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Chains to Skituibe

Discussion in 'Perisher' started by J_busworth, Aug 18, 2018.

  1. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thanks - yeah I will. Next time I get in the car cause now I'm all confused!

    But def don't have a snow mode in this one. (I always read the manuals to check)
     
  2. skull

    skull One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I was amused at how confident this person was about their 'special' race tyres. I was surely expecting to see a post of their car off the side of the road.
     
  3. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    It must have been on PSR , as i'm not on there. Would have noticed on JNB
     
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  4. Swede

    Swede One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    If you need to use your breaks you’re in the wrong gear and/ or going too fast, simple as that. If you have proper winter driving gear then it’s a slightly different situation.
     
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  5. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    The vast majority of flash SUV and urban ute drivers would be off the road in a down pour if it wasn't for the various electronic traction control systems etc. The mentality of driving exactly as one would in suburbia leaving minimal gaps and braking on the downhill in a similar manner is what puts the AWD/4WD crew off the road. There is simply nil excuse for the vast majority of run offs on snowy roads. People are asleep at the wheel in their urban mobile lounge rooms, distracted and getting upset when people over take them. Dumbed down skills and aggressive attitudes.
     
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  6. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted Ski Pass: Gold

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    The RMS has recommended this for more than 10 years,
    refer "Vehicle Standards Information | No. 57 | 9 June 2009"

    https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/document...vsi-57-driving-in-ice-and-snow-conditions.pdf

    Four-wheel drive vehicles
    GENERAL
    Four-wheel drive vehicles have better road holding performance than two-wheel drive vehicles on slippery surfaces. Although the Regulation acknowledges this by excluding persons driving 4WD vehicles from the requirements to carry and fit snow chains, statistics show that these vehicles are not excluded from crashes. Indeed, data compiled by the RTA shows that 4WD vehicles are regularly overrepresented in crashes that have occurred in the Park in snow or ice conditions: for example, during the 2007 snow season, they were involved in 10 of the 20 crashes (ie 50 per cent) that occurred on the seven designated ‘snow chain days’. There are many reasons for this; one reason is that the 4WD mechanism does not translate to better braking performance. Instead, this is largely a function of the traction generated by the vehicle (ie the wheels) and the road surface.

    To control the risks of driving in snow and ice conditions,
    the RTA recommends that persons driving 4WD vehicles take measures to improve the vehicle’s performance capabilities by either:
    • Fitting winter tyres to the vehicle; or
    • Carrying snow chains or equivalent snow traction devices, and fitting them when recommended by the RTA.

    The Regulation does not define a ‘4WD vehicle’ nor is it defined in any vehicle-related legislation. The term ‘4WD’ originally applied to large vehicles designed to be driven on rough terrain and off-road, typified by the Land Rover. This distinction has become more and more blurred with the advent of sedans with 4WD capability (all-wheel drive or ‘AWD’ vehicles), smaller sports utility vehicles (SUVs), and so-called ‘soft roaders’. The RTA’s position is that the exclusion in the Regulation applies to all vehicles that possess the same enhanced performance capabilities to enable them drive safely on snow or ice affected roads. For these purposes, the RTA classifies ’4WD vehicles’ as those whose transmission can deliver torque to all four of its wheels either simultaneously or as required, including AWD vehicles.
     
  7. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Out of interest, in 2008 the RTA (now RMS) put forward a snow chain discussion paper. The main thrust of this was a proposal to introduce chains for 4WD/AWD, based upon the high proportion of accidents involving these vehicles.

    Submissions were requested from interested parties. I actually put in a submission. The outcome of this discussion paper was not to change the status quo. However, the recommendations quoted above by @snowtyres were introduced.
     
  8. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    how do you mean the recommendations were ‘introduced’?
    that would usually involve incorporating a requirement in the relevant act or regulation
    the document cited in snowtyres’ post is more like helpful information
     
  9. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    They were released, published, introduced, whatever semantics you like. The RTA formulated the document, printed copies which were made publicly available at RTA branches and posted it on their website.
     
  10. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    But nothing changed...

    if they do implement chains for 4WD/AWD then they should make they mandatory to be carried from the shell/alpine way turnoff.

    Will change the whole ski tube ease. will not help the 'use ski tube' cause at all.
     
  11. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    as their original proposal was to require all park users to carry chains and use them when directed, publishing a pamphlet is somewhat less forceful - yes?
     
  12. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’m aware of a recent instance when chains might have made a significant difference - a few weeks ago, the incident involving a police car and a couple of other vehicles
    otherwise, not much and not often
    is that a reason to make a law about it?
     
  13. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Law about what?

    Before Nation parks or Awd/Awd having to carry them?

    I don't think they will make a law to carry them for AWD/4WD in NSW without making it law to carry them for all vehicles to ski tube, which Vail would have words to say about that I suspect...
     
  14. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I meant for 4wd and awd in the KNP, though there also could be a requirement for ‘as directed’
    that could then include the long hill down to skitube [I don’t know its name] which is outside KNP
    I agree about Vail, and it’s been one of the advantages of skitube
    note that i’m arguing against the idea
    my current car is 4wd/awd (Haldex type) and I don’t have chains to fit
     
  15. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Many city people have no idea whether their cars are 2WD, AWD or 4WD. I get lots of them when I'm asking whether they need chains. Especially vehicles which come with different options. Often I have to google their make, model and year to find out for them, given that they don't know. (Yeah, a lot will have AWD or 4X4 written on the tail, but not all). These people are definitely a danger, unless the chain hire place can set them right.
     
  16. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    What's the problem? Compulsory at all times for 3 of the Vic resorts, and Buller if they're staying overnight.
     
  17. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I wont be stopping at any chain bays anytime soon.
     
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  18. IAB

    IAB A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    That's why I moved to NSW.

    Fitted them once heading up to Falls Creek. Never again.
     
  19. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    NSW roads to Perisher and Thredbo are much mellower than Vic
     
  20. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah, I know that. But it's not worth getting knickers in a knot about.
     
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  21. Aractus

    Aractus Hard Yards

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    That does not surprise me at all. On Saturday in the blizzard I drove up with two chains, then in carpark fitted my "spare chains" as well so at end of day I drove back downhill with chains on all 4 wheels. As far as I'm concerned in conditions like that a lot of small AWD vehicles should be using chains, especially as most are automatic transmission too.

    Plus I know also know a kid in his early 20's who when he drove up a couple of years back and was told to engage 4WD didn't because he thought he knew better than the RMS. Shit like that can put everyone's safety at risk. I know a lot of young drivers do the right thing, but there's an awful lot that don't so they should have latitude to instruct drivers like him to fit chains.
     
  22. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Drove up and back on Saturday in my small auto awd, no chains. No problem. Snow tyres. Watched the BMW suv in front of me slide around over Dainers.

    BTW you can use gears in an auto, which is what I did instead of braking.
     
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  23. Aractus

    Aractus Hard Yards

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    Right, but snow tyres are the equivalent of chains. My point was only that there are an awful lot of AWDs that really should be using some form of winter traction device on chain days, whether that's winter tyres or chains.

    Fair enough I guess I'm too used to driving manuals.
     
  24. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    My point is that if I have snow tyres, which I have been told are better than chains, why should I be forced to buy and fit chains?
     
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  25. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    This...
    But it happens at Hotham
     
  26. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I know. Had to carry chains at Buller too.
     
  27. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    I doubt chains would make much difference to AWD\4WD urban chariots at all. Put the brakes on and a chained wheel can lock up and slide and the vast majority of the running off the road adventures in NSW are on the down under brakes. The unchained wheel will still slide.

    I recall one blizzard driving an X5 down from Hotham, after reading the manual about turning electric stuff off we set out and on the way down observing in the wing mirror, a Falcon with chains on locking up behind me. It was a cat and mouse game for a while trying to stay just in front of the following falcon so he didn't run into us but not over drive the conditions.

    Interschools, always an adventure.
     
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  28. FourSquare04

    FourSquare04 A Local

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    Would not be surprised if they turned around and started getting NSW drivers to apply chains to 4WD next season to be honest as it's easy revenue raising. Surprised that they have not done this a long time ago. VIC has had it for as long as I can recall. We (NSW) are THE biggest nanny state going around. While they are at it, they could also reduce the no. of warning signs for red light / speed cameras to make a bit more coin off us..... :mad:
     
  29. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Out of curiosity do you switch your snow tyres over to regular summer tyres during spring and summer?
     
  30. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Nope. I was living in jindy when I got them.
     
  31. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    As long as the tyre has a 3PMSF 3 Peak Mountain snow flake symbol on it no chains should be mandated.
     
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  32. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Its hard enough to get 2wds to pull over and put chains on.
    Imagine operating a seperate chain bay for 4wds . Then a exemption for snow tyres.
    All in a window of 45mins of bad road conditions or so
     
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  33. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Oh ok, my understanding of winter tyres is that they wear much quicker than regular tyres because they use a softer compound. When I lived in Ottawa we had to change them over each season otherwise they would wear out too fast. Maybe the snow tyres here are different.
     
  34. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Nah. same tyres - Blizzaks, Dunlops etc , plus other like Nokians (finnish) They wear quicker .
    If you aren't doing much driving though. Its not that much a deal.
     
  35. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Fair enough. In that case if they’re the same tyres it would be ridiculous to mandate chains, those tyres are like magic, and they don’t f##k up the bitumen like chains would.
     
  36. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I don’t use my car much apart from longer journeys either to the snow or Sydney. Tyres have done 30,000km so far and recently passed rego.
     
  37. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Indeed, also imagine the chaos if every vehicle has to fit chains for a dusting at Tennis and 30km of wet road until Smiggins.
     
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  38. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Falken Wildpeak on my truck have the 3PMFS snow tyre symbol. Brilliant on dry and wet roads, hardly worn after 40000k
     
    #88 dawooduck, Sep 10, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
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  39. scottski

    scottski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    We have two vehicles for snow trips,
    Toyota FJ Cruiser with mud and snow tyres and a Volvo V70 cross country wagon with proper snow tyres.
    The Volvo is by far the better vehicle to drive in the snow.