Brumbies KNP Management Plan Review

Ubiquitous Steve

Part of the Furniture
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Feb 29, 2008
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Oh just convert the place to one massive blackberry farm....that will control the feral animals......:whistle:

If only the early Chinese prospectors from Nine Mile Diggings could see the place now.....under the stewardship of KNP.....they would marvel at the new Game Park Theme.Fresh tucker everywhere,goats pigs deer foxes rabbits and horses to pull gear around with....no need to use just a wheel barrow anymore!
 
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Jacko4650

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I regularly see deer around Jindabyne and near Island Bend but I have never witnessed so much environmental damage as I saw when I was camping in KNP near the Vic border along the Barry Way. Pinch River was over-run by both horses, deer and rabbits. The river flats were torn to shreds by wild horses. In fact their lifestyle was so good, numerous herds were in similar areas. Incredible density = bad situation. I had to be very careful about the big stallions whenever I went for walks. The deer up there have more kamakazi in their blood than roos. Crikey, one even ran past me in the forby just so it could then jump across in front of me! It was quite a discrace what the feral animals had done to such a beautiful area. They must be removed.
 

Majikthise

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Speaking to someone yesterday who was at Yarrangobilly last week as part of the lead upto the speelio conference that is on this week. They did a trip out to the waterholes and commented on how many horses were out that end of the park. Their intuitive estimate was "thousands" as "they were f****** everywhere". Within the group were international visitors, delegates for this weeks conference. They were shocked by the damage and apparent lack of management
Now today i hear on the news that the feral lovers have done their own aerial survey funded through gofundme (FFS!) And they deduced there were only 750. NPWS estimate is 6000. They argue that the NPWS figure is a gross misrepresentation. I think i can take a stab at where the misrepresentation lies!
 

dawooduck

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That so called "independent survey" entailed flying a small plane about for a few hours over the pasture flats in the Northern park.

Compromised and misleading marketing to keep the FB misinformation stream flowing

Stralya
 

Fozzie Bear

A Local
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In the woods
Now today i hear on the news that the feral lovers have done their own aerial survey funded through gofundme (FFS!) And they deduced there were only 750. NPWS estimate is 6000. They argue that the NPWS figure is a gross misrepresentation. I think i can take a stab at where the misrepresentation lies!

Then the brumby lovers wouldn't mind if 5,000 or so were taken out by the most efficient means (aerial shooting). Can't complain about ferals that don't exist.
 
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Schnaxxy Schnaxxlburger

but a dream within a dream
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here, now
THE MAN FROM SNOWY RIVER by A.B. "Banjo" Paterson
There was movement at the station, for the word had passed around
That the colt from old Regret had got away,
And had joined the wild bush horses - he was worth a thousand pound,
So all the cracks had gathered to the fray.
All the tried and noted riders from the stations near and far
Had mustered at the homestead overnight,
For the bushmen love hard riding where the wild bush horses are,
And the stockhorse snuffs the battle with delight.

There was Harrison, who made his pile when Pardon won the cup,
The old man with his hair as white as snow;
But few could ride beside him when his blood was fairly up -
He would go wherever horse and man could go.
And Clancy of the Overflow came down to lend a hand,
No better horseman ever held the reins;
For never horse could throw him while the saddle girths would stand,
He learnt to ride while droving on the plains.

And one was there, a stripling on a small and weedy beast,
He was something like a racehorse undersized,
With a touch of Timor pony - three parts thoroughbred at least -
And such as are by mountain horsemen prized.
He was hard and tough and wiry - just the sort that won't say die -
There was courage in his quick impatient tread;
And he bore the badge of gameness in his bright and fiery eye,
And the proud and lofty carriage of his head.

But still so slight and weedy, one would doubt his power to stay,
And the old man said, "That horse will never do
For a long a tiring gallop - lad, you'd better stop away,
Those hills are far too rough for such as you."
So he waited sad and wistful - only Clancy stood his friend -
"I think we ought to let him come," he said;
"I warrant he'll be with us when he's wanted at the end,
For both his horse and he are mountain bred.

"He hails from Snowy River, up by Kosciusko's side,
Where the hills are twice as steep and twice as rough,
Where a horse's hoofs strike firelight from the flint stones every stride,
The man that holds his own is good enough.
And the Snowy River riders on the mountains make their home,
Where the river runs those giant hills between;
I have seen full many horsemen since I first commenced to roam,
But nowhere yet such horsemen have I seen."

So he went - they found the horses by the big mimosa clump -
They raced away towards the mountain's brow,
And the old man gave his orders, "Boys, go at them from the jump,
No use to try for fancy riding now.
And, Clancy, you must wheel them, try and wheel them to the right.
Ride boldly, lad, and never fear the spills,
For never yet was rider that could keep the mob in sight,
If once they gain the shelter of those hills."

So Clancy rode to wheel them - he was racing on the wing
Where the best and boldest riders take their place,
And he raced his stockhorse past them, and he made the ranges ring
With the stockwhip, as he met them face to face.
Then they halted for a moment, while he swung the dreaded lash,
But they saw their well-loved mountain full in view,
And they charged beneath the stockwhip with a sharp and sudden dash,
And off into the mountain scrub they flew.

Then fast the horsemen followed, where the gorges deep and black
Resounded to the thunder of their tread,
And the stockwhips woke the echoes, and they fiercely answered back
From cliffs and crags that beetled overhead.
And upward, ever upward, the wild horses held their way,
Where mountain ash and kurrajong grew wide;
And the old man muttered fiercely, "We may bid the mob good day,
No man can hold them down the other side."

When they reached the mountain's summit, even Clancy took a pull,
It well might make the boldest hold their breath,
The wild hop scrub grew thickly, and the hidden ground was full
Of wombat holes, and any slip was death.
But the man from Snowy River let the pony have his head,
And he swung his stockwhip round and gave a cheer,
And he raced him down the mountain like a torrent down its bed,
While the others stood and watched in very fear.

He sent the flint stones flying, but the pony kept his feet,
He cleared the fallen timber in his stride,
And the man from Snowy River never shifted in his seat -
It was grand to see that mountain horseman ride.
Through the stringybarks and saplings, on the rough and broken ground,
Down the hillside at a racing pace he went;
And he never drew the bridle till he landed safe and sound,
At the bottom of that terrible descent.

He was right among the horses as they climbed the further hill,
And the watchers on the mountain standing mute,
Saw him ply the stockwhip fiercely, he was right among them still,
As he raced across the clearing in pursuit.
Then they lost him for a moment, where two mountain gullies met
In the ranges, but a final glimpse reveals
On a dim and distant hillside the wild horses racing yet,
With the man from Snowy River at their heels.

And he ran them single-handed till their sides were white with foam.
He followed like a bloodhound on their track,
Till they halted cowed and beaten, then he turned their heads for home,
And alone and unassisted brought them back.
But his hardy mountain pony he could scarcely raise a trot,
He was blood from hip to shoulder from the spur;
But his pluck was still undaunted, and his courage fiery hot,
For never yet was mountain horse a cur.

And down by Kosciusko, where the pine-clad ridges raise
Their torn and rugged battlements on high,
Where the air is clear as crystal, and the white stars fairly blaze
At midnight in the cold and frosty sky,
And where around The Overflow the reed beds sweep and sway
To the breezes, and the rolling plains are wide,
The man from Snowy River is a household word today,
And the stockmen tell the story of his ride.

The Bulletin, 26 April 1890.
is this myth the driver of all of the absurd posturing?
I fail to see how a 'horse lover' can support the presence of the brumbies
 

Jacko4650

One of Us
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That so called "independent survey" entailed flying a small plane about for a few hours over the pasture flats in the Northern park.

Compromised and misleading marketing to keep the FB misinformation stream flowing

Stralya
Lassic lobby group tactic these days. They use biased (often intentionally) data and present it as legitimate research. They get away with it too often because politicians and senior govt officials are not trained in how to differentiate good versus dodgy data.
I must have seen 60 feral horses on one short walk at Pinch River a few weeks ago.
 

dawooduck

relaxed and comfortable
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That is my guess why people want the horses.

The myth is all tied in with "Cattlemen of the High Country" being excluded from the Alpine areas and packaged up with the Brumbies being descendants of "Australian war horses", lots of dressing up in WW1 gear, flying of patriotic flags and extrapolated history. Add in the FB memes of "horse lovers" and ..... here we are !!
 

Myazma

One of Us
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I'm driving the SMH every fri avo/sun avo, if it hadn't been for an oncoming car last fri night flashing me I would have smacked into a mob of 20+ animals on the road near the head of the Eucumbene river. They went straight back onto the road after I had honked my way thru them. This is the second time I've had this same mob on the road. Is it going to take a death by brumbie to get action?
 

Jacko4650

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I'm driving the SMH every fri avo/sun avo, if it hadn't been for an oncoming car last fri night flashing me I would have smacked into a mob of 20+ animals on the road near the head of the Eucumbene river. They went straight back onto the road after I had honked my way thru them. This is the second time I've had this same mob on the road. Is it going to take a death by brumbie to get action?
Wow, that's a frightening thought. There is a large herd of deer that frequent areas about 5klm up from the Station toward Dalgety. 40-50 head that jump straight over fences for sheep & cattle. Once the herd starts, they all follow blindly. Very aware of the dangers now.
 
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telecrag

Old n' Crusty
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I think you will find that many people think they are a native animal now.

We eat kangaroo. I suggest restaurants get on it.
 
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canestocks

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Saw a story a few weeks back about an aerial shoot in SW Queensland. Farmers cleaned out 950 odd pigs and a dog. Where are all the pig friends on that one. Just sayin.

A figure I heard somewhere was that 80% of removed brumbies end up at the knackers. (might have been on here). Too many horses in paddocks now that dont get enough use. And I know cos my fam love horses.
And having been on the periphery of the Guy Fawkes incident there is no better way to remove these invasive pests.
 

telecrag

Old n' Crusty
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Gawd, just saw a post from a friend on FB, veggie animal liberationist, love her to bits, but FM. I couldn't let it slide. Every feral is a native dead. Which do you protect? Native species, or domestic and farm animals let loose? Its that simple.
 

Xplora

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Horse management in Victoria is also at a standstill.The bleeding hearts have one this round. Most of the politicians have been gelded. Most cattlemen in the High Country shot the feral horse as well because they caused damage and ran away their own stock. Lies and myth can always beat common sense..BTW I have a horse to give away. Either that or a bullet for him. Any bleeding hearts want him?
 

teletripper

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Apathy from the broader community and those who love and support the concept of what a National park should be about, the protection of it's native species and ecosystems will see the pro brumby and anti park lobby prevail. Science, facts and evidence mean nothing to politicians. Community outcry (even if it is ill informed and unfounded) which translates to votes however puts a different lens on issues such as this, and any common sense goes out the window with the politics. Maybe social media groups such as these that are trying to provide a response to the 'alternative truth' of brumby groups need some broader support along with direct lobbying to local members, Ministers, deputy Premiers and Premiers to indicate there is alternate views within the community than what they hear from the vocal minority.
https://www.facebook.com/feralfreeaustralia/
https://www.facebook.com/TSCommissioner/
https://www.facebook.com/invasivespeciescouncil/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/191099460990243/
 
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Majikthise

Sage
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The politics of large feral mammal control is a tad frought.... and not likely to get a good outcome atm.
The ISC on the other hand have just had a win on the fire ant and will be levereging off that experience... likewise expect them to be a lot more visible at election tines.
 
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Jacko4650

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I love all animals but if I were to go to the Galapogos Islands and see it overrun by cane toads and possoms, I would be concerned. Feral animals have a place of origin and belong there and as Telecrag said, every feral animal equals a dead native animal. We must preserve our animal diversity around the world, meaning there is no place for ferals in our National parks.
 

Billy_Buttons

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Xplora

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BTW I have a horse to give away. Either that or a bullet for him. Any bleeding hearts want him?
What colour ...
The free kind of colour. Someone coming to look at him next week.

Another way to educate people is to change how we speak of these horses and stop calling them brumbies. They are feral horses. Take away the evocative and emotional name and relate to people exactly what these animals are. They were a domestic animal which had escaped, was lost or let loose by the human owner. Being a horse owner and talking with other horse owners who come to the High Plains about feral horses has given them a new insight into the problem and less sympathy for them. Many of those wanting to sustain the wild populations are only looking to benefit financially from harvesting the young horses for sale. Some people are even seeding the wild population with their own mares to diversify the gene pool.
 

telecrag

Old n' Crusty
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People believe that they have been out there since settlement, have evolved into a unique breed, and as such have as much right to be here as us. Social media alternate facts. People believe what they want to believe.
 
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skifree

A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe
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So how long and how much did the consultation process that has now been junked by folks who bypassed the process?
 

Xplora

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So how long and how much did the consultation process that has now been junked by folks who bypassed the process?
These people were part of the process and it seems they were able to convince the right people. The only method of cull that was truly on the table is shooting. All other methods have been deemed not suitable. Too far to knackery for road transport, nobody wants old mares or stallions to re-home. Running them till they drop is considered cruel. These horses are not very fit and tire easily when run. So it seems one poorly run aerial shooting operation will always come back to bite them. Pollies do not like hot potatoes and this is one that will cause them to lose votes. The environment means less.
 

telecrag

Old n' Crusty
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Encourage the people running hunting tours to send the fully sick hunters from Sydney in their Hilix's after Brumbies instead of deer?
 

skifree

A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe
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These people were part of the process and it seems they were able to convince the right people. The only method of cull that was truly on the table is shooting. All other methods have been deemed not suitable. Too far to knackery for road transport, nobody wants old mares or stallions to re-home. Running them till they drop is considered cruel. These horses are not very fit and tire easily when run. So it seems one poorly run aerial shooting operation will always come back to bite them. Pollies do not like hot potatoes and this is one that will cause them to lose votes. The environment means less.

It makes the whole process stink to high heaven.
 

skifree

A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe
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politics NSW style it has ever been thus

I was going to say something like that but held off.

The question now for folks who think that corroboree frog habitat and the frogs are worth saving is where to now?
 

Majikthise

Sage
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1) ensure the S&F don't have the BoP in the next parliament
2) Target strategic seats
3) Lobby for herbivory by horses to be listed as a " threatening process "
 
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