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News Couple lost on Mt Buffalo

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by emkae, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    how do you know they didn't have a map or compass? there is nothing in the article about that. if the bush was impenetrable they may have opted for what seemed doable rather than navigating by map. lots of experienced walkers would neglect to take a map on a walk they expected to be fairly easy and well defined. we don't know what their expectations of the walk were, or what the basis was for that expectation.

    they are old enough that they have probably done hundreds of walks before mobiles, gps and plb were invented.
    they seem to have used their experience to not panic. they said they spent 4 nights in the same place, so presumably they made rational decisions to descend, get to a water source and stay put.
     
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  2. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    They did well once they got off track.to stay cool...........it worries me that the trail was so hard to follow and difficult to relocate once they got off trail....I don’t know specifics of the track...let’s hope it is not a sign posted track at the start or has a warning that the track is designated difficult to navigate through.

    You don’t want people wandering of track....if you can help it...perhaps some markers/signs and a bit of track work may be required.
    They certainly got themselves into trouble once they came off track.....they should have been able to refind it or get back again after examining map/compass/gps..
     
  3. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Garmin InReach is a great 2 way communicator and location locator in cases like this......
    ......just saying.
     
  4. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Always difficult to judge a situation from the outside.

    Experience counts for a lot in these kinds of situations.

    Especially in the Australian bush it’s frequently not a case of disorientation, just thick bush and terrain challenges - you just have to keep your head about you and keep going - self-rescue essentially. Which is what we had here. Sometimes it’s better to keep going, sometimes it’s better to bail.

    In the bush the biggest danger is oneself, and knowing what can and can’t be done comes from hard experience. And then there’s good and bad luck - you play the hand you’re dealt.
     
  5. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    we suggest even day walkers take matches,led torch and marker tape in addition to expensive navigational gadgets!
     
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  6. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Jeezus. I don't want to be snarky, but moralising from someone who runs out of water on walks; who seems to end up buggered on every walk he essays; who carries a load beyond rational comprehension; and who takes a companion on a walk beyond her ability and then abandons her is a bit rich. That itch in your eye is a plank.
     
  7. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us

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    Also a case for PLBs offered at Police Stations, a la the Blue Mountains https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/questions/where-to-hire-emergency-beacon

    Personal responsibility is all well and good, but the overall cost saving available by having PLBs offered through police stations (and a corresponding register of intent for hikers) is enormous.

    All that being said - it sounds like the walk was not expected to be a long one if they left at 9:30 and were expected back by 12:30?
     
  8. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Easy boys and girls.....

    Team Bears are most compassionate in regard to this event and are pleased by the outcome....
    But let’s face it.....an expensive search was undertaken to find two fit people that had become disorientated in good weather(not snow....blizzard)...they were suffering no medical conditions and were in perfect physical health ......

    So .....things could have been handled better by the duo!
    A fire at night would have brought an immediate response as the air wing were looking for them??

    So we take it they had no matches,led torch whistle perhaps!

    Accidents happen out there....sprained ankles....logs roll diwn hill and injure folk etc etc..
    but when you are “exoerienced” ....familiar with an area it’s troublesome when searchers are out there for four F...days!
     
  9. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    “We were sensible. We kept calm and rational. That’s what helped us out.

    “We knew we weren’t far away from people and help but we had about a 250-foot drop in front of us. It took a few days to work out if we could get down there and then decide, yep, we’ll walk out.”

    Ms Bohan said they could hear the sound of people in the distance yesterday — a speed boat and a helicopter — and knew that help was near.

    “We knew that people were probably really worried that we’re injured and yet we weren’t. It wasn’t great but we were comfortable.”
    https://www.news.com.au/national/vi...a/news-story/29902e60446faa1e33e4ecc0d83abc0e

    "We could hear speed boats on Lake Buffalo and there were campers below us, there were cows and a dog and there were lights as well, so we knew we weren't far away from people and help," Mr Salvado added.

    "But we had about a 250-foot drop in front of us so we took a few days just to take a look at it and work out if we could get down there."

    After spending days surviving on food from their backpack, including muesli and snack bars, the couple decided on Tuesday they needed to leave.

    "We were in a good spot, a safe spot so I really believed we would get found," Ms Bohan said.

    "But we knew we had to think about our mind set and we just knew if we stayed too much longer and they hadn't found us, oh my God. So, today we got the energy, let's go."

    They just "walked out from where we were" and soon came across a mini-bus of TAFE students who were on a canoeing trip.

    The experienced hikers said they got lost a couple of hours into their walk on Friday afternoon but never lost confidence that they would be found.
    https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/di...continues-for-missing-vic-hikers-ng-s-1930647
     
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  10. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    A lot of packs, including daypacks have an emergency whistle incorporated into the sternum strap plastic buckle.
    We’ ve got 2 such packs.
     
  11. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Back in 2008 a hiking friend and I were doing a bit of off track exploration in the Lerderderg Gorge, both of us had hundreds of days experience, but we still took all the standard stuff like maps, compass, phones, warm tops, raincoats (even though it was a dry day), etc. But because we were off track in a rarely visited area, we became slightly disoriented and couldn't find a cliff free egress from the floor of the gorge.

    Dusk was falling and we nearly became benighted. We discussed things and we would have been fine, neither of us had a lighter, so we would have been cold and hungry but okay. Both of us lived alone so no one would create bother by raising an alarm and we just planned to walk out first thing in the morning when the light returned.

    Fortunately at the last possible moment, my friend found a route out along an abandoned footpad and we got to her car just before it got pitch dark. But every day walk since then I've always carried a lighter, just in case. BTW lighters are much better than matches, if a lighter gets wet, 10 minutes in your pocket will have it working perfectly. If matches get wet, they will never work properly again.
     
  12. CaptainC

    CaptainC Hard Yards

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    The report on the Age website says that they were found along Yarrarabula track. That track follows Yarrarabula creek, which runs into Lake Buffalo east of the Buffalo river and runs in a SSE direction. It also says that they were walking a 3 hr circuit from Reservoir car park, but doesn't give any names. BTW a friend who tested those plastic whistles says you can't hear them very far.
     
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  13. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I too have a day pack and an overnight pack with such whistles built in.
     
  14. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I go out in to the wilderness all the time without anything. Love it. Get away from people beseeching their ernest opinions, telling me what to do and how I should do it.
    Happy to go look for or resuscitate anyone who fails trying to do the same.
    We've all become so safe its boring.
     
  15. weerab

    weerab One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Tom Elliot on 3AW was carrying on yesterday about this couple. He could not believe that they were not carrying an EPIRB, a Flare or a mobile phone. I find it unusual that they were not carrying a phone but who carries a flare or a beacon when walking at somewhere like Buffalo. Maybe I am out of touch but I would never have considered it. Some of the posts on this forum, posted before the couple were found, are just , what can I say, bloody sickening.
     
  16. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    The main thing is that their story ended with a happy ending. It did seem grim to me after four nights in the wild without any trace of them , but it is good that they have been located and emerged unscathed .
     
  17. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Must admit, my first thought was that the son did it! That photo, haha.

    Glad they are OK, surely as a searcher/rescuer, volly or paid, that result is the best thing. Not to mention the people themselves, and their families etc.

    IMO they needed to hide for another 3 days, and maybe cut off a finger or two, to get six figures for the story.

    Very happy that so far it has not been me.
     
  18. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Tom Elliot is an idiot.
    Perhaps every baby should have an EPIRB sewn in under the skull at birth.
    Old fit couple went walking and got lost, and made sensible decisions - good on them! Better than the sedentary obese unhealthy collective I deal with every day.
    Cleve Cole would be giggling or rolling in his grave.
     
  19. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    I did think it was a beat up on a slow news day myself. Kids would have been different but an older experienced couple ??
    . People call out the cavalry far too quickly
     
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  20. weerab

    weerab One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well, he is John Elliot's son. Pig's Arse! I must admit I agree with a lot of what Tom has to say, probably as I get older and more right wing, but he is just so obviously right wing and racist it's hard to take him seriously.
     
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  21. weerab

    weerab One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Did you ever read John Christopher's teenage science fiction series, the "Tripods", it was a BBC series. A great series of books, every child had a brain implant at birth, probably not too far away!
     
  22. weerab

    weerab One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I was talking to my wife about this couple tonight. When I look back, I have had four occasions when things could have gone pear shaped while hiking or skiing, Once on Baw Baw when a summer's day turned into snow, once on the Fainters when we were geographically embarrassed, and twice on Feathertop when the weather turned nasty and we could hardly see from one pole to the next. We could easily have died except for a bit of good luck and and a bit of nouse.
     
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  23. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    You can whistle crazy loud with a thin piece of paper or leaf.
     
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  24. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes! Loved those books as a kid. And have had many close shaves myself, pre- mobile phones and mandatory epirbs. One time skiing back on Razorback with fog so thick I had vertigo so bad I ended up pissing myself to work out up from down.
     
  25. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    There is no pole line on Mt. FT. That may explain something.
     
  26. weerab

    weerab One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    When I say Feathertop, the first incident was returning from MUMC to Diamantina hut in snow in April and the second was skiing back from Derrick hut to Mt loch car park in blizzard. We should have stayed put but we had this stupid compulsion to get back to Melbourne for work on the Monday!
     
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  27. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Since when have 58 and 60 been old? Are you still at school?
     
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  28. weerab

    weerab One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well they are not that far off from being three score and ten! :) I am soixante neuf now so will be 3 score and ten next birthday!
     
  29. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well, you would call them middle-aged at best! Do you think of yourself as 'old'? Did you think yourself 'old' a decade ago?
     
  30. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Im 55, and thats old. When I was 16, 30 was old. Now, oh to be 30 again! Don't see too many people my age, and even less older, still riding the lift with the mtb.....
     
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  31. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I sometimes research and write technical reports, my specialities are mostly infrastructure and policy related things. But there are other people in our little community of professional researchers and report writers there who write about more human related stuff. From them I get the idea that they often break down descriptions of age groups into:

    Birth - 20ish are kids.
    20 - 40 are young adults.
    40 - 60 are middle aged.
    60 - stumps are elderly.

    Of course there are no formal designations of these things and when I was in my 30s, "middle aged" was always 5 years older than my age at the time.
     
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  32. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    It’s not young.

    Admittedly there are young looking and young acting 60 year olds; and then there are people who act like they’re 85 and time-out when they’re 50. But 60 was traditionally “retirement age”, so yes - old.
     
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  33. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Team Bears know they are getting old when they walk up Staircase !!:oops:
    Then over night they get cramps in the legs!
     
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  34. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    There's old in the body and old in the mind. My mind thinks I'm 30, my body thinks I'm 80+. I think the previous generations were more adapted to feeling old sooner. Not many women of my mother's generation were involved in physical activities past 40, except maybe golf or social tennis
     
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  35. sbm_

    sbm_ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Hell, I had a friend who referred to herself as "Grandma" when she was 24. I couldn't stand it.

    A compass and map are pretty useless in thick bush honestly. If you're properly lost, how are you going to take back bearings from landmarks, when you can only see about ten feet? How are you going to follow a bearing when you're constantly having to turn left or right around obstacles (you have a tendency to pick one or the other, and end up drifting in that direction) How can you measure distance accurately when your stride is so interrupted? I mean you can account for all that stuff, but unless you're a competitive rogainer, you pretty much never practice it after the nav course you did that one time years ago.

    Most lost I ever got was with a map and compass. Local knowledge of the terrain and geology is often worth more. I reckon you develop a sixth sense for following the crests of faint, undulating ridgelines if you walk a lot in the Blue Mountains, and in that region, it will keep you on track better than any technology.
     
  36. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I used to run remote area navigation courses and I have to agree with sbm. People tend to have a mental block about compass work, so I used to delay it till the very end of the course when people were feeling pretty confident about everything else that they'd learnt. Then I usually sent them to a rogaine with the suggestion that they walked and enjoyed themselves rather than get all competitive and knacker themselves running. A rogaine consolidates all the little things people have been taught or just picked up through experience and makes them combine lots of different techniques to get to an objective in the easiest and most efficient way.

    You can teach stuff like 'aiming off' or heading on a bearing for something in the middle distance rather than an objective that is too close, but I reckon one of the most important things in navigation or knowing where you are on a map, is just having a feeling for the vibe of that particular area and that can only be picked up if you know the area slightly already.
     
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  37. Rabid K9

    Rabid K9 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Plainly they also needed a guitar weighing them down....
     
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  38. Rabid K9

    Rabid K9 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Flare on dry autumn Buffalo plateau?

    Sounds sensible?
     
  39. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    A FRB and a smoke beacon in one go eh? :)

    Good they were found

    Good they went out there

    Most vollies for SAR SES etc appreciate that people do active shit and then fk up.....rather than do nothing and fk nothing up.
     
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  40. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Bogong takes a single lady for a walk and gets them lost. High five! Bugger she got her way out though.
     
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  41. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Nah, there was nothing in it. Certainly she was a trusted, wise and reliable hiking friend (which is why I accepted her invitation to do the off track exploration in a notoriously scrubby and cliffy area), but sorry, no romantic interest from either of us.

    Anyway, I would have thought that most highly experienced people who have the expertise to extract themselves from awkward situations (including yourself) like to push things a bit and head into difficult places. It gets a bit bland if you only stick to tracks or easy off track routes.
     
  42. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Cowbells??

    So when they have the little S&R follow up discussion ....how close did searchers get to the location that they were at for four days??

    Team Bears want to know what type of muesli bars were consumed by the duo?:whistle:
     
  43. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    They we're not lost, they where sitting on a ledge looking over mankind waiting to be rescued.
     
    #93 dawooduck, Mar 13, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  44. weerab

    weerab One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I would consider myself to be old, but not elderly that has connotations for me of being kinda doddery. In my head I am still about 16, my wife is always saying "you are such a child" and I think she is right.
     
  45. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Let the music guide you , man ;-P
     
  46. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Map and compass nav is pretty easy imo. Following a bearing when you can is basic. But if you're in difficult terrain, following a contour can be very useful to get to a point where a bearing can be taken. I mean, let's face it, following a contour is fairly simple in most terrain - if you go down a bit to get around an obstacle, then go up a bit, etc.
     
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  47. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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  48. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    You mean after there were only two or three left in the 'high alpine' Teckel?
     
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  49. iagreewithhim

    iagreewithhim One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Location:
    A very long way from the snow
    Carry GPS. Turn tracking on.
    /problem
     
  50. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I was looking at the SV map of Mt. Buffalo and where the lost and now found couple ended up is long way from any half day loop you can walk starting from the Reservoir rd. car park. The mind boggles how they could just plough on thinking "oh this must be the right route". Anyway they are safe now.