Cooks Endeavour Journal

Discussion in 'Surf & Marine' started by nfip, Apr 23, 2020.

  1. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you had any idea what was being said, but none of Cook's party had any idea of what was being said.

    True being run at with a spear is very confronting. And the shot's being fired can be considered as not a surprising outcome.

    But what were they expecting? Red carpet?
     
  2. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think having Tupaia on board they were expecting something a bit different to what actually occured.
    Especially considering what had happened in NZ....
     
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  3. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Everyone with whom they came into contact before Australia were of Polynesian origin and spoke languages with a common root. A bit like European Romance languages. Comprehension was possible if nuance was not. Tupaia could make a fist of communication. In Australia it didn't work.
     
  4. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    But we are sort of back where the perceived events can be seen very differently depending whose eyes you are seeing them through.
     
  5. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    That is always the case.

    But re-considering the meaning of the words uttered to Cook is important because it changes the consideration and perception of the subsequent behaviour of the first people Cook met and later would come in contact with the First Fleet.

    Tupaia who @Legs Akimbo was present and had previously been able to enable some communications with various native peoples had absolutely no hope of providing communication in Australia. This failure effected him deeply and was possibly a part of his subsequent declining health and depression. he went from being King of his Pacific domain to being useless overnight.
     
    #105 skifree, Apr 30, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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  6. Ultrasteez

    Ultrasteez A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    The truth will be in the middle somewhere. Excuse me for not always taking the emotionally charged memories handed over 30 times as gospel. The temptation for some of these stories to be embellished to suit ones agenda cannot be ignored.
     
  7. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    You have just described history. I sometimes define history as the lies we tell to justify present circumstances. There is no such thing as objective, canonical history.
     
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  8. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    No, that is where you are wrong. The truth isn't in the middle somewhere. The truth is the truth and may differ from differing perspectives. Just because something doesn't align with your perspective does not mean the truth must be elsewhere. The world doesn't work that way.
     
  9. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    This - from everyones perspective. So we are back where Ultrasteeze's point back up the thread that we seem to have entered an era of placing more importance on the indegenous side over all other. As if it is infalible but all other accounts are.
     
  10. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Grandfather doesn't necessarily literally mean Grandfather.
     
  11. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Another way of looking at it is applying some balance to a formerly overwhelming Eurocentric bias.
     
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  12. nfip

    nfip Cold n' Rusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    doesn't the legalese rule of thumb go something like...
    there's two sides to every story and then there is the truth !
     
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  13. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I cannot for the life of me see where this has been done. Recognising other perspectives on an issue is a hell of a long way from considering them infallible or unquestionable. In fact, doing so says nothing about which is "right" or "wrong". Rather, it is about deliberately avoiding such "moral judgements" altogether in favour of understanding someone else's point of view without having to abandon your own. When you are willing to stop short of such judgement, you can appreciate multiple contradictory and mutually exclusive positions while still searching for an objective assessment of "facts".
     
  14. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    I used to say that my clients told me 25% of the truth. The other side's lawyer was told a different 25% of the truth and there was 50% that the lawyers never knew.
     
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  15. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Perspective and empathy? Some people just don't get and will never get what aborigines are saying as they cannot perceive of a view any other than their own. I still don't like the High Court's decision in Mabo; IMO it was the parliament's responsibility to overturn terra nullis. However, I did have a Road to Damascus moment twenty or more years ago that lead me to finally understand that land rights was not about ownership in the British legal sense.
     
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  16. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  17. Xwing

    Xwing One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Cook was a knob out to further the burgeoning British Empire of the times and was seen for who he was hence the Hawaiians killed him. It is British centric history telling overlooking the fact others were already here and others traveled here long before Cook was sent to claim this place for the crown. History is told by the victors and did we get a load of propaganda as Australian history during high school in the 80s. It was such a biased one sided affair of how British explorers conquered this land whilst Aboriginals were killed and chained together at the neck...yet this was never mentioned in those school history lessons as the queen gazed down upon us from the pictures adorning nearly every class room and we learned for the good of the crown.
     
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  18. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    No comment on your post, but glad to see you are still with us. Hang in there.
     
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  19. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    I doubt that he thought or knew of the implications but Cook claimed the land, he did not make a treaty with the inhabitants. That is the beginning of terra nullius, and all that flowed from it.
     
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  20. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Cook's death in the Hawaii was much more complex than that and had as much to do with local politics and poor local decisions by Cook than any perceived threat of pommy global domination by the Hawaiians.

    Yes I agree Cook knew he was claiming lands for the Empire. Typical of his era tho he did so thinking the Empire would bring benefit to savage lands. He was not intrinsically bad, tho was he was pretty close to insane by the time of his last voyage, but a product of his time.

    See Captain James Cook, Richard Hough
     
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  21. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  22. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  23. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    And profit from it as well.
     
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  24. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Actually loved what she is doing...... have traipsed around a few iconic museums and galleries and listened to the usual blah blah blah....... and certainly betterer than trying to do the Uffizi, Doge's Palace or Vatican Museum by yourself (though don't think you can do Vatican other than with a tour guide). Other than the irreverence, I find the other view of history interesting........ history generally having been written by someone called Victor...... tends to be somewhat one sided. And I am very much in favour of redressing the imbalance of colonial imperialism.
     
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