1. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Après topics or continue browsing and reading as a guest.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

Camping for the 2020 Season

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by skifree, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    25,544
    Likes Received:
    19,190
    Location:
    Middle Oz
  2. skull

    skull One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,672
    Likes Received:
    2,621
    Watch this space, my 2020 snow camping will be proudly brought to you from the luxury of my campervan.

    Some suggested updates (even though it is brand new) for 2020 - diesel heater. Will be posting for recommendations on quality and chinese version.
     
    nezumi, Snowy Joey, Goski and 3 others like this.
  3. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    9,026
    Likes Received:
    6,715
    Location:
    Snowy Mountains
  4. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Messages:
    2,573
    Likes Received:
    4,772
    There is a very good Facebook site and some great vids on Youtube to get you started.
     
    skull likes this.
  5. teyoha

    teyoha First Runs

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2019
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hey guys, how about Colorado? I found a lot of info here about free camping there. It looks like a nice opportunity to spend a great time.
     
    crackson and Jacko4650 like this.
  6. Noah

    Noah Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2019
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    127
    I'm planning for 2020 season. What do people use to stay warm in the tent at night? Still trying to convince my family that camping in July is a good thing. I've made compromises to pacify the concerns like staying in a caravan park in Jindabyne, rather than with the proper campers near the snow, so that we'll basically be hanging out in the amenities building and doing our cooking and studying of the trail maps there. But they'll have to go back to the tent to sleep. Can you advice if my ideas are stupid?

    I have:
    a coleman instant up tent which is probably stupid in winter, but maybe I can get away with it? I really like this tent and it's been good in wind and rain to date so would rather not get something that's very expensive or which takes too long to setup.
    https://www.snowys.com.au/instant-u...TCrn_CV02umb9LSoU7CF01sUhllrv8P4aAviFEALw_wcB

    I have paper thin self inflating kathmandu mattresses, happy to get better mattresses and spend more because we do a lot of camping.
    https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/kathmandu-self-inflating-mat-v2-38-compact

    I recently bought 2 2nd hand oztent -5 sleeping bags and will be looking to buy a couple more winter appropriate sleeping bags. Don't have links, but I imagine they're equivalent to the $80-100 basic winter sleeping bags in crappy camping stores.

    I plan to book a powered site and run a silly little heater at night from an extension cord into the tent.
    https://www.thegoodguys.com.au/gva-...Q9S8qZ9iHiimOQD9paQaAvE6EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

    We put a blanket under our mattresses for warmth and a bit of insulation.

    Feel free to mock this setup, none of it was bought for winter camping so I'm happy to modify and just wanting to get things to make camping reasonably comfortable for the family. But will be buying 2nd hand and cheap so maybe need ideas based on older stuff. I've never tried to run a heater in the tent but I think it would be okay, right? Longer term plan is to then get family camping closer to the snow without reliance on caravan park luxuries, but that's a secret scheme and it would probably require a little more investment.

    Thanks again for everyone's input, you're a wonderful bunch.
     
  7. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    28,321
    Likes Received:
    36,301
    You will need to invest quite a bit, if you want to enjoy it IMO.

    Minimum
    Bomber tent
    -15 or so sleeping bag
    Good foam mat (cheaper, more comfy, and warmer than good backpacking ones, find a guy who is into his foam and get it cut for the tent) if car camping.

    Cheap set ups get shredded fast.

    Unless
    You go late in the season with a bomber forecast for blue skies and light winds.
     
    crackson, Noah and Sage Oya like this.
  8. Sage Oya

    Sage Oya Like the herb, lover of Pabst, cup ramen devotee Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    2,068
    Location:
    Sydney
    Imo the Coleman instant up isn’t up to the sort of winds you’ll encounter in the snowies. I’ve got one for summer camping and it collapses in moderate winds as it’s just a giant sail. The hinged legs will also fold in on themselves in high winds winds even with the fly roped down hard.

    For warmth in a tent you don’t need a heater imo. Just fork out and buy proper alpine down filled sleeping bags and a good sleeping mat.

    We used seas to summit AP3 bags and a self inflating 4wd camping mat this winter and I was also most too hot some night even down to -7 sleeping in just undies and a shirt.
     
    #8 Sage Oya, Oct 12, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
    Noah likes this.
  9. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    16,529
    Likes Received:
    29,530
    Location:
    Blue Mtns, 1100M.
    coolair and Sage Oya like this.
  10. Noah

    Noah Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2019
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    127
    Just to be clear, wind and weather conditions in Jindabyne will be too severe for my stuff? I might have confused you all but intention was just to camp in the discovery park at Jindabyne. But even there all my stuff is inappropriate and needs changing? I get sleeping at altitude in snow is another thing, but I'm not familiar with conditions in Jindabyne in July and thought it would be far less severe down there. Perhaps not? Also thought about camping at Tawonga caravan park down in Victoria as well but I expect if gear is not good for Jindabyne then conditions would be even more difficult down at Tawonga?
     
  11. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    8,537
    Likes Received:
    14,632
    I turned our trampoline upside down when not in use. They don’t call it windy Jindy for nothing.
     
    Chaeron, Snowy Joey, crackson and 5 others like this.
  12. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    37,083
    Likes Received:
    36,470
    Location:
    woonona
    I have a caravan in Jindy. (NRMA)
    We have 1200mm star posts hammered into the ground secured with 2 inch chain and tensions.

    Once you've seen a 110-130kmph blow in jindy......... you'll understand.
    The amount of tents i've seen in our bins is quite remarkable.
     
    crackson, Jacko4650, coolair and 3 others like this.
  13. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    28,321
    Likes Received:
    36,301
    On a perfect night you would be fine. Sawpit Creek campground is more protected than Jindy ones, but anywhere in the Alpine areas can get really really windy. I too have seen many destroyed tents, and been in one myself. We were camped near a hut near Selwyn, my mate was in my bomber, and me and the +1 were in a standard dome cheapie. The roof was blowing flat onto our faces, so not sleeping anyway, it held out for ages, but finally tore. We bailed to the hut.

    Like I say, if the forecast is super sweet, you would probably be fine, safer in early June, or late September, but those pop up tents are seriously not up for much.
     
  14. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    37,083
    Likes Received:
    36,470
    Location:
    woonona
    IMO . Buy a car that the kids can sleep in if it all goes to shit.
    Then buy a kick arse tents/swags for adults.
     
    skull likes this.
  15. Sage Oya

    Sage Oya Like the herb, lover of Pabst, cup ramen devotee Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    2,068
    Location:
    Sydney
    Heaps of double swags camped out the past season, definitely a popular option.

    The only thing I thought looked a bit tough with some of the swags were the ones that you had to get in from the top. Looked less then ideal when it was pissing down or snowing decently.

    *edit, the car/4wd awning over swag looked the goods though!
     
    Jacko4650, skull, coolair and 2 others like this.
  16. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    37,083
    Likes Received:
    36,470
    Location:
    woonona
    A swag on the leeward side of a car looks like a thing.
    * I have a bunch of mates that camp in my park. They have all graduated to swags
     
    Jacko4650, Noah and Sage Oya like this.
  17. Noah

    Noah Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2019
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    127
    okay so updated checklist of my camping stuff:

    tent: rubbish
    sleeping bags: rubbish
    mats: rubbish
    heater idea: stupid

    But very glad to have advice because a cold windy night with nowhere to hide would not be pleasant.

    Could anyone recommend a 4 person tent that would suit? Or how about two double swags instead? Seems like I could find more affordable swags than the top quality winter tents and the foam mattresses in them can be quite thick.
     
  18. Sage Oya

    Sage Oya Like the herb, lover of Pabst, cup ramen devotee Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    2,068
    Location:
    Sydney
    Im sure some of the swag users will chime in but im 99% certain you'd be able to get two double swags significantly cheaper than a bomber 4 person tent. The expedition grade tents cost a small fortune.
     
  19. Noah

    Noah Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2019
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    127
    Annabuzzy and Jacko4650 like this.
  20. Sage Oya

    Sage Oya Like the herb, lover of Pabst, cup ramen devotee Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    2,068
    Location:
    Sydney
    Ive not looked at one in great detail but I've seen this swag used a lot at Ngarigo. More so in summer/autumn by the mountain biking crowd but I've definitely seen it used in winter too. Yet to see a broken one and the price is certainly attractive.
     
    Noah likes this.
  21. cornice11

    cornice11 One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2018
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    578
    Chuck some foam mats under a swag will help insulate from cold ground.
     
    crackson likes this.
  22. mauricem

    mauricem Addicted

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast
    If you’re on a powered site electric blankets and blow heater will keep you all very toasty. Wind is another thing though. A couple camped next to us last year in an instant up tent and it semi collapsed on a moderately windy day but it didn’t blow away! I suspect it wasn’t rigged properly. Starting point for alpine tents is a 4 season rating.
     
    Noah likes this.
  23. skull

    skull One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,672
    Likes Received:
    2,621
    so our bed set up was a queen inflatable as a base layer (NOT INFLATED), then four thermarests in a row, then a blanket layer, then our sleeping bags, then another blanket and doona across the top of us.

    The kids slept in the middle with the wife and I on the ends.

    For sleeping wear, I would just have flannel PJs and socks on and inside the bag I would have my ski pants, jumper and thermals. That way once I woke up they would be warm when I put them on. For ease the kids slept in their thermals and we would have their pants and jackets under the bags, so once they wake up quickly dressed.

    In terms of being cold, I was never cold at night sleeping. It was just the mornings when it was in the -9 region the kids would get irritable. On those mornings I would turn the car on with the heater and let them sit in there whilst we were still making breakfast etc.
     
    Noah and Sage Oya like this.
  24. Sage Oya

    Sage Oya Like the herb, lover of Pabst, cup ramen devotee Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    2,068
    Location:
    Sydney
    Great point @skull. I also sleep with my thermals, jumper etc stuffed in the bottom of my sleeping bag so in the morning they are warm to put on and I can get dressed still semi in the bag without loosing warmth. Boots and ski outerwear are within reach to so by the time i step out of the tent Im wearing mostly what id wear on the mountain.
     
    Noah and skull like this.
  25. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    10,559
    Likes Received:
    12,418
    Location:
    Yarra Valley Vic
    The issue with those in wet/snowy conditions is the amount of unsupported canvas....it will sag terribly. They're rather bulky and difficult to roll up if the mattress is left in them.

    The swags (if you can call them that), with an extra hoop would be better..... Still bulky, and I imagine quite heavy if wet.
    eg.
    https://www.bundyoutdoors.com.au/bu...7QKw2N7SKUuekOgOmjtFeWywkOLcT2UoaArnIEALw_wcB
    [​IMG]

    What sort of vehicle do you have? My sister did a fair bit of camping with their two young kids with all 4 sleeping in the back of a Hiace type van.

    Re a heater, we have used a small column heater in a bigger tent;
    [​IMG]
     
    Snowy Joey, Noah and Sage Oya like this.
  26. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Messages:
    2,573
    Likes Received:
    4,772
    I camp at Island Bend mostly, but spend a bit of time at the Jindy Caravan park (NRMA Holiday park now). Both are windy as all F^&%%! The suggested Double Swags (listed above) are getting more and more common and the only time they have issues is when they are not pegged down properly in a big blow. At the caravan park, you are normally placed on the windiest sites near the water, so use the base of the fence to tie down and use over-sized pegs. The tip about positioning them on the lee side of your car is also great advice and position them to align with the wind rather than sideways to it. If you go up the hill, Sawpit Creek is generally a bit calmer due to the trees and other stuff around, with the added bonus of games room/camp kitchen etc, power for electric blankets if really required (??) and an amenities with hot showers and warm toilets. Then there are the numerous National park sites when you get more adventurous and comfortable with your set up. There are all-in-one Chinese diesel heaters for your tent if required (just search Ebay).
    Camping is fun. The kids will remember it for the rest of their lives and you will have a ball. Enjoy!
     
    Snowy Joey and Noah like this.
  27. Noah

    Noah Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2019
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    127
    I think I'll get swags. Would probably get a family tent if I didn't already have a tent I like, but swags add options to our camping and easier to justify buying.

    Point about the king swag sagging in the wet and snow seems valid, so might be good to find alternative. Lots of swags out there, any recommendations from swag people? Or better yet, ones to avoid.
     
  28. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    37,083
    Likes Received:
    36,470
    Location:
    woonona
    You don't get much wet or snow in Jindy van park
     
  29. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Messages:
    10,850
    Likes Received:
    10,270
    Location:
    Sydney/Jindy
    I had a Kings Swag (lost in the divorce) and would buy again.

    There is a hack for the sag on YouTube with ocky straps.

    Agree with awning and set up on Lee side of car for set up.

    Hot water bottles too for in sleeping bags.
     
    Snowy Joey and Noah like this.
  30. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    10,559
    Likes Received:
    12,418
    Location:
    Yarra Valley Vic
    There was a thread on swags some time back, maybe in Conversation or Backcountry...a search should find it
     
  31. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    25,544
    Likes Received:
    19,190
    Location:
    Middle Oz
  32. Noah

    Noah Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2019
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    127
    thanks. I think all questions have been answered on ski.com.

    The summary of that thread is that the Darche Dirty Dee is good, with various romantic shots of the darche in exotic locations.

    https://www.tentworld.com.au/buy-sale/darche-dirty-dee-1400-swag

    Twice the price of the cheap king deluxe but I do think a bit of extra height is probably good. I also think the three pole swags are probably a good option for the snow. Will need to get my head around the price.
     
  33. silva

    silva One of Us

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    Messages:
    619
    Likes Received:
    594
    Location:
    NSW
    We take our caravan to Jindy Caravan park (NRMA) a bit in winter. We were there in July this year when there was a couple of nights of significant winds. We were quite protected but still had to pull the pop top of our van down in case the wind ripped the roof off. Several of the camper trailer type Jayco vans (bed out each end) were so damaged they were written off. There were several destroyed tents littered around the place. Correctly oriented swags and well pegged down/strong tents survived.
    The Caravan park in Jindy is a fun place to stay but it is not cheap in winter - a powered site will cost you about $100 per night and some holiday weekends and weekends in August will already be booked out for powered sites. It does have a good drying room and pizza nights are awesome. The inside common rooms are not large though (small reading room and a small games room with a pool table and a couch and tv. The camp kitchen is well oriented to be protected from the wind but is open on one side to a covered area so not exactly warm.
    For the money it would cost you to get a powered site for a week you could set your family up nicely for camping without power. The hardest thing camping without power is getting everything dry if you have a wet day on the mountain. Rather than relying on a powered site you may want to look at a self contained diesel heater - you can get them cheap of ebay or spend a lot on a name brand model. The combustion air stream and heated air stream are completely separate. The unit sits outside your tent and the hot air outlet is pumped inside. I would not rely on them for survival (make sure you have adequate sleeping bags etc to do without it) as you never know when you will run out of battery or diesel but they can certainly make a tent or camper trailer super cosy and will dry any wet gear (we have one in our caravan and its excellent).
     
    Snowy Joey, Noah, Jacko4650 and 4 others like this.
  34. coolair

    coolair One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    961
    Location:
    NSW
    Still fine tuning my Diesel heater, running on 80/20 kero mix, tested on low power for 30 min . last night, ran ok
    I will try and get the time to try a few more times and open the thing up again and see how it is going for soot build up.
    When it works it works great. My new solar setup works great as well
     
    northsail, Jacko4650 and Sage Oya like this.
  35. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    9,026
    Likes Received:
    6,715
    Location:
    Snowy Mountains
    Msr Stormking with footprint. 9mm ropes.
     
    Sage Oya likes this.
  36. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    9,026
    Likes Received:
    6,715
    Location:
    Snowy Mountains
    Rated to 220k's with 9mm ropes.
     
    Sage Oya likes this.
  37. Noah

    Noah Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2019
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    127
    And from memory, based on an older post, your sleeping bags were ordinary -6 sleeping bags from anaconda? Or did you end up buying better ones?
     
  38. skull

    skull One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,672
    Likes Received:
    2,621
    The kids ones were. Mine was an extreme cold weather one rated at -25. The wife had a Roman rated to -10.
     
    Noah likes this.
  39. Noah

    Noah Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2019
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    127
    And do you think the extreme one was necessary?

    On a side note, I like that you've given yourself the most comfort, I usually go the other way sleeping off the blanket, in the corner with too small and too thin sleeping bag on the self-inflating mat which also happens to be self-deflating at night. You've made me rethink this approach.
     
  40. mauricem

    mauricem Addicted

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast
    Women are known to sleep colder than men. "Data on physiological differences between traditional genders has always shown that the “average woman” will feel colder in the same bag than the “average man” will feel"
    from https://www.rei.com/blog/camp/understanding-sleeping-bag-temperature-ratings
     
  41. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    28,321
    Likes Received:
    36,301
    What about lady boys?
     
  42. mauricem

    mauricem Addicted

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast
    Well that's one way to keep warm I guess, each to their own...
     
  43. skull

    skull One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,672
    Likes Received:
    2,621
    No. I got pretty warm. I didn’t need the other layers most of the time.
     
  44. skull

    skull One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,672
    Likes Received:
    2,621
    You’re not a man till you’ve had a man.
     
  45. mauricem

    mauricem Addicted

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast
    the lady boys I saw in Thailand were pretty skinny, dont think they'd do much for you on a cold night, does the alpine species have a higher R value? (asking for a friend).
     
    Chaeron, skull, skifree and 1 other person like this.
  46. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    37,083
    Likes Received:
    36,470
    Location:
    woonona
    One of the biggest issues at the NRMA park is it can look all benign and calm down by the lake.
    People set up these gazebos and large campsites .
    Not appreciating how windy it can get.
    Then this happens (this was only 10 days ago)
     
    Sage Oya likes this.
  47. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    37,083
    Likes Received:
    36,470
    Location:
    woonona
  48. Sage Oya

    Sage Oya Like the herb, lover of Pabst, cup ramen devotee Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    2,068
    Location:
    Sydney
    So long awning :confused:
     
    Donzah likes this.
  49. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    37,083
    Likes Received:
    36,470
    Location:
    woonona
    This was before it got really windy (was GF sunday)

    *i've had a van in Jindy for 25 seasons. Have seen it all.
    Mind you. Not many people were brave enough to camp until recently
     
    Sage Oya and telecrag like this.
  50. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,923
    Likes Received:
    6,361
    Location:
    Melbourne
    If all goes well I should make it up to Cleve Cole Hut on Mt.Bogong next white season , now that I am a Bogong Club member :).Of course I have many bushwalking /camping trips to do this green season.