1. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Apr├Ęs topics or continue browsing and reading as a guest.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

Buying vs Hotel vs Ski Club Member

Discussion in 'Mt Buller' started by Mr. Miyagi, Mar 14, 2016.

  1. Mr. Miyagi

    Mr. Miyagi Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    2
    After some assistance from the knowledgable folks here.

    How does each option stack up? Assume 12 weekends per year (Friday and Saturday nights, 24 nights per season, for two adults and two kids).

    Buying
    Interest on loan ($250k purchase with 1 x car space) = $12,500
    4wd pass = $650
    Insurance = $1,000
    Body corp fees = $10,000?
    Total = $24,150

    Hotel
    Tariffs (based on Arlberg) = $7,460
    Annual car pass = $320
    Overnight parking = $600
    Transfers = $1,730
    Total = $10,110

    Ski Club Member
    Interest on membership purchase (10k) = $500
    Tariffs (based on Schuss) = $5,400
    Village Access Pass = $650
    Overnight parking = $600
    Total = $7,150

    Is there anything I've missed?
     
    #1 Mr. Miyagi, Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
  2. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    76,479
    Likes Received:
    41,708
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    Rates / Body corporate etc on a basic 2br apartment at Buller are about $10k p.a. More if you have elevators / heated driveways etc.

    Ski club member can generally get a 4WD Village Access pass.
     
    #2 CarveMan, Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
  3. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Messages:
    23,028
    Likes Received:
    9,900
    Location:
    Lurking
  4. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    Messages:
    30,200
    Likes Received:
    28,248
    Location:
    in the cupboard covered in dust
    Being able to get all the weekends you want in a club?
    Danielsan
     
    benchives likes this.
  5. Mr. Miyagi

    Mr. Miyagi Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    2
    Good point, I'm not sure how'd they'd work. If we go down that path I'd be booking every weekend at the earliest opportunity.
     
  6. Kieran

    Kieran A Local

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1970
    Messages:
    5,370
    Likes Received:
    1,225
    Location:
    Looking over your shoulder
    What if you're renting the apartment out during the week?

    Rental income minus management fees minus cleaning.

    Tax implications of that?
     
  7. Mr. Miyagi

    Mr. Miyagi Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yeah, could be some good news there. Unsure of returns, hence I've left it out.
     
  8. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    49,318
    Likes Received:
    19,500
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    You can also negative gear and claim travel expenses for inspection and maintenance.

    You can use it when it suits you rather than having to compete with the market.

    You can swap with other people in other resorts.
     
  9. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    76,479
    Likes Received:
    41,708
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    From talking to others who do the same you'll take the sting off the rates but that's about it.

    Only buy a place up there if the cash is burning a hole in your pocket, or if you're comfortable with it being an investment in your lifestyle. Cos it sure as shit won't be a good investment overall!
     
  10. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Messages:
    23,028
    Likes Received:
    9,900
    Location:
    Lurking
    lel...... low hanging fruit for the ATO
     
    Vermillion and piolet like this.
  11. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    71,969
    Likes Received:
    26,577
    Location:
    Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
    Is it funny, or sad, that the transfers cost basically double what parking does?
     
  12. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    49,318
    Likes Received:
    19,500
    Location:
    Canning Vale, Perth
    yep, everyone who tries to rip off the system should be low hanging
     
  13. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Messages:
    23,028
    Likes Received:
    9,900
    Location:
    Lurking
    Just stick to what you do best.... drive and Audi .... or whatever it is :thumbs:
     
  14. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    76,479
    Likes Received:
    41,708
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    I wonder how the ATO views ski properties owned by companies in the ski industry.....
     
    piolet likes this.
  15. Beerman

    Beerman One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,988
    Likes Received:
    2,889
    Location:
    Brisvegas
    Surely product testing, R&D, demo days, staff training will come into it??
     
    LMB and CarveMan like this.
  16. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    76,479
    Likes Received:
    41,708
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    @Mr. Miyagi there's one more option - season-long apartment rental. Though if you're strictly doing weekends and no midweeks then I don't think it would stack up.
     
  17. FatBoyDave

    FatBoyDave One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,440
    Likes Received:
    1,098
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I would be surprised if you could book 12 weekends per year for 4 people into a club lodge, (unless you had one of those founding member sweetheart deals).

    I know of one family that bought an apartment and kept their existing club membership. This allowed them try and book into the club during peak periods and rent their place out to maximize their return during this time, and book into their apartment when they couldn't get into the lodge.

    As for buying/owning, you've forgotten power, which is if not much cost but gas (at least at Hotham) is >4 times as much as it is in Melbourne. If you have gas heating in your apartment a season bill of >$1,500 is not uncommon. As previously mentioned if you buy into a place with a pool or lifts, expect your body corp to be higher.

    If you decide to rent your apartment out, you have to factor in the moron's that will rent and damage your property and if you are the type of person that will cope with that. Also factor in the extortion type commissions the on hill cleaning and management places will charge. Think ~18% management/letting fee and ~$300 cleaning and linen changeover.

    The upside of ownership? You can leave all your stuff up there in a secure locker, so can make a quick getaway to the snow whenever you like and arrive at any time of the night,(providing you place is vacant). You also have a place you can access year round. The downside compared to a lodge is you miss out on all the social interaction with other members and your kids playing with other kids, (although sometimes this can be an upside).

    The downside of lodge membership is availability of booking places. If that's the way you decide to go, ask current members before you jump in. Some lodge's have some questionable constitutions and founding members and their families get preference bookings at subsidised rates.
     
  18. gettingtooold

    gettingtooold One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    4,049
    Likes Received:
    2,604
    Location:
    geelong
    It is not an investment. You're paying for a recreational lifestyle which will cost whatever way you go . It will be expensive.
     
  19. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2001
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    1,424
    Location:
    Canberra, ACT
    Mate of mine had a unit in Jindy and during peak season he barely used it because that was when he could get best returns. He admits it was a lifestyle choice but he never got to use it when the snow was good. He did enjoy it during off peak and summer.
     
    coolair likes this.
  20. luvthabumps

    luvthabumps A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    8,780
    Likes Received:
    3,667
    Location:
    Back in MEL ( with annual trips to the 604 )
    we usually get enough income from a handful of midweek rentals to offset outgoings.Often we'll do one mid season weekend rental now that the two older kids aren't up as much and that always boosts the income as well (we're 3 br though) We do it ourselves via Stayz and airbnb (just started with that this year) and have a good relationship with a property manager who does our set up and cleaning after the stay and can help out if there are issues that we can't handle over the phone.

    We typically only rent to families, although I did rent to a group of 30 somethings last season and they were very goo. I just told them the bond was $2K and it turned out I knew the boss of the guy who rented the place (young lawyer) so once I let him know that he knew he was being watched ;) So far, in 4 years of doing this, we've had no issues.

    Over summer, just family and friends go up and we just ask them to pay for cleaning and a token fee for heat, light, power and internet.

    So for us, whilst it's not a good "cash" investment, we basically stay there for "nothing" and have flexibility to come and go as we please, which was really the reason why we bought in the first place having been Lodge members for many years before that. We enjoy the lifestyle and the friendships both we and the kids make by being there every weekend. I doubt I would have ever met the 3 guys I just went to Alaska with if I wasn't doing the kid's seasonal programs. Trip of a lifetime for me. Can't wait to practice my new found back country avvy skills at Buller - shovel and probe at the ready...........ROFL

    I think your budget might be light for 2br with a car space ??
     
    gareth_oau and piolet like this.
  21. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    76,479
    Likes Received:
    41,708
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    Low 300s might be a bit more realistic. Unless there are some of those hotel room conversions like Arlberg/Enzian still up.
     
  22. Mr. Miyagi

    Mr. Miyagi Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    2
    Spot on, we'd be happy with a studio/1 bedder as the kids are only young :)
     
  23. benchives

    benchives Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    15,901
    Likes Received:
    5,702
    Location:
    sydney
    Aargh more reason for two bedder!
     
    LMB, Vermillion and piolet like this.
  24. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    5,904
    Likes Received:
    2,379
    mmm depends on the club and when you book. Some clubs have a member booking priority period. Some clubs do not have restrictions on how much you book - e.g. Schuss which was referenced in the OP.
     
  25. luvthabumps

    luvthabumps A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    8,780
    Likes Received:
    3,667
    Location:
    Back in MEL ( with annual trips to the 604 )
    look further into the future now or you're going to be paying in and out costs. Studio with 2 teenagers and a couple of their friends they want to bring up = shudder........
     
    currawong likes this.
  26. wolly

    wolly One of Us

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    401
    Location:
    near the snow
    buy a house at sawmill. just rates and a gate pass
     
  27. WaitAwhile

    WaitAwhile One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,830
    Likes Received:
    1,224
    Location:
    Perth/part time resident of Jindabyne
    We have a apartment in Jindy and get good solid bookings up to mid August, we generally use it in one hit from mid August to mid-late September which suits use fine as August and early September are my favorite times there .By that stage its paid for itself for the year and Perisher really quietens down .
    Occasionally we use it in late July or early August for a week but we get about 6 weeks to make money as its a older style apartment. Once you start booking out the peak July periods, especially the school holidays your income is going to start dropping, although we do tend to get a few mon- fri bookings so theoretically you may be able to use it on the weekend and still get 5 day bookings.
    Our plan is slightly different than most as I want to go back to the similar lifestyle(minus the alcohol,with more money and less work) that I enjoyed for most of my 20s when I was based in ski resorts for the winter, and going for a skiing holiday for 2 weeks was never going to be enough, but that wont happen for a couple more years until its paid off.
    After saying that we had no intention of paying more than $200K and we purchased just after the GFC.
    If I was to do it at today's market prices I would probably seriously look at the caravan option or a lodge membership or maybe a studio apartment.
    If you do look at buying a apartment just make sure you get the right sort of loan to maximize your opportunities.
     
    #27 WaitAwhile, Mar 19, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2016
    Mr. Miyagi and gareth_oau like this.
  28. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    71,969
    Likes Received:
    26,577
    Location:
    Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
    I think the fact you are doing all the sums on the different options says that you're probably better off holding off doing anything. Really, it's a lifestyle choice, like buying a boat, or a caravan and going away with that. In you're in it to make money, then you will probably be disappointed. Having taken that into account, if you decide you do want to head down this path, then look at the option that best-suits your individual situation, be that kids, transport, availability etc because the last thing you want after investing the time and money is to be unhappy, or to sit there and go man we could have done this or that better. If that means it's going to cost you more, then so be it. If that extra cost puts you over the edge, then consider another option, or just come to terms that it's probably not something you can afford. But usually it doesnt get to that, there's always somethng else you can sacrifice in order to get more skiing in :D
     
    Mr. Miyagi likes this.
  29. djam

    djam One of Us

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,249
    Likes Received:
    384
    keep in mind properties don't move fast, if you need to sell, it might take a couple
    of years. Properties we looked at were still on the market serval years later.
     
    luvthabumps likes this.
  30. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    76,479
    Likes Received:
    41,708
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    Agree ^^^

    If you're going to buy something get whatever will serve you for 10-20 years. Don't think that you can easily sell and upgrade a few years down the track.

    It's really a poor investment from every point of view apart from lifestyle, which IMO is great.