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Chair down on Gunbarrel, Thredbo?

Discussion in 'Thredbo' started by azzski, Jul 22, 2019.

  1. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    Would the recent death in thredbo make it worse
     
  2. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Why? On what basis could Thredbo be said to be at fault?
     
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  3. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    My response was also...why?

    It’s a completely unrelated matter.
    Guy collected a tree is what has been reported.

    We kind of expect the odd injury or fatality in ski falls, tree or lift tower collisions, tree well or deep powder immersions etc. No one wants them to happen, everyone is doing their best to make them not happen but there is an inherent danger with sliding fast downhill on snow and ice.

    If there was negligence by KT involved, maybe, but I can’t see how in this instance.

    The chair falling off... whole other ball game.

    Also: sad to hear the injured guy has an ongoing issue with his back. Feel for him. Just a bloke out there having a day on the snow. Should never have happened.
     
  4. cornice11

    cornice11 One of Us

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    Didnt thredbo report he only suffered minor bruising?
    Another hole in their story?
    All unconfirmed mind you.
     
  5. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    Im not sure. I was just curious. I didn't know if maybe the risks of snowsport got picked up in the terms and conditions of skiing thredbo
     
  6. Budgiesmuggler

    Budgiesmuggler A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Even if they paid our a few mil to the bloke it wouldn’t materially impact the financials, but replacing gunbarel likely would - I imagine that’s tens of millions.
     
  7. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    or perhaps the guy is litigious, and the bruising quickly escalated to a 6 figure back injury?

    Why speculate?
     
  8. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not so much the Ts&Cs of Thredbo, but the Civil Liability Act (which may or may not apply to riding a chair) has something to say about it.

    But don't let facts distress you. This whole thread is a farrago of unfounded speculation, uninformed pseudo-expertise, premature ejaculation and wild flights of fantasy. Why should anyone stop now?
     
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  9. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    The gondola is 10.7 mil.
    The gondola requires thicker towers than a quad/sixpack, land clearing for a midstation and a carrier shed, snowmaking, a short run cut in, etc, whereas the Gunbarrel doesn't.
    I'd imagine a new Gunbarrel would be ~7-8, maybe 9 mil, depending on whether its a quad or six pack.
     
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  10. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    It’s how we roll.
     
  11. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Prices for recent Australian chairlifts:
    • Bourke Street Express (Buller) . . 6 Chair-Detach . . Doppelmayr . 2019 . 566 metres . . $6+ million
    • Leichhardt (Perisher Valley) . . . . 4 Chair-Fixed . . . Doppelmayr . . 2019 . 490 metres . $4.2 including snowmaking
    • Eagle (Falls Creek) . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Chair-Detach . . Leitner Poma . 2018 . 710 metres . . $9 million
    • Eagle Skylift, (Arthur's Seat) . . . . 8 pas gondola . . Dopplemayr . . .2016 . 1030 metres . $14 million ? *
    • Freedom (Perisher - Guthega) . . 4 Chair-Fixed . . . Doppelmayr . . 2014 . 825 metres . . $4 million
    • Bonza (Buller) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Chair-Fixed . . . Doppelmayr . . 2012 . 533 metres . . $3.1 million
    * There were a few planning protests and legal cases trying to stop the Eagle gondola to the south of Melbourne, so that may have bumped up the price by a million or so.

    So based on this very limited survey it looks like a detachable chairlift is almost double the price of a fixed grip and a gondola is three times the price of a fixed grip chairlift.

    It also looks like the Doppelmayr sales reps are far more effective than the Poma rep and the third major chairlift builder Bartholet has no chance of cracking the Australian market when there is such strong brand loyalty to Dopp.
     
  12. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    It could have something to do with the Doppelmayr compound in Jindabyne.
     
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  13. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not to mention all of the scenic world stuff is Dopp IIRC. New bigger cabins have been fitted to both the skyway and cableway in the ladt couple of years.
     
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  14. linked_recoveries

    linked_recoveries One of Us

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    A farrago? That’s fantastic. I love it.
     
  15. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    The Gunbarrel Express is considerably longer than all those lifts, at about 1.6km long, so that would put up the price. A new Gunbarrel wouldn't cost as much as new merritts, or as much as a new snowgums would, but it'd still cost a fortune
     
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  16. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Skyway and Cableway were rebuilt in 2000 and 2004 and they're aerial trams. So they're a different type of transport and a fair bit earlier. But it does underline the extent of Doppelmayrs stranglehold on the Australian market for aerial ropeways, in other countries the competition for business is much stronger.
     
  17. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep but both have got new bigger cabins in the last 12-18 months. Everything now matches the volume of the railway. (Cableway was april this year from memory... skyway last year)
     
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  18. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    KT certainly has the money for a new Gunbarrel. They make 60mil a year.

    Out of the 100mil put aside for development, only 50mil has currently been taken by DAs. There's a second stage of developments coming that haven't been lodged yet (most likely new snowgums, mtb trails, etc) which would likely take up the remaining 50mil. Whether KT will:
    A. fork out the extra money and add Gunbarrel to the second stage of developments
    B. replace one if their developments with the new Gunbarrel or
    C. just simply put it off as long as possible
    Remains to be seen
     
  19. jonathanc

    jonathanc One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Got a link to that figure in an annual report?
     
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  20. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

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  21. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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  22. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    this is all I have. It was posted by someone else in the Development thread
     

    Attached Files:

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  23. jonathanc

    jonathanc One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Revenue isn't profit...
     
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  24. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    But EBITDA* is gross profit and Thredbo made $29 million last year, which leaves plenty of money to build a new lift every year if they want to, as well as paying their other costs and giving high dividends to shareholders. The place is a cash cow.

    * EBITDA = Earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortization
     
  25. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator

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  26. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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  27. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    I didn't say profit, I said how much money they make. Either way if you go off profit or off revenue, its still a crap ton of money, definitely enough for new development.

    The Friday flat parking development is definitely needed after what happened today
     
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  28. jonathanc

    jonathanc One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    An alternative option is to raise prices at perisher and thredbo to reduce the impact on the national park, halt all investment and then buy shares in EVENT Hospitality and Entertainment with a view to selling in ~5-10 years LOL

    EBITDA is not gross profit haha.

    What does their current capital budget look like? What's the impact on cash reserves? What's their ideal level of working capital? What investments should they prioritise for best returns to shareholders and why?
     
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  29. linked_recoveries

    linked_recoveries One of Us

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    Any way you look at the numbers it's a relief to finally see some major capital investment in the pipeline. It's been too long.
     
  30. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Don't be silly. They should drop everything and follow the headless chookery on a ski forum.
     
  31. jonathanc

    jonathanc One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Your post from yesterday evening cracked me up, hence my questions LOL
     
  32. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    It’s the best kind of chookery!!
     
  33. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Is this thread still a thing!
    Was 42 the answer?
    It always is......
     
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  34. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    in Switzerland they somehow manage to cope with quite a high annual death toll from skiing, mountaineering, river rafting etc [I’ve seen some figures in the past but searching is not finding any]
    I gather they just think it’s part of living with a harsh natural environment
     
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  35. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Like drowning in Australia.
     
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  36. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’d think that is pretty reasonable assumption.

    Not sure my prior post says otherwise.
     
  37. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    not arguing, waving
     
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  38. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ahhh
    Righto :thumbs:
     
  39. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    yes but Switzerland doesnt have the Australian government administering!
     
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  40. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    KNP is NSW govt, but there does seem to be a higher level of risk aversion here
     
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  41. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    And prseumably NSw standards must at minimum meet Federal standards?

    And when I said Australian, I was talking collectively. We are all nannied
     
  42. NewTurns

    NewTurns One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Possibly a UniMelb alumnus
     
  43. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    in some ways but not others
    just different
     
  44. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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  45. linked_recoveries

    linked_recoveries One of Us

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    Should be easy enough to stop any drift toward a conspiracy theory. Just publish a couple of photos of the cut cable. Then again, if the whole thing has become a criminal investigation I imagine it's possible that would constitute a breach of some kind of rule. These things get complicated.
     
  46. Nicko4334

    Nicko4334 Hard Yards

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    I'm just here hoping for more examples of the use of the word of the week: "farrago"

    PS.... 903 to go...Will we hit 2000 before KT says anything of substance?
     
  47. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    Probably
     
  48. cornice11

    cornice11 One of Us

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    They won't say anything more of substance. I am reliably informed that SafeWork NSW investigations are ongoing, contrary to Thredbo's most recent statement.
     
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  49. Alleve

    Alleve Addicted

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    i'd be pretty concerned if it was case closed that quickly. good to hear the investigation is still on
     
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  50. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us

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    I expect they will quietly report back the day after the season closes with some recommended actions that can be performed in downtime before the mtb season starts up.