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Buying a base - Bright, Dinner Plain, Falls Creek

Discussion in 'Hotham & Dinner Plain' started by ski2go, May 19, 2020.

  1. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Fair enough. Sorry..... im probably a bit tetchy. Anyway, you dont have to like the architecture itself, but the 'toy town' aspect of them all looking the same was a planning thing. It also was an interesting time in terms of design guidelines for built form. If the council hadnt pushed for something other than a free for all, the planners hadnt responded with overlays, and he hadnt of done the work it could have been caroline springs at dinner plain. Some peeps like Caroline springs, but i do think he managed to develop a vernacular there, along with guys like peter sandow, or dare i say my partners father who did work at hotham and falls.
     
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  2. Gregah

    Gregah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    For every person who doesnt like the "conformity" of Dinner Plain architecture there would be another 100 who really like it. This is what you get when an architect controls a development rather than a developer, and thank goodness for that.
     
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  3. Boodwah

    Boodwah A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yup, I blame Peter Mac too. Thank heavens we had a (genius) architect in charge from the start. DP is all the more special for it, a wonder amongst “The Australian Ugliness”
     
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  4. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I like DP having it's own architectural style.

    what I don't like is restrictions at older resorts that try to emulate it, especially when it seems hell bent on destroying the european heritage of the resorts
     
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  5. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    DP is lovely.
     
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  6. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Last i heard he was still skiing, but that was a couple of years ago. Pretty amazing to think he did the state swimming centre for the 56 Olympics at 23 yo
     
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  7. Echo Base

    Echo Base Hard Yards

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  8. Endless_Winter

    Endless_Winter One of Us

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    Agreed. The rules governing development are quite extensive, but for a very good reason. I've looked into building there, but, as with many people, this been put on hold due to being somewhat underemployed at the mo. I like the "no fences" rule and need a permit to plant anything that is not native to DP or remove native flora.
     
  9. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just had a quick squizz, not sure about building costs up there, I'm sure there would be a ~50% overhead on city costs, but there's a few blocks for not a whole lot that you could build something really nice on.

    https://www.realestate.com.au/property-residential+land-vic-dinner+plain-202164838

    Heeeaaapppsssss for sale though, and Covid won't do wonders for the pricing, a lot less inventory than Mt Buller, bugger all there for sale right now. 41 at DP cf 22 at Buller according to REA, that's a big differential considering the relative scales.
     
  10. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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  11. kylep

    kylep Cage rattler Ski Pass: Gold

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  12. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Wonder how that works in winter? Not having some sort of airlock for a ski property is nuts.
     
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  13. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Large modern bathroom with walk in shower and fitted with a washer/dryer machine.

    At least we can't say they aren't full of it when it comes to this property it really is a walk in shower!

    This apartment should sit on the shelf for years and years and years. What a dumb design.
     
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  14. gettingtooold

    gettingtooold One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    The lack of quality building standards in most on snow premises is atrocious from what I've seen. Would not be acceptable elsewhere.
     
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  15. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    maybe the bathroom is supposed to double as airlock and wet area for skis & boots. shitty solution
     
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  16. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Thinking you would be close to the mark but may even run out more. I am sure you would be able to find information about which tradies will work there from locals. Concrete has to come from Bright side now as Omeo has shut down and it would not be cheap. More like double city prices. The best person to speak to would be the owner of the Hilltop Hotel in Omeo as he also owns Dinner Plain constructions. It is more of an excavation business than building but Gary would know who is who around DP.
     
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  17. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep our place is older and has a great entry with a drying room and a toilet. There’s plenty of places where you come straight in to the living room, wtf. Definitely need an airlock / mud room setup.
     
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  18. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Snigger.
     
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  19. emkae

    emkae One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Seems to be a “feature” of newer places on the mountain i.e cost cutting

    Older places normally have some kind of entrance area separate from the rest of the place
     
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  20. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    If I was building remotely these days I would 100% go modular, not sure how that would go with the DP architectural style though.
     
  21. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I imagine there would be plenty of BAL hoops to jump through if building at DP these days.

    I do like the design restrictions though.
     
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  22. travelislife

    travelislife One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Peter McIntyre still going at 93 doing the SCV apartment development at Buller.
     
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  23. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Having done some work on BAL's (one recent) and knowing DP I actually think you would get away with quite a low number. Slope and proximity to the vegetation are the key elements and neither are a concern there for most blocks. After BAL 29 things get a bit harder but I would be surprised if there was anything more than 29 at DP.
    Having built as remote as you can in Victoria I would say I don't think I would ever do it again. Not sure if I could find something modular to fit in with the area but it would be worth trying.
     
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  24. djam

    djam One of Us

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    If I remember correctly, that corner site in Majella was intended to be a coffee shop or similar.
     
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  25. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    That makes sense.
     
  26. djam

    djam One of Us

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    you just see the apartment, on the garage level, lower left corner.

    [​IMG]

    Under the balcony of the above apartment.
     
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  27. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    So that yellow door you can see through the carpark is the front door into the toilet?
     
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  28. Jonathan_P

    Jonathan_P One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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  29. hooha

    hooha Hard Yards

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    It was originally designed to be a little coffee shop/ hospo joint , never happened and was then turned into an 'apartment'

    oops just saw djam has mentioned already!
     
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  30. hooha

    hooha Hard Yards

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    Agree and also some very stupid alpine designs which encourage ongoing problems and expensive maintainance for the life of the building .

    It starts with the architects and McIntyre designs often fall into this category from my experience.

    If you are building in an alpine environment with extreme conditions keep it simple.

    But don't listen to me , lots of tradies like the ongoing work;)
     
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  31. Onlybackscratchers

    Onlybackscratchers One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I found this article, published in The Age 9/3/82. Gotta love making predictions.
     

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  32. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Didn’t age well.
     
  33. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Agenda and realistic assessment/predictions rarely go together

    Perhaps the most strange thing is that it was omeo shire supporting it but now DP is in alpine shire
     
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  34. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Omeo Shire would have been pretty poor I’d have thought so no wonder they were for it. Must have been re-aligned when it went to east Gippsland.
     
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  35. Snowwww

    Snowwww Hard Yards

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    I’m sorry for completely changing the topic here..I did a calculation when I was considering buying something on the mountain:

    The freehold titled ski in ski out is at around $165k. If we stay there for 2weeks in the peak period and lease it out the rest of the season, the income and expense would break-even.

    Assuming two of us going there for 10 weekends a year and only stay Friday and Saturday nights will bring us to $400/night. Adding another 2,000 additional allowance for the season(in case we want to stay a whole week), equates an annual accommodation budget of $10,000.

    So how many years of $10,000 each year would have a cash equivalent of $165k today? If we don’t make any investment and just save it in our offset account to offset our mortgage, the annual interest rate is currently at 3.5%(if interest rates go up, money today would worth more so it will take a longer total period. Vice versa, if interest rates go down even lower it will take a shorter total period).

    The cashflow shows a total period of 25 years of $10,000 each year equals to $165k today. This assumes that we pay $165k cash only with no stamp duty(would be minimal anyway) and no interest expenses. But I also assumed the accommodation budget of $10,000 of each year doesn’t go up. Does it go up much? Maybe it does but I haven’t fact that in.

    I have also considered another scenario: if we buy it today and sell it at the end of year 10 period for the same price; the expenses and the income breaks even every year; and owning it means we could save $10,000 every year for the next 10 years, how much benefit of owning it will give us today. The present value of this scenario is $27k. This again doesn’t fact in the purchasing expenses and selling expenses, as well as the cost we would otherwise pay escalates annually.

    It brings marginal financial benefits for us at the stage in our life IMO but of cause financial benefits don’t play a big role when you make the decision to buy a property on the mountain.Just interesting to hear your opinion about it :)

    It’s a fun practice for a property valuer who’s also a passionate skier to look at it from a valuation perspective.
     
    #185 Snowwww, Oct 8, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  36. kylep

    kylep Cage rattler Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sounds good. What about running expenses, insurance, maintenance and repairs?
     
  37. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Are your assumptions about rental occupancy realistic?
    What occupancy can you expect early and late season?
    If it is not available on weekends that makes it attractive to fewer renters?
    What summer occupancy have you assumed?
    Have you factored in cleaning costs etc after each rental?
    If covid restrictions on accom hang around even at a reduced level, what could that do to costrs and occupancy?
     
  38. Snowwww

    Snowwww Hard Yards

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    The running and insurance cost is included in management cost for every stay and owner corp. No I haven’t considered the maintenance and repairs every year for the subject property only.
     
  39. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I heard a story about DP wanting out and during the council amalgamations in 1994, it joined with the newly formed Alpine shire. The planning scheme created for DP by Omeo was adopted by the Alpine shire and in essence it means you pretty much need an architect to design anything built at DP. I am not sure how poor Omeo shire was at the time. Many were running at a loss and the amalgamations were thought to reduce waste in expense.
     
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  40. Snowwww

    Snowwww Hard Yards

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    The rentals I used is from 18/19 and 19/20 financial year break downs. After deducting management cost and cleaning fee for every stay, (when the owner stayed, they still had to pay a $250/stay cleaning fee), a total annual running cost and finally owners Corp including insurance, the owners made 7k and 5k profit for 18/19 and 19/20 respectively. They only stayed two weekends in there themselves. 18/19 year included June 19 however June this year had no income that’s where the 2k difference arrives.

    From the break down, there is no summer income, for being conservative, I didn’t add any in.

    The breakdowns showed a lower rate at the start and late in the season, and the much higher rate at about $400 per night during the peak. A single night stay booking on the spot showed a night rate of $850/night. There were 3-4books each season had longer books for for 5-7 days. The income breakdown seems consistent for these two years disregard June 2020.

    I have allowed a higher night rate of $400 for the budget I would otherwise pay for accommodation just to allow as much as I can. I doubt we would be spending 10k a season just for accommodation.

    I haven’t considered what if restrictions or impact from COVID extend. So this is the most optimist situation. If that happens, it means it will take even longer to realise the benefits of spending $165k today.
     
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  41. emkae

    emkae One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    What kind of accommodation do you get that is ski in ski out for $165k?
     
  42. gaz35

    gaz35 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I haven’t considered what if restrictions or impact from COVID extend. So this is the most optimist situation. If that happens, it means it will take even longer to realise the benefits of spending $165k today.[/QUOTE]
    bit like the Treasurer
     
  43. Snowwww

    Snowwww Hard Yards

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    A studio on Mount Hotham. It’s in really good condition, low owners Corp, small complex, no lift but it’s on the ground floor. Most importantly it’s a freehold title. The property manegment office is on the ground floor very easy to reach as well.
     
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  44. Undies

    Undies Pizza!

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    Is it just me, or is DP incredibly good value? 3 or 4br places for well south of $1m. Some nice places around $750k. Yet it's got a village, and striking distance to Hotham.

    Why so cheap?

    Was thinking about buying a place in Thredbo, but since there's no dogs allowed that rules it out.
     
  45. PG2736

    PG2736 Addicted

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    That's a good building that you are looking at and always rents well. We have a place in White Crystal - which you can always rent irrespective of conditions. At the end of the day you cant put a value on flexibility and being able to go whenever you want. If you cant use it you just rent it. After all costs ours delivers a great return. The banks will go 70% on the freehold and 65% on a leasehold if you want to put some leverage into it as well.
     
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  46. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Define value.

    Does seem better to purchase rather than build in DP.
     
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  47. cookieman

    cookieman One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    You do get reasonable value for your buck in DP but yes how do you define value?
    In my opinion, all the other resorts are overvalued.
    We bought our original large DP home - 4 bedroom, 3 undercover parking for less than $200,000 20 years ago, so as an investment it only represents average/poor value, however that doesn't bother us as we use it and enjoy the lifestyle.
     
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  48. Undies

    Undies Pizza!

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    I'm looking at the price of a 3-4br house in DP and comparing it to Thredbo. I'd expect a price difference, but Thredbo is about 3x the price for something equivalent. That, to me, makes DP seem like good value.

    They're very different villages, though, as you'd need to get to Hotham each day to ski. But as a year-round alpine village, DP strikes me as being reasonably priced.
     
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  49. Cam Slee

    Cam Slee One of Us

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    It's only a 15 minute drive from Dinner Plain to Hotham.
     
  50. Boodwah

    Boodwah A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    DP is still cheap.
    It would have cost 3-4X what we paid for our place (less than price of a 1 bedroom apartment in melbourne) to build the same structure.
    It’s gone up a bit since, but it’s still value for money for an escape, but not for an investment.
     
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