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Camping Stoves

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by janus, Jun 22, 2005.

  1. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    I prefer my stove to sound like its an escapee from a JPL facility.
     
  2. Graeme

    Graeme First Runs Endless Winter

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    I agree with 150ml pp/day including snowmelting, but for summer use 75ml pp/day is plenty
     
  3. gusc

    gusc Hard Yards

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    I usually only hear that from Trangia owners! - they have enough time to think up insults while they wait for their snow to melt!! [​IMG]
    ...although I must admit I would have bought the Simmerlite over my Dragonfly if the quieter stove was around when I was buying.

    BTW, there was what seemed like a pretty good article on maintaining your stove in the field in the 2nd-last Climbing magazine edition - particularly aimed at people who had to burn dirty fuels like kero on overseas expeditions. I think the same edition that had the 'vergrass' climbing article.
     
    #53 gusc, Jun 23, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2013
  4. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Originally posted by Shrek
    ....and if you run it on kero you even get the right exhaust fumes. [​IMG]
     
    #54 GS, Jun 23, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2013
  5. telemark fred

    telemark fred One of Us

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    The whisperlite ahs been around the longest, followed by dragonfly then simmerlite. Thus most of us have experience with the whisperlite and it has a proven track record. Its hard to simmer and thats where the other two are better. The decibel output of the dragonfly is around 3-4 times that of the other two (at least).

    Like I said already - if I were buying now, I would get the simmerlite. :thumbs:
     
    #55 telemark fred, Jun 23, 2005
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  6. Belly

    Belly A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ok, newbie alert, I had issues with flame-up during my field testing at Johanna and got 'those' looks.

    Excuse the terminology but I assume I was using too much fuel for the warming cycle and then turning on too fast??

    Therefore to reduce flame-ups I need just a small amount of fuel for warming and then slowly turn on??
     
  7. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Belly,
    You're probably turning on too soon rather than too much priming fuel or then turning on too 'fast'. But turning on slowly will certainly keep the flames down if it hasn't warmed up enough.
     
  8. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    And as a general rule the more windy it is, or the colder it is, the longer it will take to prime. More priming fuel maybe required in these conditions.

    And Johanna is normally rather windy....
     
  9. Belly

    Belly A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thanks GS, yeah, I don't think I was letting it heat-up enough. I'll practise some more :cheers:
     
  10. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    graeme I often walk/ski with big tea drinkers, with big camp kitchen ideas... [​IMG]
     
    #60 Majikthise, Jun 23, 2005
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  11. Simonn

    Simonn First Runs

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    We must be some of those "big tea drinkers with big camp kitchen ideas"..

    I use a Trangia with the Primus gas burner instead of the metho candle - over 3 weeks of bushwalking in NZ earlier this year we consistently used under 40g gas/person/day - and that was with a cooked brekky, afternoon soup & dinner (and not just boiling for freeze-dried - we are talking cooking!), and at least 4 hot drinks per person per day. ie a 440gm canister was lasting 3 of us four days.

    It is at least as efficient as shellite MSR (I have an MSR XGK as well), just as fast, quieter, and safer. Efficiency has to be affected by the integrated windshield and the nesting of pots etc.

    The overall stove weight - which includes 2 pots, frypan etc (!)- is about 450g more than an MSR with a MSR pot set. Either system can be made lighter, but *for me* the extra weight is compensated for by the ease of use and safety. Cooking for three on ours is easy, and on a long trip the weight difference is small.

    I used the Trangia last year on a five-day trip to Mt Bogoing, and the fuel consumption was similar (no snow melting required). This burner has a pre-heat loop (like the multi-fuel MSR stoves) and should be more efficient in cold weather than the standard gas burner which has no pre-heat.

    I will be taking it out again this winter, not near a hut, so we will see how it goes. Maybe in cold weather it will be crap..??

    Horses for courses...

    Notes - I know you can put together much lighter stoves - a single burner with a tiny Al billy - but I don't want to try to cook on such a thing (or watch it tip over from the vibrations of the boiling water...).
    Trangias can also use a multi-fuel burner (primus..??) to combine the cold-weather efficiency of the burner with the aesthetic/design efficiency.
    Also - people still use metho trangias in the snow!!! Saw one last year on Mt Bogong!
     
  12. Sean

    Sean First Runs

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    Now as someone who has used gas stoves for probably 15 years, I like having my eyebrows... love to hear you shellite stove owners tell us about any "incidents" you may have had (or heard of)... since the dreaded flare up was mentioned [​IMG]
     
    #62 Sean, Jun 23, 2005
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  13. omnioz

    omnioz First Runs

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    :clap: :clap:
     
    #63 omnioz, Jun 23, 2005
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  14. omnioz

    omnioz First Runs

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    really, which OZ store is doin' that? i gotta get me another at that price!

    :fishing:
     
    #64 omnioz, Jun 23, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  15. gusc

    gusc Hard Yards

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    Whooooooooooooooooooooooooooshshshshshshshshshshsh.

    I can't hear you over the roar of my Dragonfly [​IMG]

    In all seriousness, is the Primus bit a commercial add-on or your own addition? Sounds quite dinky.

    Can't beat Trannies' stability but, as the big dude in Highlander said:
    "It's better to burn out than to fade away!"

    Dare to flare [up].
     
    #65 gusc, Jun 23, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  16. legend

    legend One of Us

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    Scariest with a gas stove was when the stove was cross threaded. Gas quickly escaped and thankfully no match was struck.
    As was said earlier, atleast 4 flaming MSR's have been seen flying out of tents when O rings have perished and not been replaced.
    Have also seen grass fires started in vestibules when trangia's have caught the grass on fire.
    Every stove can be lethal and cause a bit of anx when things go pear shape - always watch, never trust them and never leave them unattended!!
     
  17. telemark fred

    telemark fred One of Us

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    I once had a couple of girls think that they could just turn on the tap and light the burner on the whisperlite like a gas cooker. They did not know about the pre-heating requirement. The stove was sitting on a picnic table at island bend, and when I turned around to see what the shrieking was about, there was a column of flames rising nearly a metre above the heatshield, and flames on the ground beneath where the burning fuel had run off the table.

    Simply calmly turning off the knob and moving the stove to another spot was sufficient to avert a disaster.


    I was glad they were not cooking in my vestible...
     
    #67 telemark fred, Jun 23, 2005
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  18. telemark fred

    telemark fred One of Us

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    Plenty of people still use metho stoves in the snow. They are still hard to light, slow, and require a greater volume and mass of fuel for the same job. Those are the reasons i wouldnt use one.

    Your efficiency experience with gas is not the norm in my experience. Maybe economies of scale help, cooking for 4 uses only about twice the fuel as cooking for one does...

    Gas can be hard to light in very cold enviroments, though its generally ok. It is fine inside a hut for example.
     
    #68 telemark fred, Jun 23, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2013
  19. Romfrantic

    Romfrantic Hard Yards

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    Simonn, I have(and use) a Trangia set-up, with the option of using gas or multi-fuel (Optimus Nova). I have tried the gas option while snow camping before using the Trangia, and I must say the efficiency was amazing, much better than I expected (and so blissfully quiet and clean) - the Trangia shield made a big difference! . One thing though, we placed a small piece of closed-cell foam under the gas canister so it wouldn't touch the snow (or even better, slightly raised) and that also improved the efficiency. No problems at all.

    Whilst I would still use the Optimus Nova (shellite) option while snow camping for more than 2-3 days (way more efficient fuel use in the long term), I still occationally use the gas option for an o'night trip (also because I still have a few half-used gas canisters at home that I'd like to use up eventually!).
     
    #69 Romfrantic, Jun 24, 2005
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  20. Chudak

    Chudak First Runs

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    My best MSR experience:

    Four or five MSRs happily bubbling away on the table in Schlink Hilton. One goes out. Someone says, 'Hang on, I'll just relight that', opens up the valve, puts the match to the stove...and I reckon you can fill in the rest of the details for yourself. [​IMG]

    No-one was seriously injured, and the hut is still standing, as far as I know.
     
    #70 Chudak, Jun 24, 2005
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  21. snowshoe_fiend

    snowshoe_fiend Hard Yards

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    I have had a situation where water dripped on my MSR Rapidfire (a gas-burning Whisperlite) and entered the burner. When I started it, the water caused a flare-up which nearly set fire to my vestibule. Fortunately the tent fly was wet and so didn't catch easily.
     
  22. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    FFS dont use your whisperlite in yer tent. I've got one, love it, i've run it on every imaginable fuel in many countries, but i would not use it near my tent. Set up a light fly to cook in if you want shelter in the snow.
     
  23. dusty

    dusty First Runs

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    The more flammable the fuel the more dangerous the stove most dangerous gas,then metho,then shellite(white fuel-unleaded petrol) safest kero
     
  24. dusty

    dusty First Runs

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    The more flammable the fuel the more dangerous the stove most dangerous gas,then metho,then shellite(white fuel-unleaded petrol) safest kero
     
  25. Sean

    Sean First Runs

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    if you want to go down that path... then esbit fuel is the safest of all!
     
  26. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Shrek, if your conversation was any good we would suggest you get a quieter stove...but as it is...just keep the rocket motor burning.

    [​IMG]
     
    #76 skifree, Jun 25, 2005
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  27. satanas

    satanas Addicted

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    So, are all you guys suggesting MSR stoves because they are the loudest, most macho option or what??? We took two XGKs to India a few years ago, and had no end of trouble with the POSs, and that's without being deafened and poisoned by fumes.

    Plenty of people are quite happy to use Trangias ski touring - including a majority in my ski club - because they are quiet, reliable, stable, etc. IME, fuel efficiency isn't that much lower, but user blood pressure is(!), plus it's a lot safer to use the stove in the vestibule, with little risk of having melted nylon fused to one's skin.

    By the time the MSR user next door has a few near-explosions and swearing matches, total time taken often isn't much different. Oh yes, Trangias simmer okay too... And, as others have mentioned, you can always use gas/multifuel burners in the Trangia surrounds if going somewhere metho isn't available.

    The reason that MSRs are "field maintainable" is because they are so unreliable that they need to be, and I'm saying this based on plenty of personal experience!
     
  28. Unknown

    Unknown First Runs

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    Question...? some people have mentioned using various branded multi fuels in trangias. But no one has mentioned using trangia multi fuels in a trangia. Is there a reason why this is? or is this a very stupid question.
     
  29. telemarx

    telemarx A Local

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    If you've heard his taste in music you'll understand why he doesn't think his stove is noisy :headbang:
     
    #79 telemarx, Jun 25, 2005
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  30. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    you guys will keep. :p
    For all those shellite stove users, i cannot stress this enough, check and test run your stove before a trip. If mine has spent some time in a cupboard for any reason I always pull it out and cook a meal on it at home about a week before a trip. That way I know there will no problems and i am familiar with starting procedures.
     
  31. satanas

    satanas Addicted

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    That'd explain the burn marks on the carpet then... :evil:
     
  32. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    nah, that's something else entirely. [​IMG]
     
    #82 Shrek, Jun 25, 2005
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  33. dusty

    dusty First Runs

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    If you're not using a use a stove for awhile you should clean out fuel completely before putting away
     
  34. omnioz

    omnioz First Runs

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    maybe me and my mates have a special selaction channel in our hearing, coz we seem to manage to converse over several stoves roaring- they arn't going all night youknow!

    trangias in the snow... [​IMG]
     
    #84 omnioz, Jun 26, 2005
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  35. SWANK-E

    SWANK-E First Runs

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    I have used Trangia in the snow for the last few years, so far no problem, only thing is that i stick the metho thingy inside my jacket for about 15 minutes prior to cooking, that does the trick in lighting it. Ok, I haven't been in any hardcore emergency life-saving situations, but for what we have been doing, it's great.

    In regards to why people talking about other brands and not talking about Trangia's own multifuel stove, it is because the Trangia's own is an Optimus, they have bought up Optimus, who apparently were the original company that came up with the system that MSR is currently using.

    If you already have a Trangia, using the Trangia multifuel addition is the way to go, otherwise if you are starting from scratch, then MSR is the way to go. MSRs are the most serviceable stoves in the market, and are designed to do so, from a mountaineering perspective where you'd need to have the stove working weeks or months on end, solely surviving on it for cooking at base camp. When an o-ring goes in an MSR, it is worth replacing all parts with your maintenance kit because if the o-ring is on the way out, something else is probably on the way out too. When you replace all the parts, you pretty much have a brand new stove ready to go again.

    Happy cooking
     
    #85 SWANK-E, Jun 26, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  36. satanas

    satanas Addicted

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    I really don't understand why everybody here is so anti-Trangia; maybe you guys carry ghetto-blasters when you go camping too! The *only* reason I'd take a petrol stove instead is if going somewhere the only fuel likely to be available is petrol or <shudder> kero.

    We decided to use kero in India as by all accounts it was going to be the only thing available. This is true at places like Namche Bazaar where fuel is carried in by porter but oddly enough, anywhere near roads petrol is available.

    At high-ish altitude and cool temps, kero will not light without EXTREME difficulty! The first night camping it took ~15 minutes to get the kero to ignite at all... We ended up carrying a small bottle of petrol as primer, then decided to just bin the kero as petrol is less hassle all round. Things don't get covered in soot and black smoke, or stink as much.

    Regarding servicing MSRs: if you replace other bits at the same time as the o-ring, keep all the parts you took out!!!!!! You may need them later on. We had to clean the stoves at least once a day on average due to the dirty fuel. Coleman filter funnels are supposed to be good; filter paper is way too slow.

    That's it, I'm going to bed now before I collapse from lack of sleeeeeeeeeeeee............................
     
  37. satanas

    satanas Addicted

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    I really don't understand why everybody here is so anti-Trangia; maybe you guys carry ghetto-blasters when you go camping too! The *only* reason I'd take a petrol stove instead is if going somewhere the only fuel likely to be available is petrol or <shudder> kero.

    We decided to use kero in India as by all accounts it was going to be the only thing available. This is true at places like Namche Bazaar where fuel is carried in by porter but oddly enough, anywhere near roads petrol is available.

    At high-ish altitude and cool temps, kero will not light without EXTREME difficulty! The first night camping it took ~15 minutes to get the kero to ignite at all... We ended up carrying a small bottle of petrol as primer, then decided to just bin the kero as petrol is less hassle all round. Things don't get covered in soot and black smoke, or stink as much.

    Regarding servicing MSRs: if you replace other bits at the same time as the o-ring, keep all the parts you took out!!!!!! You may need them later on. We had to clean the stoves at least once a day on average due to the dirty fuel. Coleman filter funnels are supposed to be good; filter paper is way too slow.

    That's it, I'm going to bed now before I collapse from lack of sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
     
  38. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Santanas I used a trangie for around 10 years and have mates who also use them ski touring. They are an excellent stove. But, having now used a Whisperlight for even longer I am more than comfortable to be using that. No flare-ups. No frights. No swearing. Not ever. I always seem to have a cup of tea in my hands quicker than my mates with the Trangia but the tiem saved isn't really that important in a lazy base camp after a long day yo-yoing. It's all good. (I often take a different solvent or paste to prime with as it is less sooty than burning shellite in the primer cup).

    A mate of mine uses a wire mat to diffuse the flame of his Whisperlight when cooking risotto or pancakes and it works really well.
     
  39. telemark fred

    telemark fred One of Us

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    I have nothing against trangias either. Like PK sawd i have mates who use them in the snow too. Like him I have never had any dramas with my whisperlite either after many years.

    I do like that i can light mine more easily than a trangia and be finished cooking earlier tho ...
     
  40. TonyB

    TonyB First Runs

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    I've been using a Trangia for about the past 35 years in the snow ... takes maybe 10 minutes to boil ... not that time is ever an issue. Putting a bit of water in the metho makes it burn very clean but that makes it harder to see the flame.
     
  41. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    The MSR Whisperlite is quiet but not as quiet as a MSR.

    The MSR XGK and Dragonfly are noisy. Think F18 flying in circles about your camp site.
     
  42. Sean

    Sean First Runs

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    Isn't there some sort of gel available now that you can use for priming these wannabe jet engines?
     
  43. Kieran

    Kieran A Local

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    Yeah, priming paste. Alternatively I've seen people use metho (I think) in an eyedropper to just put a small amount in the priming cup to get things started.

    K
     
  44. Rolo

    Rolo One of Us

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    Coghlan's "Fire Paste" is the primer of choice after numerous experiments with solid and liquid options - cleanest burn, and sticks to the fuel line for better priming in windy weather. Small nalgene container's worth is heaps, and just use the end of a utensil to apply.

    R
     
  45. imj

    imj First Runs

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    I've used a Trangia fro an embarrasing no. of years with no trouble at all. Recently tried a gas stove cause they're cheap, easy and light, and am converted. After reading about the troubles with cold weather I should be having I wonder if the extra money is worthwhile.
    Checking the comparison chart on the MSR website there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference in speed or efficiency when comparing gas to liquid fuel. [​IMG]
     
    #95 imj, Jun 28, 2005
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  46. Roger Caffin

    Roger Caffin Hard Yards

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    See http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/ under Stoves, especially under gas stoves.

    Cheers
     
    #96 Roger Caffin, Jun 28, 2005
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  47. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep, i use one of those camping 'toaster' thingys for this. It also stops pots sliding of the 3 tangs of the whisperlite.

    Also boiling rice, just hell-boil it for 5 mins, wrap the pot in something insulative and let it absorb in its own heat. Cook the sauce in meantime. Quick blast at the end and rice is ready to go.
     
    #97 mr, Jun 28, 2005
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  48. Roger Caffin

    Roger Caffin Hard Yards

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    1. See the FAQ, and do the sums. Doesn't work that way.

    2. Actually, field experience is the reverse. I was using about 60 g of kero per day (for two people), but only about 30 g of gas.
     
    #98 Roger Caffin, Jun 28, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  49. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    if you have access to a dehydrator, rice (cooked) is excellent dehydration fodder. It reduces to featherweight, and rehydrates really well. Bugger this 'cooking' stuff. I like to just add water [​IMG]
     
    #99 climberman, Jun 28, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  50. Roger Caffin

    Roger Caffin Hard Yards

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    re gas in cold snow conditions:

    Yes, an ordinary gas stove WILL have problems once the temp goes sub-zero. Isobutane fuel helps, but still problems.

    However, if you want luxury cooking in the snow, try a Coleman Powermax stove - Expert or something similar. It uses a separate gas cartridge at the end of a hose, and works down to ... well, maybe -30 C or lower.

    Or, if a trifle bolder, use a SnowPeak GSD 200 with a separate cartridge, and TIP THE CARTRIDGE UPSIDE DOWN.

    I think there is a cheap Kovea gas stove which has the cartridge at the end of a hose. Same story.

    For the record: I have owned and used one metho stove, about 4 different petrol stoves, 2 - 3 kero stoves, and several gas stoves.

    Cheers