Admin Notice Changes to Culture Vulture, Uncertainty Principle & Bear Pit

Richard

Maintenance Dept
Administrator
Mar 14, 1995
15,523
22,215
813
Clarence Town
Culture Vulture, Uncertainty Principle & Bear Pit have been annexed from the Après category into a newly created category called Pavilion.


Because;

1) I don't like hierarchy structures which are two nodes deep because navigation becomes buried (i.e. Uncertainty Principle & Bear Pit previously being 'sub-topics' of Culture Vulture were two nodes deep). But this is just a minor UX consideration, not a primary driver, see next;

2) Pavilion is going to become subscription only commencing July 1, 2020. Only Gold & Silver subscribers will have permission to participate in threads within Pavilion.

3) Commencing immediately, none of the threads within the category of Pavilion will be visible in Active Topics to members with less than 50 posts. (This has been the case already for Bear Pit for some time)

4) Commencing July 1, the inclusion of Pavilion threads in Active Topics will become a separate $3.50 per annum upgrade feature. This will not be an automatic subscription and upon expiry, will need to be repurchased for another year.
Edit 6 July: Turns out this was not possible to configure based on member group - idea scrapped until practical solution is found.


5) During June, the rules of engagement and moderation for the entire forums (not just Pavilion threads) will be re-examined and re-drafted as an open discussion. Clear Boundaries and Codes of Conduct for each category will be be developed and everyone may participate and contribute to the drafting process.



From July 1 the following changes will take place;

- Participation in any thread in any topic within the Pavilion category will be by Gold or Silver subscription only.
- Active Topics will no longer display threads from Pavilion topics for any member unless they choose to purchase the feature for $3.50 per annum.
- New rules of engagement and moderation will take effect.



WHY, WHY, WHY?

Firstly
, the Burden of Moderation is overwhelmingly generated by threads from Culture Vulture, Uncertainty Principle and The Bear Pit. It seems only appropriate that those who consume the bulk of moderation resource should pay for the privilege. Also, a quick straw count revealed that over 90% of posts in these topics are already subscription based members, so for most of you there will be no change to access.

The handful of new subscribers this change may generate will in effect be kindly contributing to the beer budget at the next community gathering where the balance sheet of ideological differences are reconciled through the magic of alcohol fueled camaraderie.

Secondly, it's been almost twenty years since the Moderators Guidelines were first drafted and with both the changes to online norms and the drift of community expectations it's time to revisit those guidelines and re-examine them with an open process.

Thirdly, these changes are just the next iteration of a long slow migration of Ski.com.au from an advertising supported concern to a subscription based concern. Those who have followed my various posts on the matter will know that it is my firm belief that there is no future for ad-supported online content-based services (such as this site has been since 1995) that can not achieve global-level scale. Ski.com.au must become primarily a Subscription funded operation and so it is with that in mind that these changes to Culture Vulture, Uncertainty Principle & The Bear Pit are presented.


Thoughts, comments, random abuse and the usual declarations that these forums will be destroyed etc... are all welcome below.
 
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass

Annabuzzy

That's 'ma Lord Buzzy to you
Ski Pass
Jul 31, 2012
23,887
22,576
1,063
Sydney
I don't usually notice where a thread lives, just starting at Active Topics most of the time
Same.

if it’s not in the top 20 or so active topics I won’t notice it. When bored though I may check out the equipment, review, gear swap and snow talk forums to see if something interesting occurred that I missed.
 

Byron

Addicted
Mar 23, 2014
126
120
113
What is the reason behind charging $3.50 for "Pavilion" threads to appear in "Active Topics"? It's not explained in your three dot points (that I saw) and seems like an arbitrary change that will kill that section of the forum.
 

TOFF

Triple premiership Pants man
Ski Pass
Aug 10, 2004
52,133
32,260
1,515
Wuhan
Secondly, it's been almost twenty years since the Moderators Guidelines were first drafted and with both the changes to online norms and the drift of community expectations it's time to revisit those guidelines and re-examine them with an open process.

This will be exciting to watch. :)
 

Richard

Maintenance Dept
Administrator
Mar 14, 1995
15,523
22,215
813
Clarence Town
What is the reason behind charging $3.50 for "Pavilion" threads to appear in "Active Topics"? It's not explained in your three dot points (that I saw) and seems like an arbitrary change that will kill that section of the forum.

Technically, to make viewing of Pavilion threads in Active Topics something members can 'opt-in' to, I have to make it a 'User Group' within the software settings - and the only way folk can put themselves into a 'user group' voluntarily is to 'upgrade' -- at which point I may as well take $3.50 (for the beer fund) because if you really want to see threads from the Pavilion in your Active Topics then your propensity to consume is likely to be greater than $3.50 (1c per day).

It wont kill that section of the forum, it's not an additional fee to access those topics, it's a fee for the convenience of having those threads visible in Active Topics.

The real value is that Active Topics won't be polluted with the noise of Pavilion topics for the majority of members (both subscription members or free members) - this is a UX win for me. NOT having pavilion topics in Active Topics makes the place better for the majority. Those that want the crap in their feed - can pay $3.50, 1c a day.. shop around, you can't beat that price!
 

Schnaxxy Schnaxxlburger

but a dream within a dream
Ski Pass
Jun 23, 2001
43,509
29,471
1,563
macdonaltown
Technically, to make viewing of Active Topics something members can 'opt-in' to, I have to make it a 'User Group' within the software settings - and the only way folk can put themselves into a 'user group' voluntarily is to 'upgrade' -- at which point I may as well take $3.50 because if you really want to see threads from the Pavilion in your Active Topics then your propensity to consume is likely to be greater than $3:50 (1c per day).

It wont kill that section of the forum, it's not an additional fee to access the forum, it's a fee for the convenience of having those threads visible in Active Topics.

The real value is that Active Topics won't be polluted with the noise of Pavilion topics for the majority of members (both subscription members or free members) - this is a UX win for me. NOT having pavilion topics in Active Topics makes the place better for the majority. Those that want the crap in their feed - can pay. $3.50, 1c a day.. shop around, you can't beat that price!
$3.50 seems like a very small amount of money
the whole sub is also a fairly paltry sum - why not kick it up to $50?
 

currawong

Old but not so Crusty
Ski Pass
Sep 17, 2003
42,483
34,684
1,563
Kiewa Valley
just clarifying - is the $3.50pa on top of gold/silver or for strange types who want to visit the pavilion without having one of those subscriptions? (assuming the latter)

I'm surprised that CV itself comes under the same regime. I thought that it was for interesting but not necessarily impassioned discussions. maybe not as much as it used to be, sadly
 

Undies

Rockin the lock in
Ski Pass
May 15, 2002
21,854
17,251
1,063
Top drawer
$3.50 seems like a very small amount of money
the whole sub is also a fairly paltry sum - why not kick it up to $50?

I'd certainly pay more. Happy to shout a few rounds at the next drinks as a substitute.

The amount I save on therapists' bills by unloading my shit in here is worth hundreds. Of course, other forum members then need to go and unload that shit somewhere, but that brings us back to the drinks night and me shouting rounds....
 

Richard

Maintenance Dept
Administrator
Mar 14, 1995
15,523
22,215
813
Clarence Town
just clarifying - is the $3.50pa on top of gold/silver or for strange types who want to visit the pavilion without having one of those subscriptions? (assuming the latter)

I'm surprised that CV itself comes under the same regime. I thought that it was for interesting but not necessarily impassioned discussions. maybe not as much as it used to be, sadly

To clarify

NO FEE to View & Read Pavilion (but Pavilion topics will not be visible at all until 50 posts has been reached)
$11 or $33 to POST & participate (ie Gold or Silver Pass)
$3.50 to view Pavilion threads in Active Topics (optional)

Note: It will be possible to purchase the $3.50 Pavilion Active Topics feature as a non-subscription member just for the giggles - yet still not have permission to participate.
 

Richard

Maintenance Dept
Administrator
Mar 14, 1995
15,523
22,215
813
Clarence Town
I'd certainly pay more. Happy to shout a few rounds at the next drinks as a substitute.

The amount I save on therapists' bills by unloading my shit in here is worth hundreds. Of course, other forum members then need to go and unload that shit somewhere, but that brings us back to the drinks night and me shouting rounds....

Prices will go up when we hit 1000 subs (the economic tipping point) - everyone on subscription at that point will be grandfathered at $33 for as long as they maintain their automatic subscription. New and lapsed will subscribe at the next price point (prob around $40). That's the current thinking. You have been warned. Currently we are at around 430 subscribers so no price increase anytime soon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: piolet

currawong

Old but not so Crusty
Ski Pass
Sep 17, 2003
42,483
34,684
1,563
Kiewa Valley
To clarify

NO FEE to View & Read Pavilion (but Pavilion topics will not be visible at all until 50 posts has been reached)
$11 or $33 to POST & participate (ie Gold or Silver Pass)
$3.50 to view Pavilion threads in Active Topics (optional)

Note: It will be possible to purchase the $3.50 Pavilion Active Topics feature as a non-subscription member just for the giggles - yet still not have permission to participate.

it's only $3.50 so I shouldn't care. but I am a bit peeved. it seems like punishment for something i didn't do. I think the number of times my posts have been moderated is miniscule. I know it's happened at least once but i'd be surprised if it's more than 5. maybe more when i've quoted things others have posted. or maybe i have selective amnesia

i suppose i should just see it as an administrative fee like all the others that service providers decide to impose with no value judgements implied
 

TOFF

Triple premiership Pants man
Ski Pass
Aug 10, 2004
52,133
32,260
1,515
Wuhan
it's only $3.50 so I shouldn't care. but I am a bit peeved. it seems like punishment for something i didn't do. I think the number of times my posts have been moderated is miniscule. I know it's happened at least once but i'd be surprised if it's more than 5. maybe more when i've quoted things others have posted. or maybe i have selective amnesia

i suppose i should just see it as an administrative fee like all the others that service providers decide to impose with no value judgements implied
The costs are equalised across the entire forums. If we start working on a user pay system things will get very messy but maybe even a lot of fun.
To post something controversial costs $10 (this would cost me a fortune)
To report a post costs $25 (this would cost others a fortune)
 

Richard

Maintenance Dept
Administrator
Mar 14, 1995
15,523
22,215
813
Clarence Town
i suppose i should just see it as an administrative fee like all the others that service providers decide to impose with no value judgements implied

Except for the bit where it contributes to the viability of the joint - it's not like this forum is NAB, WBC, CBA or ANZ squeezing out every conceivable touch point with a fee.

Currently, the setup which you prefer means that the majority who would prefer not to have the noise of CV, UP & BP threads in their active topics feed get it regardless. There are literally thousands and thousands of members who are here only for the weather, backcountry and travel forums and they don't care for the shit threads at all. These folk are the silent majority.

So, I have two choices, make it opt in or opt out. I'm making it opt-in because that's a minority requirement and I'm making it $3.50 because I can and because it maps with a subscription/value-add strategy to the 'product'
 

currawong

Old but not so Crusty
Ski Pass
Sep 17, 2003
42,483
34,684
1,563
Kiewa Valley
Except for the bit where it contributes to the viability of the joint - it's not like this forum is NAB, WBC, CBA or ANZ squeezing out every conceivable touch point with a fee.

Currently, the setup which you prefer means that the majority who would prefer not to have the noise of CV, UP & BP threads in their active topics feed get it regardless. There are literally thousands and thousands of members who are here only for the weather, backcountry and travel forums and they don't care for the shit threads at all. These folk are the silent majority.

So, I have two choices, make it opt in or opt out. I'm making it opt-in because that's a minority requirement and I'm making it $3.50 because I can and because it maps with a subscription/value-add strategy to the 'product'
so maybe you need another subscription area where you put all the football threads that interfere with my enjoyment ;)
 

Schnaxxy Schnaxxlburger

but a dream within a dream
Ski Pass
Jun 23, 2001
43,509
29,471
1,563
macdonaltown
Because it's not worth that.

I currently subscribe to NYT for $5 per month. That's a real publication. This joint aint worth $5 per month.

Also... Economically and for the health of the dynamic, I've better off with 1000 subs @ $33 than 500 @ $50
this forum is a more specialised audience, and we're paying to participate as well
the NYT is a mass circulation newpaper - interesting that it's significantly cheaper than the SMH (I have subs for both)
the New Yorker is also extremely good value
 
Last edited:

cold wombat

Twitter Contributer
Moderator
Jun 4, 2008
59,740
42,390
2,115
13
Perth
You might wink now, but as a gold/silver subscriber, constructing a personal bundle of exactly what you want to view is a goal. Just not technically viable at the moment.
Nice. I've always wanted a "My Forums" view. Even better if it's a "My forums unread*".


* I know, I get no traction on this. Latest changes make this crystal clear! ;)
 

Richard

Maintenance Dept
Administrator
Mar 14, 1995
15,523
22,215
813
Clarence Town
this forum is a more speciflaised audience, and we're paying to participate as well
the NYT is a mass circulation newpaper - interesting that it's significantly cheaper than the SMH (I have subs for both)
the New Yorker is also extremely good value

One year deal that was going back in April for AU subscribers. Might still be available.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chaeron

dawooduck

relaxed and comfortable
Ski Pass
Oct 26, 2002
72,074
63,963
1,525
Mountains
If I may, perhaps, and I mean this in very good faith, given the changes to access on a user cost base which by its very nature of financial outlay requires a deliberate decision, would it be at all possible to remove the ignore functionality as an inclusion in the $3.50 premium and for a discount of $0.50 remove the ability to report posts from the areas covered by the $3.50 premium ?

As a random aside .... TGIF
 

cold wombat

Twitter Contributer
Moderator
Jun 4, 2008
59,740
42,390
2,115
13
Perth
If I may, perhaps, and I mean this in very good faith, given the changes to access on a user cost base which by its very nature of financial outlay requires a deliberate decision, would it be at all possible to remove the ignore functionality as an inclusion in the $3.50 premium and for a discount of $0.50 remove the ability to report posts from the areas covered by the $3.50 premium ?

As a random aside .... TGIF
If I pay more I should still be able to report you. Maybe a bidding war for rights could underpin the forum financials. Whoever has the most money to throw at the problem gets the most say. Bit like society at large.
 

D-eye

Photographer and skier
Moderator
Ski Pass
Jan 21, 2001
36,033
6,481
1,025
Canberra
deyephotography.com
If I may, perhaps, and I mean this in very good faith, given the changes to access on a user cost base which by its very nature of financial outlay requires a deliberate decision, would it be at all possible to remove the ignore functionality as an inclusion in the $3.50 premium and for a discount of $0.50 remove the ability to report posts from the areas covered by the $3.50 premium ?

As a random aside .... TGIF
I doubt the software would allow that level of granularity with ignore.
 

Vermillion

Pool Room
Ski Pass
Nov 13, 2005
74,208
29,808
1,563
121
Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
I will happily pay $3.50 extra for 100% entertainment .... in fact if the posters who regularly give me that joy can’t afford it or choose not to pay I will stump up the funds.
Bring it on baby I say bring it on !

Maybe to get yourself into the club someone else needs to pay your $3.50 IE you cant get yourself in, someone else needs to pay to get you in, and vice versa. Then you'll find out who your friends are.
 
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass

Log in

or Log in using
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass