Camping Stoves

Graeme

First Runs
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Sep 25, 2003
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I agree with 150ml pp/day including snowmelting, but for summer use 75ml pp/day is plenty
 

gusc

Hard Yards
Jul 27, 2004
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Melbourne
telemark fred said:
Yep - I find the noise of the dragonfly really noxious.
I usually only hear that from Trangia owners! - they have enough time to think up insults while they wait for their snow to melt!!
wink.gif

...although I must admit I would have bought the Simmerlite over my Dragonfly if the quieter stove was around when I was buying.

BTW, there was what seemed like a pretty good article on maintaining your stove in the field in the 2nd-last Climbing magazine edition - particularly aimed at people who had to burn dirty fuels like kero on overseas expeditions. I think the same edition that had the 'vergrass' climbing article.
 
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GS

Part of the Furniture
Ski Pass
May 20, 2004
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Originally posted by Shrek
I prefer my stove to sound like its an escapee from a JPL facility.
....and if you run it on kero you even get the right exhaust fumes.
smile.gif
 
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telemark fred

One of Us
May 20, 2002
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janus said:
So out of the simmerlite, dragonfly and wisperlite, most people seem to prefer the wisperlite..
The whisperlite ahs been around the longest, followed by dragonfly then simmerlite. Thus most of us have experience with the whisperlite and it has a proven track record. Its hard to simmer and thats where the other two are better. The decibel output of the dragonfly is around 3-4 times that of the other two (at least).

Like I said already - if I were buying now, I would get the simmerlite. :thumbs:
 
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Belly

A Local
Ski Pass
Oct 22, 2003
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Ok, newbie alert, I had issues with flame-up during my field testing at Johanna and got 'those' looks.

Excuse the terminology but I assume I was using too much fuel for the warming cycle and then turning on too fast??

Therefore to reduce flame-ups I need just a small amount of fuel for warming and then slowly turn on??
 

GS

Part of the Furniture
Ski Pass
May 20, 2004
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Belly,
You're probably turning on too soon rather than too much priming fuel or then turning on too 'fast'. But turning on slowly will certainly keep the flames down if it hasn't warmed up enough.
 

GS

Part of the Furniture
Ski Pass
May 20, 2004
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And as a general rule the more windy it is, or the colder it is, the longer it will take to prime. More priming fuel maybe required in these conditions.

And Johanna is normally rather windy....
 

Majikthise

Sage
Moderator
Ski Pass
Jan 1, 1970
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graeme I often walk/ski with big tea drinkers, with big camp kitchen ideas...
wink.gif
 
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Simonn

First Runs
Jul 27, 2004
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South coast WA
We must be some of those "big tea drinkers with big camp kitchen ideas"..

I use a Trangia with the Primus gas burner instead of the metho candle - over 3 weeks of bushwalking in NZ earlier this year we consistently used under 40g gas/person/day - and that was with a cooked brekky, afternoon soup & dinner (and not just boiling for freeze-dried - we are talking cooking!), and at least 4 hot drinks per person per day. ie a 440gm canister was lasting 3 of us four days.

It is at least as efficient as shellite MSR (I have an MSR XGK as well), just as fast, quieter, and safer. Efficiency has to be affected by the integrated windshield and the nesting of pots etc.

The overall stove weight - which includes 2 pots, frypan etc (!)- is about 450g more than an MSR with a MSR pot set. Either system can be made lighter, but *for me* the extra weight is compensated for by the ease of use and safety. Cooking for three on ours is easy, and on a long trip the weight difference is small.

I used the Trangia last year on a five-day trip to Mt Bogoing, and the fuel consumption was similar (no snow melting required). This burner has a pre-heat loop (like the multi-fuel MSR stoves) and should be more efficient in cold weather than the standard gas burner which has no pre-heat.

I will be taking it out again this winter, not near a hut, so we will see how it goes. Maybe in cold weather it will be crap..??

Horses for courses...

Notes - I know you can put together much lighter stoves - a single burner with a tiny Al billy - but I don't want to try to cook on such a thing (or watch it tip over from the vibrations of the boiling water...).
Trangias can also use a multi-fuel burner (primus..??) to combine the cold-weather efficiency of the burner with the aesthetic/design efficiency.
Also - people still use metho trangias in the snow!!! Saw one last year on Mt Bogong!
 

Sean

First Runs
Jan 1, 1970
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Cronulla, NSW
Now as someone who has used gas stoves for probably 15 years, I like having my eyebrows... love to hear you shellite stove owners tell us about any "incidents" you may have had (or heard of)... since the dreaded flare up was mentioned
smile.gif
 
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omnioz

First Runs
Jul 9, 2002
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melbourne
gusc said:
telemark fred said:
Yep - I find the noise of the dragonfly really noxious.
I usually only hear that from Trangia owners! - they have enough time to think up insults while they wait for their snow to melt!!
wink.gif

...although I must admit I would have bought the Simmerlite over my Dragonfly if the quieter stove was around when I was buying.

BTW, there was what seemed like a pretty good article on maintaining your stove in the field in the 2nd-last Climbing magazine edition - particularly aimed at people who had to burn dirty fuels like kero on overseas expeditions. I think the same edition that had the 'vergrass' climbing article.
:clap: :clap:
 
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omnioz

First Runs
Jul 9, 2002
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janus said:
I'm looking at a dragonfly for about $110 delivered... will need a fuel bottle though.
really, which OZ store is doin' that? i gotta get me another at that price!

:fishing:
 
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gusc

Hard Yards
Jul 27, 2004
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Melbourne
Simonn said:
We must be some of those "big tea drinkers with big camp kitchen ideas"..

I use a Trangia with the Primus gas burner instead of the metho candle - over 3 weeks of bushwalking in NZ earlier this year we consistently used under 40g gas/person/day - and that was with a cooked brekky, afternoon soup & dinner (and not just boiling for freeze-dried - we are talking cooking!), and at least 4 hot drinks per person per day. ie a 440gm canister was lasting 3 of us four days.....
Whooooooooooooooooooooooooooshshshshshshshshshshsh.

I can't hear you over the roar of my Dragonfly
wink.gif


In all seriousness, is the Primus bit a commercial add-on or your own addition? Sounds quite dinky.

Can't beat Trannies' stability but, as the big dude in Highlander said:
"It's better to burn out than to fade away!"

Dare to flare [up].
 
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legend

One of Us
Aug 22, 2004
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Scariest with a gas stove was when the stove was cross threaded. Gas quickly escaped and thankfully no match was struck.
As was said earlier, atleast 4 flaming MSR's have been seen flying out of tents when O rings have perished and not been replaced.
Have also seen grass fires started in vestibules when trangia's have caught the grass on fire.
Every stove can be lethal and cause a bit of anx when things go pear shape - always watch, never trust them and never leave them unattended!!
 

telemark fred

One of Us
May 20, 2002
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Sean said:
Now as someone who has used gas stoves for probably 15 years, I like having my eyebrows... love to hear you shellite stove owners tell us about any "incidents" you may have had (or heard of)... since the dreaded flare up was mentioned
smile.gif
I once had a couple of girls think that they could just turn on the tap and light the burner on the whisperlite like a gas cooker. They did not know about the pre-heating requirement. The stove was sitting on a picnic table at island bend, and when I turned around to see what the shrieking was about, there was a column of flames rising nearly a metre above the heatshield, and flames on the ground beneath where the burning fuel had run off the table.

Simply calmly turning off the knob and moving the stove to another spot was sufficient to avert a disaster.


I was glad they were not cooking in my vestible...
 
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telemark fred

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May 20, 2002
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Simonn said:
...people still use metho trangias in the snow!!! Saw one last year on Mt Bogong!
Plenty of people still use metho stoves in the snow. They are still hard to light, slow, and require a greater volume and mass of fuel for the same job. Those are the reasons i wouldnt use one.

Your efficiency experience with gas is not the norm in my experience. Maybe economies of scale help, cooking for 4 uses only about twice the fuel as cooking for one does...

Gas can be hard to light in very cold enviroments, though its generally ok. It is fine inside a hut for example.
 
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Romfrantic

Hard Yards
Jun 15, 2003
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Simonn said:

...
I use a Trangia with the Primus gas burner instead of the metho candle
...
I will be taking it out again this winter, not near a hut, so we will see how it goes. Maybe in cold weather it will be crap..??
...
Trangias can also use a multi-fuel burner (primus..??) to combine the cold-weather efficiency of the burner with the aesthetic/design efficiency.
...
Simonn, I have(and use) a Trangia set-up, with the option of using gas or multi-fuel (Optimus Nova). I have tried the gas option while snow camping before using the Trangia, and I must say the efficiency was amazing, much better than I expected (and so blissfully quiet and clean) - the Trangia shield made a big difference! . One thing though, we placed a small piece of closed-cell foam under the gas canister so it wouldn't touch the snow (or even better, slightly raised) and that also improved the efficiency. No problems at all.

Whilst I would still use the Optimus Nova (shellite) option while snow camping for more than 2-3 days (way more efficient fuel use in the long term), I still occationally use the gas option for an o'night trip (also because I still have a few half-used gas canisters at home that I'd like to use up eventually!).
 
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Chudak

First Runs
Jun 16, 2000
507
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46
My best MSR experience:

Four or five MSRs happily bubbling away on the table in Schlink Hilton. One goes out. Someone says, 'Hang on, I'll just relight that', opens up the valve, puts the match to the stove...and I reckon you can fill in the rest of the details for yourself.
laugh.gif


No-one was seriously injured, and the hut is still standing, as far as I know.
 
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snowshoe_fiend

Hard Yards
Dec 29, 2000
335
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Melbourne
I have had a situation where water dripped on my MSR Rapidfire (a gas-burning Whisperlite) and entered the burner. When I started it, the water caused a flare-up which nearly set fire to my vestibule. Fortunately the tent fly was wet and so didn't catch easily.
 

mr

Part of the Furniture
Ski Pass
Oct 24, 2003
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FFS dont use your whisperlite in yer tent. I've got one, love it, i've run it on every imaginable fuel in many countries, but i would not use it near my tent. Set up a light fly to cook in if you want shelter in the snow.
 

dusty

First Runs
Nov 19, 2004
64
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Melbourne
The more flammable the fuel the more dangerous the stove most dangerous gas,then metho,then shellite(white fuel-unleaded petrol) safest kero
 

dusty

First Runs
Nov 19, 2004
64
0
0
Melbourne
The more flammable the fuel the more dangerous the stove most dangerous gas,then metho,then shellite(white fuel-unleaded petrol) safest kero
 

skifree

A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe
Moderator
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Jul 13, 1998
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Shrek, if your conversation was any good we would suggest you get a quieter stove...but as it is...just keep the rocket motor burning.

wink.gif
 
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satanas

Addicted
May 26, 2005
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So, are all you guys suggesting MSR stoves because they are the loudest, most macho option or what??? We took two XGKs to India a few years ago, and had no end of trouble with the POSs, and that's without being deafened and poisoned by fumes.

Plenty of people are quite happy to use Trangias ski touring - including a majority in my ski club - because they are quiet, reliable, stable, etc. IME, fuel efficiency isn't that much lower, but user blood pressure is(!), plus it's a lot safer to use the stove in the vestibule, with little risk of having melted nylon fused to one's skin.

By the time the MSR user next door has a few near-explosions and swearing matches, total time taken often isn't much different. Oh yes, Trangias simmer okay too... And, as others have mentioned, you can always use gas/multifuel burners in the Trangia surrounds if going somewhere metho isn't available.

The reason that MSRs are "field maintainable" is because they are so unreliable that they need to be, and I'm saying this based on plenty of personal experience!
 

Unknown

First Runs
Mar 21, 2005
142
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Question...? some people have mentioned using various branded multi fuels in trangias. But no one has mentioned using trangia multi fuels in a trangia. Is there a reason why this is? or is this a very stupid question.
 

telemarx

A Local
Aug 8, 2000
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newcastle, nsw, australia
skifree said:
Shrek, if your conversation was any good we would suggest you get a quieter stove...but as it is...just keep the rocket motor burning.

wink.gif
If you've heard his taste in music you'll understand why he doesn't think his stove is noisy :headbang:
 
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Shrek

Old n' Crusty
Jun 16, 2000
29,356
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be in the mist
you guys will keep. :p
For all those shellite stove users, i cannot stress this enough, check and test run your stove before a trip. If mine has spent some time in a cupboard for any reason I always pull it out and cook a meal on it at home about a week before a trip. That way I know there will no problems and i am familiar with starting procedures.
 

omnioz

First Runs
Jul 9, 2002
1,147
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melbourne
maybe me and my mates have a special selaction channel in our hearing, coz we seem to manage to converse over several stoves roaring- they arn't going all night youknow!

trangias in the snow...
laugh.gif
 
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SWANK-E

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Jul 23, 2003
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Melbourne
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Unknown said:
Question...? some people have mentioned using various branded multi fuels in trangias. But no one has mentioned using trangia multi fuels in a trangia. Is there a reason why this is? or is this a very stupid question.
I have used Trangia in the snow for the last few years, so far no problem, only thing is that i stick the metho thingy inside my jacket for about 15 minutes prior to cooking, that does the trick in lighting it. Ok, I haven't been in any hardcore emergency life-saving situations, but for what we have been doing, it's great.

In regards to why people talking about other brands and not talking about Trangia's own multifuel stove, it is because the Trangia's own is an Optimus, they have bought up Optimus, who apparently were the original company that came up with the system that MSR is currently using.

If you already have a Trangia, using the Trangia multifuel addition is the way to go, otherwise if you are starting from scratch, then MSR is the way to go. MSRs are the most serviceable stoves in the market, and are designed to do so, from a mountaineering perspective where you'd need to have the stove working weeks or months on end, solely surviving on it for cooking at base camp. When an o-ring goes in an MSR, it is worth replacing all parts with your maintenance kit because if the o-ring is on the way out, something else is probably on the way out too. When you replace all the parts, you pretty much have a brand new stove ready to go again.

Happy cooking
 
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satanas

Addicted
May 26, 2005
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I really don't understand why everybody here is so anti-Trangia; maybe you guys carry ghetto-blasters when you go camping too! The *only* reason I'd take a petrol stove instead is if going somewhere the only fuel likely to be available is petrol or <shudder> kero.

We decided to use kero in India as by all accounts it was going to be the only thing available. This is true at places like Namche Bazaar where fuel is carried in by porter but oddly enough, anywhere near roads petrol is available.

At high-ish altitude and cool temps, kero will not light without EXTREME difficulty! The first night camping it took ~15 minutes to get the kero to ignite at all... We ended up carrying a small bottle of petrol as primer, then decided to just bin the kero as petrol is less hassle all round. Things don't get covered in soot and black smoke, or stink as much.

Regarding servicing MSRs: if you replace other bits at the same time as the o-ring, keep all the parts you took out!!!!!! You may need them later on. We had to clean the stoves at least once a day on average due to the dirty fuel. Coleman filter funnels are supposed to be good; filter paper is way too slow.

That's it, I'm going to bed now before I collapse from lack of sleeeeeeeeeeeee............................
 

satanas

Addicted
May 26, 2005
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I really don't understand why everybody here is so anti-Trangia; maybe you guys carry ghetto-blasters when you go camping too! The *only* reason I'd take a petrol stove instead is if going somewhere the only fuel likely to be available is petrol or <shudder> kero.

We decided to use kero in India as by all accounts it was going to be the only thing available. This is true at places like Namche Bazaar where fuel is carried in by porter but oddly enough, anywhere near roads petrol is available.

At high-ish altitude and cool temps, kero will not light without EXTREME difficulty! The first night camping it took ~15 minutes to get the kero to ignite at all... We ended up carrying a small bottle of petrol as primer, then decided to just bin the kero as petrol is less hassle all round. Things don't get covered in soot and black smoke, or stink as much.

Regarding servicing MSRs: if you replace other bits at the same time as the o-ring, keep all the parts you took out!!!!!! You may need them later on. We had to clean the stoves at least once a day on average due to the dirty fuel. Coleman filter funnels are supposed to be good; filter paper is way too slow.

That's it, I'm going to bed now before I collapse from lack of sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 

PK Sawd

Part of the Furniture
Ski Pass
May 7, 2001
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Santanas I used a trangie for around 10 years and have mates who also use them ski touring. They are an excellent stove. But, having now used a Whisperlight for even longer I am more than comfortable to be using that. No flare-ups. No frights. No swearing. Not ever. I always seem to have a cup of tea in my hands quicker than my mates with the Trangia but the tiem saved isn't really that important in a lazy base camp after a long day yo-yoing. It's all good. (I often take a different solvent or paste to prime with as it is less sooty than burning shellite in the primer cup).

A mate of mine uses a wire mat to diffuse the flame of his Whisperlight when cooking risotto or pancakes and it works really well.
 

telemark fred

One of Us
May 20, 2002
5,459
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Newcastle East
I have nothing against trangias either. Like PK sawd i have mates who use them in the snow too. Like him I have never had any dramas with my whisperlite either after many years.

I do like that i can light mine more easily than a trangia and be finished cooking earlier tho ...
 

TonyB

First Runs
Jun 20, 2002
149
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Sydney
I've been using a Trangia for about the past 35 years in the snow ... takes maybe 10 minutes to boil ... not that time is ever an issue. Putting a bit of water in the metho makes it burn very clean but that makes it harder to see the flame.
 

skifree

A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe
Moderator
Ski Pass
Jul 13, 1998
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The MSR Whisperlite is quiet but not as quiet as a MSR.

The MSR XGK and Dragonfly are noisy. Think F18 flying in circles about your camp site.
 

Rolo

One of Us
Jul 28, 1998
3,847
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213
ACT
Coghlan's "Fire Paste" is the primer of choice after numerous experiments with solid and liquid options - cleanest burn, and sticks to the fuel line for better priming in windy weather. Small nalgene container's worth is heaps, and just use the end of a utensil to apply.

R
 

imj

First Runs
Sep 12, 2004
59
0
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60
newcastle
I've used a Trangia fro an embarrasing no. of years with no trouble at all. Recently tried a gas stove cause they're cheap, easy and light, and am converted. After reading about the troubles with cold weather I should be having I wonder if the extra money is worthwhile.
Checking the comparison chart on the MSR website there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference in speed or efficiency when comparing gas to liquid fuel.
confused.gif
 
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mr

Part of the Furniture
Ski Pass
Oct 24, 2003
19,463
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melbourne
A mate of mine uses a wire mat to diffuse the flame of his Whisperlight when cooking risotto or pancakes and it works really well.
Yep, i use one of those camping 'toaster' thingys for this. It also stops pots sliding of the 3 tangs of the whisperlite.

Also boiling rice, just hell-boil it for 5 mins, wrap the pot in something insulative and let it absorb in its own heat. Cook the sauce in meantime. Quick blast at the end and rice is ready to go.
 
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Roger Caffin

Hard Yards
Apr 26, 2000
44
8
58
Sydney
telemark fred said:
I prefer liquid fuel stoves (other than metho) because:
1. No empty cannisters - these add up if its a long trip.
2. I reckon you get better efficiency from the liquid fuels. ie - a greater number of litres boiled per kg of fuel.
1. See the FAQ, and do the sums. Doesn't work that way.

2. Actually, field experience is the reverse. I was using about 60 g of kero per day (for two people), but only about 30 g of gas.
 
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climberman

CloudRide1000 Legend
Ski Pass
Jul 24, 2000
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mr said:

Also boiling rice, just hell-boil it for 5 mins, wrap the pot in something insulative and let it absorb in its own heat. Cook the sauce in meantime. Quick blast at the end and rice is ready to go.
if you have access to a dehydrator, rice (cooked) is excellent dehydration fodder. It reduces to featherweight, and rehydrates really well. Bugger this 'cooking' stuff. I like to just add water
smile.gif
 
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Roger Caffin

Hard Yards
Apr 26, 2000
44
8
58
Sydney
re gas in cold snow conditions:

Yes, an ordinary gas stove WILL have problems once the temp goes sub-zero. Isobutane fuel helps, but still problems.

However, if you want luxury cooking in the snow, try a Coleman Powermax stove - Expert or something similar. It uses a separate gas cartridge at the end of a hose, and works down to ... well, maybe -30 C or lower.

Or, if a trifle bolder, use a SnowPeak GSD 200 with a separate cartridge, and TIP THE CARTRIDGE UPSIDE DOWN.

I think there is a cheap Kovea gas stove which has the cartridge at the end of a hose. Same story.

For the record: I have owned and used one metho stove, about 4 different petrol stoves, 2 - 3 kero stoves, and several gas stoves.

Cheers
 
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