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Buller 2015-2016 Summer reports

Discussion in 'Mt Buller' started by djam, Oct 4, 2015.

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  1. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    LOL
     
  2. Madski

    Madski Hard Yards

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    This year alone a large majority of site rental have gone through the roof.
    What about the study at the gate on charging for summer entry.
    That great invention the of automated entry. What a success that was. Money down the drain.
    Hows that dam going? Let me guess stuck in approvals with no end site. Have read of the community forum, it was mean to be installed by now.
    Read the corporate report and look at the salary growth over the years. Well exceeds CPI.
    Bus contract is joke. Cant tell me that is value for money.
     
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  3. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    But no one can do it better apparently.

    Please.
     
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  4. travelislife

    travelislife One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    @Jellybeans1000 thank you for your response. I am not arguing for arguments sake just trying to understand what they do differently compared to the rest of the world to justify their need to exist. A whole other layer of overhead.

    How can they be accountable to ratepayers when they have no say in the people who get the positions? They are appointed not elected.

    If they are bad, they have no business. Take a look on Opening Weekend and you'll see they ain't doing bad.
    They are not a business. Attendance has nothing to do with the council and/or RMB.

    How many high overpaid people do you need to outsource rubbish collection and sewerage removal? I would argue Parks Victoria could arrange that pretty easily. Or even assigning one person within the regional council to look after that specific area. And the statement 'and of course rates' nearly says it all. Is it rates for rates sake to pay the over inflated salaries?
    1. They are not overpaid
    2. Parks Vic! Worst sewerage removal ever
    3. You need to pay rates and taxes to get government services. If your so anti-rates, you can pull out your sewerage yourself then
    I am not anti rates. I am happy to pay rates if they are used efficiently. It was your comment that was 'just rates'. Rates don't exist 'just because' (though some CEOs on 350k plus might disagree). They are meant to be to provide services.

    Name to me all of these 'council services' the RMB provide (not including staffing a gate at the bottom of the hill which could all be automated ala Hotham?).
    • Snow Clearing
    • Post
    • Sewerage
    • Water
    • Horse Hill (car parks)
    • Building permits
    • The very design of the village
    • Cross country trails
    • And the buses
    And why does it need its own executive to perform these functions? These are also massively subsidised by the $45 car tax on everyone who enters.

    Where else in the world does this arrangement operate as such?
    Victoria. I'm not saying it's perfect but it's better than most of the other ideas put forth.
    How do we know it's better? It surely couldn't deliver worse value for money.
     
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  5. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    Maybe the rates could be reduced if the RMB is already making a truckload on car tax (which it does)
     
  6. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    But the RMB is still doing its part, and the conservative world can't change it.

    I don't think it's perfect or even great but it deserves the right to exist. And who knows, maybe the Local Government Minister might make RMB's more democratic but alpine resorts will always have 'special' status in the local government system.
     
  7. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    And no I don't work for the RMB
     
  8. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I struggle to believe that.
     
  9. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    It's the special status that is the heart of the problem.

    They simply aren't special from a local government perspective.

    It's a pure gravy train.
     
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  10. djam

    djam One of Us

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    I recently asked 'How many people work for the RMB'

    And the answer was, drum roll, 'About half'....ROFL

    Sorry old joke...
     
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  11. Madski

    Madski Hard Yards

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    Pay that one!

    On a serious note though. There are a lot more RMB staff numbers now than there use to be. Not like the functions and area they have looked after has changed.
     
  12. Madski

    Madski Hard Yards

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    I don't have an issue with there being a function that needs to be carried out.

    What i have a problem with is there lack of accountability, KPI's with financial rewards/penalties, money manegment considering they are monopoly.
     
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  13. Hully

    Hully One of Us

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    Well amazingly they have been found....the person outside of Alpine Resort Management Board employ who supports the RMB model. ROFL;) Knew they had to be out there somewhere.
     
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  14. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Probably has a unicorn living in the backyard as well.
     
  15. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hahahhahahahahahahaha- Why would I have a unicorn at the backyard.

    You guys are like a minority- like only 5% of the Australian skiing population doesn't back the RMB model.

    Why?- Because nothing is wrong, it's like you guys don't want Australian Skiing to progress, like a conservative clinging onto a economic future which is unrealistic.
     
  16. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think I know someone who clings onto an unrealistic economic future...


    [​IMG]
     
  17. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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  18. travelislife

    travelislife One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Seriously! I would argue 100% the opposite! I believe the current RMB set up stunts the growth of the sport. The majority of people believe it is the Grollos who are ripping them a new one when they drive through the gate and pay $45, if they knew the truth of it I reckon they would be pretty unhappy at the set up too.
     
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  19. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Grollos or the RMB are not ripping off anyone- The Grollos need the lift tickets to be viable and the RMB needs the gate fee and rates to keep it viable as it does lot more than running just the Ski School, the lifts and ABOM.

    No one is getting ripped off, you're just complaining because snow resort rates are higher than average Melbourne rates. The reason why is that the RMB have a lot more on their plate than the average metro council. So stop making a rort, just cause you don't want to pay the premium. Go up to St Gweinar or Howitt (still great skiing) if you don't want to pay a fee.
     
  20. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Wow.

    Are you really trying to be this clueless?

    Don't mix in RMB with BSL. What BSL do is irrelevant to this discussion.

    You keep harping on about the same things. So I'll say it again. No one here is anti-rates. It is the gold plating, thinking it's special when it isnt, being unaccountable to ratepayers issues that are the issues. You just don't seem to be ale to grasp that. At all.
     
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  21. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    I am not clueless. I am speaking in accordance with my principles.
    You clearly are ignorant to the situation. I imagine you are in Melbourne or elsewhere in the state, so there the rates are pretty average. But you and your friends come up to Buller a couple of weeks a year and then start screaming to the RMB 'You're bad' and 'Down with the RMB' but seriously dude, look at the facts.

    If you have watched politics for the last decade, the democratly elected parliament has been very ineffective. And of course, we want a democratic system for Federal, State and Local Government. But the thing is with Alpine Resorts, they are more of a business. So having one board elected by a government who YOU voted for makes sense. It's one stop shop for everything Buller approves and changes. It is very effective and efficient to approve and change things in the highly competitive Aussie ski industry.

    Secondly the RMB follows the guidance of two organisations, the BRA (Buller Ratepayers Association) who represents ratepayers in Mt Buller and of course BSL. But ultimately being in the RMB's position, it is incredibly reasonable for them to charge more. Because like everything else, council services have a premium for the RMB.

    Lastly the RMB has to pay for three huge costs, the money it needs for the winter(which easily pays for itself), the money it needs for summer(thanks to the hard work of the RMB, now largely pays for itself) and Stirling(which is a money draining exercise). So the RMB needs money to maintain its Buller operations but also Stirling (no BSL to help out there). And there are other Buller facilities needing keeping like Cow Camp, the Cinema, the Sports Hall and the toboggan runs.

    Put simply: If you don't want to pay the premium, don't come up there and moan to the RMB.

    :cool:
     
  22. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    I speak from a political analyst's perspective as well as a rational thinker who understands the current system and the changes needed to improve it.
     
  23. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    You don't get it.

    Having lived (not visited) in resorts both here and overseas I've seen enough to get a pretty decent understanding of how things work and how it could be done so much better.

    Do you really believe that rate payers not having a direct say in who represents them is a good thing? Would the people of Mansfield cop that, not a chance.

    What's the biggest cost to the RMB? If it's wages for admin staff then that says it all.

    Rational thinker? Political analyst. LOL LOL LOL no wonder politics is stuffed in this country.
     
  24. djam

    djam One of Us

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    It seems JB1000 has a very good understanding of how the RMB spend the money they
    collect. Lets just start there and show a breakdown of the spending like Melbourne
    councils do.

    I'd also like some more detail on how summer is paying for itself, that is not what was
    conveyed at the rate payers meeting this week. My understanding is the RMB collect
    no money from the summer activities. John also said they plan to man the gate next
    summer and still not charge gate entry.

    And for the record I'm here (at Buller) all year round.
     
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  25. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    You + several million dollars = Perfect Donald Trump

    You understand how to argue, how to ski and how to review local government systems (sarcastic for that last one). You need to understand economical issues surrounding your argument. Sure you looking at the democratic and the 'peoples' perspective but your not looking at it economically.

    In what situation is your argument accurate?
    Not in the Australian Ski Industry

    If a democratic government was elected at Buller, it would crush itself on its own momentum.
     
  26. Madski

    Madski Hard Yards

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    JB1000 your comments are no longer worth responding to.

    DJAM. I hope you are kidding that they plan to man the gate and not charge.

    I have no issue with trying grow the summer trade but it should't be funded by skiers/boarders.

    Its about time the ACCC got involved.
     
    Hully likes this.
  27. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    Djam who employs you if you live at Buller

    So you want me to answer your questions
     
  28. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    Madski : I don't care if you don't want to look, but I think you should look at yourself.

    And yes they are manning the gate without charging. For surveying and no that is pretty bad thinking from HR Dept
     
  29. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty

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    Well that's odd, because some of us have skied all our lives at Mt Buller since back to the 60s and our parents since the 1940s and when I saw my father today I asked him of in his living memory had he ever met or heard of anyone who supports the RMB and he hasn't.
    And I doubt anyone here has heard of anyone who support the RMB in their living memories of Buller either.
     
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  30. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    ACCC wouldn't bother.
     
  31. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    You 'Buller regulars' are backing old knowledge and not improving your knowledge of the industry itself

    Get a Economics or a Politics Degree and you'll might reconsider. Just being a regular at Buller for 60 years does not make you right.
     
  32. Madski

    Madski Hard Yards

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    What sad is that you have totally missed the point.

    No one has an issue with the need to have an RMB or something similar.

    The issue is the current set up, they aren't accountable to in any way to there customers (rate payers, businesses and the public who come up to the hill).

    Over the years RMB rents, parking, open cost, staff numbers have gone through the roof.

    I am sure the ACCC would have an interest. Might be time to write that letter to them.
     
  33. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I will make this perfectly clear - I have worked in the Australian ski industry for the majority of my adult life.

    The biggest impediment to the growth of skiing as a sport in the State of Victoria is the RMB system.

    How many resorts have you skied around the world? My last count was around 70.
     
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  34. djam

    djam One of Us

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    I'm self employed, have been since 1987. None of my customers are part or
    connected to the resort. i.e. my comments are independent in that sense, not
    biased. But I do ski, I buy lift tickets, I do ride and buy bus tickets and I do
    pay a lot of money in the way of rates and service charges. And a lot more
    after the change made in January with no warning.

    I'd like someone to make those answers public, then we could make a informed
    judgment, as its stands, we all go on rummer and what we see. The way you
    comment, it sounds like you have that information, otherwise I don't see how you
    can make the statements above.
     
  35. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty

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    Rubbish, it gives them a position of being first hand witness to all the RMB failings over a long history since the inception of it.
    Your uni degree against that is worthless.
     
  36. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty

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    Yes, first hand experience and knowledge of the mal administration and misdeeds of RMB since it started.
    And you say ignore all that listen to you.
    LOL
    Because you have a uni degree, Goof
     
  37. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    All I see is all the good things the RMB have done, Year round supermarket, athletes walk, Medical Centre, concreting all the roads, fixing up Cow Camp. Are those failures?
     
  38. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have been around since the RMB existed in the late 90s
     
  39. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty

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    Take off your googles indoors..
     
  40. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    I don't wear them
     
  41. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty

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    And before that.
    There has been a few management regimes by which this RMB can be measured,
     
  42. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty

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    So again why is it that the local municipal council cannot run manage the resort.
    They do everywhere else.
    Does the RMB have magic powers or something they are yet to unleash.
     
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  43. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes. Every single one of them. Because the ratepayers had no say into how their rates were being spent.

    You've heard of the term 'taxation without representation' right? Well have a look at what happened after that.
     
  44. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    The ARC was a bureaucratic agency tying all the resorts together and didn't work
    The FC was an agency not equipped to alpine activities

    Both agencies were failures unlike the RMB
     
  45. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty

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    According to who.
    The peak of attendance at Mt Buller per population was well before this RMB.
     
  46. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    You're clearly a troll.

    See ya.
     
  47. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty

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    Like the RMB with its magical powers just showed up in the 90s and worked its magic and now all at Buller is good.
    And my pigs are all cleared for take off.
     
  48. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think the 95% of people who come up the mountain like the fact there is a supermarket, athletes walk, medical centre, concreting the roads and fixing up Cow Camp.

    95% of Bullergoers = people who are not 'Buller regulars'
     
  49. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Who has proposed for Buller to be it's own independent nation state? No one.

    There has not been single suggestion that buller retain it's own local government just that it be elected representatives.

    Part of the problem is that it is deemed necessary for it to have a 'special' administrator when the local government function could be performed just as well by the shire in which it resides.

    There is nothing complicated, remarkable or special about what the RMB does.

    Just don't tell them that.
     
  50. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

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    Now Your pigs are cleared for takeoff

    Proven Point