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Charlotte Pass Lease Renewal thread

Discussion in 'Charlotte Pass' started by toxicfox, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. Sago

    Sago Hard Yards

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    Was good Bob when we had it!!!
    No more bowls to fight over now.
     
  2. Sago

    Sago Hard Yards

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    BTW,
    I am only joking!
     
  3. Tree Breaker Bob

    Tree Breaker Bob Addicted

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    So it does depend on who owns the infrastructure. If Kevin paid for and does then the state steals it off him to have an open tender process (otherwise it just wouldn't work) how is that right. If the state owns it then an open tender arrangement could be considered, but again that's being very back stabbing in the process of openness to their original agreement

    We can only annoy our state members and wait

    Bob
     
  4. Nozawaman

    Nozawaman A Local

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  5. Tree Breaker Bob

    Tree Breaker Bob Addicted

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    Sago

    Hopefully the bowls will be good from the 16 th on and not for the last time

    Bob
     
    Sago likes this.
  6. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    The bowls will still be there, even if turns have to be earned. My primary concern is losing my cushy staging post for backcountry forays......... my lodge membership cost bugga all.
     
    Sago likes this.
  7. toxicfox

    toxicfox Hard Yards

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    Geez, your getting slow in your old age NozMan. It was in the original post. Thanks for reminding people though.

    I feel that Climberman is playing devils advocate too much. A bit of light trolling. I can see his point of view from what he is saying but can he see ours ? If the Parks want to run an Open Tender then why not create a new lease area within KNP ? The value of CPV (much like every Golf Course in NSW on Crown Land) is in the good will and improvements. Look at LaPerouse v LEC. The economic rationalists know the price of everything and the value of nothing, and it's time for them to depart.
     
  8. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Of course I can see 'yours'. I'm completely on the side of keeping CPV up, running and viable 100 years or more into the future. I'm just kind of surprised that in the current political climate anyone is
    a) surprised and
    b) arguing vehemently against,
    openness in the leasing of public lands for profit.

    Not trolling at all.

    OEH won't be looking to flock anyone over nor to run it themselves and the climate has well and truly moved against 'anti-people' stuff given the role of the resorts in regional tourism and employment. If it were me I'd be wary of trying to box the very bureaucrats and pollies you need into a corner. A retreat to slow and rigorous adherence to policy, public comment, display and investigation could simply extend timeframes…

    Sheezuz, not sure I'd say that out loud on the interdernet. Be careful what you wish for!
     
  9. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    CPV needs good lawyers. If what has been published is correct there is more than a reasonable case for lease renewal on their terms with costs for being dicked around. I have been involved in cases that went ahead and were won with way less to go, I was on the losing side.
     
  10. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    I suspect that Kevin is going the publicity route to avoid lawyers. Lawyers are always a fallback option.
     
  11. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Govt Dept Vs Lawyers = result

    Govt Dept Vs Public opnion = sorry what were we talking about?
     
  12. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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  13. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    Really just an extension under existing terms and conditions. Still no certainty for CPV as head lessee or the lodges which will allow them to reinvest in the place.
     
    Sago likes this.
  14. jrr

    jrr Hard Yards

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    Well that's what our Club President said was likely, so I'll remain unstressed ;-)
     
  15. toxicfox

    toxicfox Hard Yards

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    The original offer of extension contained a number of amendments. One related to ownership of the infrastructure and buildings. It looks like some sense has prevailed and this time the extension is along the same lines of the existing lease. This has only happened in the past week. A few people from CPV and the Lodges have been putting in alot of work to get to this point.

    I hope it doesn't take the full 3 yrs to extend the Lease proper. Maybe they can use the Perisher Lease renewals as a template and get it done in the next month.
     
  16. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I am a bit pissed about the follow up call from change.org...

    Anyone else get this?

    Made me fell like shit to hang up on them but I am truly not interested in the secondary cause we seemed to have signed up for.
     
  17. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    Just unsubscribe.
     
  18. SkiMountaineer

    SkiMountaineer One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I didn't get a follow up call. What was the secondary cause?
     
  19. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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  20. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    And if you didn't know...... the manager of CP when the shyte hit the fan was Jamie (maintenance manager promoted out of his league), the same unhelpful tool now running the service station at Thredbo.

    Things have been much better over the past couple of seasons.
     
  21. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    3 years and there will have been a change of Guvment and probably a generational change in NPWS.

    So sitaution back to normal.

    Back to the bar for a couple of years everyone, nothing to see here.
     
  22. sourmash

    sourmash One of Us

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    I received an invitation to campaign against Jetstar online booking fees. It's irrelevant to me personally, as I have a Jetstar Mastercard and don'y pay fees when I book.
     
  23. blackice

    blackice One of Us

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    There was a recent article in a mainstream ausie online newspaper regarding change.org's business model, I don't have a link and don't recall the exact details but it is not a 'not for profit' organisation, it's into the business of 'causes'...

    I signed up to one of their campaigns several years ago and recently un-subscribed from their mailing list due to frustration with the volume of spam.
     
    #73 blackice, Aug 22, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
  24. sourmash

    sourmash One of Us

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  25. system32

    system32 First Runs

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    Skiers i dont mind but boarders :p
     
  26. SkiMountaineer

    SkiMountaineer One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I heard a rumour Vail Resorts has got the lease
     
  27. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Lease doesn't end until October, it would be very un government to have the lease awarded already.
     
  28. Sean Sunley

    Sean Sunley Addicted

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  29. toxicfox

    toxicfox Hard Yards

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    I guess it's done and dusted then. ;) There was a story the parks offered up CPV to Vail at the time of the Perisher acquisition but it was declined and they had no interest in running CPV.

    Does anyone know how many parties lodged an EOI ? and how many were invited to tender for the lease ? Does commercial in confidence over rule open and transparent process.
     
    #79 toxicfox, Jun 2, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
    snowgum likes this.
  30. kiter

    kiter One of Us

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    Any news on the head lease. Oct for the decision is fast running out . Waiting with bated breath
     
  31. Tree Breaker Bob

    Tree Breaker Bob Addicted

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    Obviously CP is also waiting as they have not announced season passes yet for '18, so is our lodge to see what to do about the fire audit works we have planned for this summer

    Don't wait, write to your local state member to be forwarded on the the relevant minister how unhappy you are that this simple process has taken years and has cost far to much money. If you live in a marginal seat like I do then it can have some effect. Look at the by-elections and the swing to the farmers, shooters and fishers party

    It's hardly been an open process as they have always had someone submit a tender, they, whoever "they" are, just don't like the tenderer and just reopen the whole process again and again until "they" get what "they " want without regard for cost and disruption of the effected parties, CPV, lodges and anyone else who provides a service to Charlotte Pass

    It is time for the decision to be made and if Kevin doesn't get it and sues "they" will only get what "they" deserve.

    Interestingly I reread a lot of the thread and it really is why people get annoyed at the public service when they cannot even do simple things

    Bob
     
  32. SkiMountaineer

    SkiMountaineer One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Extension till April 2018 until they finalise everything. Doesn't help anyone.
     
  33. Tree Breaker Bob

    Tree Breaker Bob Addicted

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    This is official?, can you confirm the authenticity of this as I will absolutely hammer my state member who will forward it on to the minister

    Hopefully we can also get an extension on the fire upgrades so we don't spend the money in vain lol

    Don't "they" realise the pain being inflicted on taxpayers

    Bob
     
  34. toxicfox

    toxicfox Hard Yards

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    I saw that, and agree, not much time to prepare for Season 2018 if you don't know what is happening or what future costs will be. By April most lodges have completed maintenance and stocked for the coming season.

    The OEH needs time to complete surveys of head lease area and sub-leases ? They've been in lease renewal discussions for 10 years that I can remember, but never undertook a survey?

    Head Lease negotiations also went from Open Tender back to Direct Negotiation this year as well. Probably only had the one EOI. Lodges will just have to wait for the Head Leasee to tell them what's going to happen in the future.

    Did anyone actually think that this would be finalised in October this year ?
     
  35. SkiMountaineer

    SkiMountaineer One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes, it is official. Lease will be Torrens Title. Need to survey, but there is a small problem of snow on the ground. Fire upgrades must progress irrespective. Secret is to do bare minimum to be in compliance.
     
  36. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    What do you mean by the lease will be Torrens Title?
     
  37. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I thought Torrens Title was only an South Aust thing.

    Just did a bit of goggling & it is very significant if the lease is revised to Torrens Title.

    We need a NSW legal land stuff type lawyer person to give us the low down.
     
  38. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    It's quite puzzling - so puzzling that I think there are some wires crossed.

    I can see no logical reason why they would excise a chunk of national park, convert it to Torrens (or separate Torrens lots for various lodges etc) and lease it out. Separate leases of bits of the park for individual footprints for lodges etc is how Perisher works and how, I assume, current leases in Charlottes work so surveys are already done. Unless there is some dastardly plan to flog off the freehold down the track.
     
  39. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    So my thinking was not so crazy after all. Hang on this is a legs post I'm reading, maybe I'm crazier than i thought?

    Seriously legs, i think you are right it does not make sense.

    Does it not take a referendum & 3 changes of guvment to excise land out of a National Park in NSW???
     
  40. SkiMountaineer

    SkiMountaineer One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    From NPWS:

    Dear Charlotte Pass sub-lessee
    Below is a status update on the Charlotte Pass Management Review and Head lease:

    - The parties to a head lease for Charlotte Pass Village have arrived at agreed terms that are now subject to final government approval.

    - OEH is proposing an extension to the current head lease, the Kosciuszko Alpine Club lease and all sub-leases for 6 months to finalise arrangements and a survey for the head lease area and sub-leases. Surveys are required because the Village has been converted to Torrens title.

    - The formal documentation to enable extensions will be forwarded in the near future once final government approval has occurred.

    Regards
    Resort Consultation
     
  41. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just because they are doing it doesn't mean it makes sense.
     
  42. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ok that is a bit weird. I wonder if they are proposing something a bit like community title. This is kind of like strata title but for a group of blocks of land. Some are gated estates some are not. There is a governing body/neighbourhood association that owns (or leases in this case) all the common property but each individual lot is actually torrens title.
     
  43. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Wow, just wow. Far out brussell sprout wow.
     
  44. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Maybe, but I assume that NPWS will be the landlord, not the lodges etc. Normally the owner is the person with management rights, not the tenant.

    Weird.
     
  45. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I meant that their may be head lease holder who acted like the neighbourhood association. So the lodges are torrens title but there is leasholder who is another level of authority that the lodge owners need to deal with.
     
  46. SkiMountaineer

    SkiMountaineer One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    ^that
     
  47. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Can you have property as Torrens Title but leasehold, in NSW.
    If they need to excise it from the park that requires an amendment to the NPWS Act via parliament. Can't see them wanting to go down that road in a hurry.
     
  48. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm not sure that I understand what you mean. It sounds as though you are describing a Thredbo style head lease/sub-lease system, which does not require Torrens title.
     
  49. Tree Breaker Bob

    Tree Breaker Bob Addicted

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    So is the Kosi Nat Park Crown land or a Torrens Title already

    Certainly the lease for Charlotte Pass being over 100 years old would be what Old System or any number of other things so going to Torrens Title with Govt or NPWS owning it and leasing it would make sense, however some indigenous people might claim ownership in the process lol

    There is no way the Torrens Title land could be purchased by an outsider, so why the hold up on negotiations, what is expected to change with a survey. Maybe NPWS are going to claw back some land as I believe the head lease goes right up stillwell as well as other areas

    Bob
     
  50. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    It's Crown land.