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I don’t stack. I take the occasional power nap.

I don’t mind jump turns on a steep sloughing slope, and I am starting to enjoy the odd jump, so my skis are starting to leave the surface more often.

Chatting with an older xc skier, he finds it hard to believe that I can turn whilst evenly weighting. But I can also turn weighting front or rear ski equally comfortably.

If someone asks me, (fools!), I would say monomarking is the secret to Tele.

Power nap in powder snow
 
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bawbawbel

Easi Ski.....
Jun 22, 2000
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I don’t stack. I take the occasional power nap.

I don’t mind jump turns on a steep sloughing slope, and I am starting to enjoy the odd jump, so my skis are starting to leave the surface more often.

Chatting with an older xc skier, he finds it hard to believe that I can turn whilst evenly weighting. But I can also turn weighting front or rear ski equally comfortably.

If someone asks me, (fools!), I would say monomarking is the secret to Tele.
Just the thing for tele powder.
This
http://www.telemarktracks.com/telemark_tips/telemark_technique_powder_drill.html
Sounds just like a White Pass tele ?
 

Telezacski

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Pretty extreme drill for the one day in a skiers life they may encounter snow so deep they can’t turn.
 

telecrag

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Doesn't need to be deep to be hard to turn in, the other day at Thredbo I reckon 90% of skiers couldn't turn, maybe 60% of boarders (well, if you call that turning). It was ski the tails and forget the edges snow, quite fun. I assume I am rear foot bias for this, but to be honest Im not thinking about it.
 
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Telezacski

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Doesn't need to be deep to be hard to turn in, the other day at Thredbo I reckon 90% of skiers couldn't turn, maybe 60% of boarders (well, if you call that turning). It was ski the tails and forget the edges snow, quite fun. I assume I am rear foot bias for this, but to be honest Im not thinking about it.

Rear foot or heal bias i find in that snow I feel more pressure through the heel of the front foot
 
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telecrag

Old n' Crusty
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That gives more time for selfies. Note how most of the tracks are running straight, taking the easy option, I prefer to duck and weave through the trees.
GOPR4182.jpg
 
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telecrag

Old n' Crusty
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Haha, they are running straight because most riders have at that point realised they cant turn. It was a day of seeing people bury themselves. I didn't even take a nap! I reckon I was in a 15-20% group though.

I think in my case its because I didn't learn to ski on groomers, rather than being a great skier.
 
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bawbawbel

Easi Ski.....
Jun 22, 2000
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It was ski the tails and forget the edges snow, quite fun. I assume I am rear foot bias for this, but to be honest Im not thinking about it.
Downhill powder needs same weight on both skis with "ordinary" skiing and either down/up to make a platform to incline on or the windup/release of anticipation to turn. (Denver skier here )
Some throw their outside arm in the air to start the inclination.
If your tele style works so well, that is probably nuff said. It probably defies analysis :p
 

Telezacski

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Downhill powder needs same weight on both skis with "ordinary" skiing and either down/up to make a platform to incline on or the windup/release of anticipation to turn. (Denver skier here )
Some throw their outside arm in the air to start the inclination.
If your tele style works so well, that is probably nuff said. It probably defies analysis :p

Baw baw you often refer to throwing of arms or punching which concerns me, un balancing new tele skiers is the most common mistake I see.
 
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bawbawbel

Easi Ski.....
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Baw baw you often refer to throwing of arms or punching which concerns me, un balancing new tele skiers is the most common mistake I see.
That is why it is best to skitter in the pizza position first, even if you are quite "competent" in the ozzie telemark ( can't turn in deep powder, skis diverging into a stem to make a turn, stuck pointing downhill while you wait for the sidecut to take over, risking destruction when turning between the trees.

No edging.
It is not the movement of the arm that redirects the skis.
It is when the movement STOPS that the torque transfer takes place.
Simples ?? Yet it is rejected by the brainwashed footfirst club. Strange indeed !
 

Telezacski

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That is why it is best to skitter in the pizza position first, even if you are quite "competent" in the ozzie telemark ( can't turn in deep powder, skis diverging into a stem to make a turn, stuck pointing downhill while you wait for the sidecut to take over, risking destruction when turning between the trees.

No edging.
It is not the movement of the arm that redirects the skis.
It is when the movement STOPS that the torque transfer takes place.
Simples ?? Yet it is rejected by the brainwashed footfirst club. Strange indeed !


If your placing that much torque in deep snow you won’t walk away from the hill. The idea is to remove torque as this is what allows us to ski all day and removes the risk of destroying knees
 

bawbawbel

Easi Ski.....
Jun 22, 2000
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If your placing that much torque in deep snow you won’t walk away from the hill. The idea is to remove torque as this is what allows us to ski all day and removes the risk of destroying knees
Glug (as opposed to powder, which in Oz is usually only when snow is still falling) needs a special technique.
You wind up beneath the snow and the torque brings you around as your skis come clear.
I don't think it can be done in a telemark turn. :(
Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
P.S The pizza exercise is just the best way to get you to feel what you are missing.
 

skifree

A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe
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Find your self a copy of this.

9780930031183-us.jpg


Spend a season on telemark gear, then come and tell us how it should be done.
 
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