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Camping Stoves

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by janus, Jun 22, 2005.

  1. janus

    janus One of Us

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    I'm looking at the Kovea Camp 3 Titanium Gas stove. Obvisouly gas in the alpine during winter is an issue, but this seems like a lighter packing alternative to liquid fuel.

    Any comments/suggestions?
     
  2. janus

    janus One of Us

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    [​IMG]
     
    #2 janus, Jun 22, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  3. telemark fred

    telemark fred One of Us

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    I prefer liquid fuel stoves (other than metho) because:

    Gas is difficult to light in the very cold temps, and I dont like sleeping with my fuel cannister in my bag.

    No empty cannisters - these add up if its a long trip.

    I reckon you get better efficiency from the liquid fuels. ie - a greater number of litres boiled per kg of fuel.

    You can use alternative fuels that are cheap and readily available when the camping shops are shut - eg Unleaded petrol.
     
  4. Sean

    Sean First Runs

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    I've got the coleman outlander micro... about $30 bucks cheaper I think...

    http://www.sherryscamping.com.au/prod85.htm

    (the link above incorrectly says the micro has piezo ignition- it's big brother the outlander does)
     
    #4 Sean, Jun 22, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
  5. janus

    janus One of Us

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    Sean, have you used it in sub zero temps?

    Telefred, I like the look of the MSR liquid fuel stoves and the functionality for snow camping, but I'm not spending $200 on a camping stove.. maybe I'll find one on ebay at some stage second hadn.
     
  6. Luko

    Luko One of Us

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    I've got a MSR Whisperlite International (~$160 I think?) and have used in snow etc and have been extremely happy with it. I only use shellite with it thought (would never use metho again!)
     
  7. Belly

    Belly A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    See what the more seasoned BC people say but I'd be weary of a second hand liquid fuel stove, given what I've read about blockages, etc.

    I here you re the $$$, I've fully equipped myself for overnighting during this summer and it aint cheap, but I figure they are assets that will last. And I'd rather be warm and dry and having a nice hot meal and drink than the other option.

    I've used my MSR SimmerLite a few times now, love it :thumbs:
     
  8. anzu

    anzu First Runs

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    Msr whisperlite for sure,I bought it in Japan 12years ago and have used it 8-10 times per year.You can buy all the parts to service it in the field and it is unstoppable.Just get one they rock!!!!
     
  9. janus

    janus One of Us

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    Yeah, it'd be good, but for 4 times the price of a gas stove attachment is it really worth it?
     
  10. NeoSamurai

    NeoSamurai One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    If I retrace my steps I can probably find it.
    Yes! In cold to very cold (and windy) conditions (ie. below 10C) there is NO substitute!

    janus, I bought my MSR DragonFly multifuel stove NEW (including MSR fuel bottle) from a store on eBay (USA) last year for AUD$95 delivered - compared to AUD$280 in shops here!

    As the others said forget Gas or Metho in a really cold enviroment, you'll REALLY regret it!
    (You'll be freezing your balls off while eating some luke warm half cooked meal)
     
    #10 NeoSamurai, Jun 22, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  11. Sean

    Sean First Runs

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    Nope, haven't used the gas in freezing conditions- that's not what I use it for. I was showing you a cheaper alternative to the gas stove you were considering...
     
  12. telemark fred

    telemark fred One of Us

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    The gas cannisters are costly too - you recoup the extra up front cost with cheaper runing costs eventually if you use it often.
     
  13. Makka

    Makka First Runs

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    You want cheap and light-weight. Check these out!

    http://www.minibulldesign.com

    He even includes a video so you can make them yourself in 3 minutes!
     
    #13 Makka, Jun 22, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
  14. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    My dragonfly is fantastic. Have cooked with it on both shellite and kero no problems. Didn't take my jet kit once and it still ran on the shellite jet with kero but only at about 90% throttle.
    So its a little loud but just knowing that its going to fire up everytime no matter the temperature is a huge comfort. I have been in -11 near round mountain in autumn, all the trangias would not run, only 2 of us had shellite stoves, mine and a whisperlite, guess what everyone used to cook breakfast.
    The other issue is fuel usage. For the trip I used about 1/3 of the fuel that the metho stoves used.
    Never used a canister stove, cannot comment.
     
  15. janus

    janus One of Us

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    So with the Dragonfly did you get 2 different jets??
     
  16. sidetrack

    sidetrack One of Us

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    I have a Msr pocket rocket that I have used on some shorter alpine trips, 3-4 days where I cook mainly packet food and it's great because it's light and quick. Ive used it down to about minus 5 and it took only slightly longer to boil water. On longer trips or if it is going to be colder i use my international. If you can get a second hand MSR liquid fuel stove it should be ok if you replace all the parts that come in a maintance kit.

    Note do not fully encase gas canister with a wind sheild.
     
  17. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've a Coleman peak 1: run it on unleaded or shellite... has served me well for 8 years.
     
  18. Makka

    Makka First Runs

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    I would however go the dragonfly if you are nuts enough to go camping in the snow. Those 'Pepsi Stoves' are great in summer but I'm not sure I would go for cheap whatever you decide on getting. It may become a survival issue, not just a hot dinner.
     
  19. janus

    janus One of Us

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    Thanks all.
     
  20. janus

    janus One of Us

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    So the whisperlite, which burns only white fuel...what does that cover, is it easy and cheap to get fuel for this cooker?
     
  21. Rolo

    Rolo One of Us

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    I have that exact Kovea stove, but it was bought to supplement the times that an MSR W/lite International is a bit overkill - so not purchased for multi-day snowcamps. Small, light and enough run time on two cannisters to do the vast majority of my trips. Note that I'll always carry a small lighter despite piezo, as that thing not working would really suck.

    MSR Whisperlite RRP is about $160 (-10% standard outdoor retail discount), wouldn't bother with second hand as you'll probably need to replace everything and the kit for that is $30-40, so save time/effort and acquire new.
     
  22. janus

    janus One of Us

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    If I can get a new MSR Wisperlite International for under AUD100 that's a pretty schweet deal isn't it..?
     
  23. telemark fred

    telemark fred One of Us

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  24. telemark fred

    telemark fred One of Us

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    And the international one comes with a priming wick and two jets - giving it the capacity to burn a variety of fuels.
     
  25. janus

    janus One of Us

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    Thanks [​IMG]
     
    #25 janus, Jun 22, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  26. Luko

    Luko One of Us

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    MSR Whisperlite
    White gas = Shellite which you can get from your local supermarket - costs about $3 for a 1lt bottle which lasts me a few trips.
     
    #26 Luko, Jun 22, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  27. janus

    janus One of Us

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    So the only difference between the two is that the international has a wick for using kero?..
     
  28. legend

    legend One of Us

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    The coleman dual fuel (runs on shellite & unleaded) is completely trouble free. Great for two, very economic to use and fully adjustable flame from full on (boils litre in 4 min) to a very gentle simmer. Most popular alpine stove in the VMTC. Have seen several MSR's hurled out of tents when the O ring goes - makes for an entertaining night.
    I also use the Kovea Camp 3 Titanium Gas stove as a bushwalking stove, but have found it difficult to go when temps are close to freezing.
     
  29. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    no, wick is for preheating. pump up the pressure, dribble some fuel into the bowl and wick, light the wick, flame will heat the fuel path allowing fuel in tube to vapourise. internationals have interchangable jets, thats what gives you the ability to vary. normally one jet will allow you to use , ulp, avgas, shellite. The other jet will do diesel, kero, jetA1.
    If you dont have a need to simmer get an XGK. it only has one setting, flat out.
     
  30. Sean

    Sean First Runs

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    #30 Sean, Jun 22, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
  31. dusty

    dusty First Runs

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    Been using coleman peak for about 20 years still works still great in snow camping use shellite fuel
     
  32. omnioz

    omnioz First Runs

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    Janus- if you get the Kovea, watch out how you tighten it to the canister as the igniter breaks off very easily if you are not holding the stove properly- plus this stove is easily effected by wind as the burners face out not up like a pocketrocket(which also has little wind sheild.

    go the MSR D/fly best stove i've ever used!

    are people still using metho in the snow? wow, who can wait that long after carying so much fuel to eat tepid gruel(sic) :fishing: [​IMG]
     
    #32 omnioz, Jun 23, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  33. Romfrantic

    Romfrantic Hard Yards

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    I have the multi-fuel Optimus Nova ( http://www.optimus.se/products/nova/ ) and is great, specially the simmer function. A Swedish alternative to the MSR varieties, which you can also fit into a Trangia set-up. How's that for versitility.
     
    #33 Romfrantic, Jun 23, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
  34. telemarx

    telemarx A Local

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    I've used unleaded in my international. It works perfectly but is a little dirty. Shellite is cleaner & not hard to get so I use that.
     
  35. telemark fred

    telemark fred One of Us

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    I have used shellite, unleaded, kero, diesel and turps in my whisperlite.

    They go from clean burning to noxious fumes and dirty in the order listed. Turps is very definitely not recommended du to the fumes (it does burn very hot though, and with no soot). I tried all those as an experiment only, i generally use shellite exclusively, and unleaded only when no shellite is available (late night servo job en-route to the snow usually)...
     
  36. janus

    janus One of Us

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    I'm looking at a dragonfly for about $110 delivered... will need a fuel bottle though.
     
  37. snowshoe_fiend

    snowshoe_fiend Hard Yards

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    I have an MSR Rapidfire, which is basically a Whisperlite which runs on gas. I got mine 12 years ago and it’s still going strong for summer walking (although I don’t know if they’re still available). After a few snow expeditions I found the Rapidfire couldn’t hack it in the cold, even on isobutane and other funky low-temperature fuels, so I got a Whisperlite and haven’t looked back since. If I was buying one now I might look at the Optimus Nova or MSR Simmerlite, but the Whisperlite is a good, proven design.
     
  38. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    janus, i have 2 bottles, a 300 ml for short trips and a 1 litre longer, why carry more than you have to?
     
  39. janus

    janus One of Us

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    Good call. I guess the 1L would last a long time..
     
  40. gusc

    gusc Hard Yards

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    I allow 150 mL of shellite per person per day (including melting snow) and it seems to work out just right.

    i.e. 1 x 600mL MSR bottle = a 2-person weekend of snow camping
     
    #40 gusc, Jun 23, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  41. aquafelix

    aquafelix First Runs

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    MSR Simmerlite, lighweight, simmers well and doesn't sound like a 747 on takeoff
     
  42. telemark fred

    telemark fred One of Us

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    The large bottle is good as your only bottle (if you have room in your pack). Simply put in 300ml when you want only 300ml... The stoves run best with a large air space in the bottle anyway as the pressure change is less abrupt with removal of some fuel during use. This is particularly true for the whisperlite, though not such an issue with the simmerlite or dragonfly.
     
  43. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I bought a second had MSR Whisperlight in 1990-ish for about $40 from someone who was dead scared of it. They must have had a flare up. It continues to perform faithfully all these years later. I use the little wire needle to clean the jets out when the performance degrades and to this day I still get orange-hot metal. The plastic in the pump unit is getting a little brittle with age but 15 years use is not bad. Maybe I was lucky but a secondhand purchase has worked out really well for me.
     
  44. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    telemark-fred, just pump the unit a couple of times as the pressure drops with a fullish bottle. It's no trouble to do and stoves should be attended when in use anyway.
     
  45. telemark fred

    telemark fred One of Us

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    PK Sawd - Yup, I do this already. Its the preferred strategy over fooling with the valve - this leads to chasing your tail as the flame is slow to respond. I have got simmering my whisperlite down to a fine art now. My trangia mate still says "thats not simmering, its just going out slowly..."

    The comment I made is is still valid though, when the bottle is less full you dont have to keep topping up the pressure as often, and it holds a low flame better for simmering.
     
  46. telemark fred

    telemark fred One of Us

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    Yep - I find the noise of the dragonfly really noxious. The simmerlite is a more refined version of the whislerlite - if I were buying now this is what I would get. I understand the dragonfly is supposed to be faster, but real world experience as taught me that there is actually littel difference in performance between dragonfly/whislerlite/simmerlite in that arena.
     
    #46 telemark fred, Jun 23, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  47. DaveM

    DaveM One of Us

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    I'va had a whisperlite for about 6 years in all sorts of conditions and wouldn't swap it for the world. I Use only shellite and can't see myself deviating from that. VERY economical on fuel and works nicely in all conditions. Certainly been well pleased in heavy snow conditions etc in Tas.

    Can be exciting learning to start it up but once you get the knack it great. You can always tell a novice or someone with not much idea when watching them start them up - lots of big yellow flare up. If you get it right you keep it well contained. I see it as a bit of a walking badge of honour.
    [​IMG]
     
    #47 DaveM, Jun 23, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  48. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    agree with the 150mm per p/day including melting snow.
    100mm/day otherwise.
     
  49. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I whole heartedly agree with all Whisperlite recommendations. I bought mine in the US in 1989. Have used it extensively ever since. Occasional o ring change but that's about it. Simmering can be an issue but there are ways as noted by others.
    What I also do, particularly when snow camping, is carry a small (100ml) bottle with a 50/50 mix of shellite and metho and use this for priming. Pour a bit into the cup and light. Great for use in vestibules because there is no flare up at all.

    Great stove.
     
  50. janus

    janus One of Us

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    So out of the simmerlite, dragonfly and wisperlite, most people seem to prefer the wisperlite..