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DEBATE - Definition of Subtropics for the purpose of this forum.

Discussion in 'Eastern & Marine' started by Richard, Jul 8, 2019.

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  1. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    NOTE: This illustration is not a prescriptive guide - it is a starting point of debate.

    The Yellow Band
    (Shamelessly stolen from Wikipedia).



    Subtropical.png
     
  2. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    Which basically leaves just Tassie and Victoria as the 'Southern' in Alpine & Southern.
     
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  3. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    And an area near Alice Springs, by the looks of it.
     
  4. teck

    teck First Runs

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    you are kidding aren't you?
    SA is not in the sub tropics and isnt even close.
     
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  5. teck

    teck First Runs

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    My suggestion if you want to really look after all the SA WZ peeps, is set up a seperate forum for SA/WA
     
  6. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    There's a thread for SA and one for WA?
     
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  7. teck

    teck First Runs

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    yes there are threads for the 2 states in the sub tropic forum which makes zero sense.
     
  8. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Rename the forum title then?
     
  9. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    Well...

    Technically it is.

    80+% of SA is between Tropic of Capricorn and 35 deg South. And that's the definition of 'Subtropics'. And virtually none of WA is south of 35deg pretty much

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtropics
     
  10. MegaMatch

    MegaMatch Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

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    I agree Adelaide & SA should probably be a part of Southern tbh. I mean, it is "South Australia" after all. :D
     
  11. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    Ok - so yesterday we had folk declaring it was not Southern.
     
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  12. MegaMatch

    MegaMatch Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

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    Ah, I wasn't aware of this. Well, bugger if I know how they want it then.
     
  13. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    Well to settle difference of opinions - one falls back to the official definitions.
     
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  14. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    What we have got here is a miss-mapping of the state based carving up of weather at WZ and minimising the volume of sub-forums here - which I know is what is needed to create momentum. 7 subforums plus one general and one alpine would end up with just one thread in 6 of them. This does not work in generating activity.

    So we are back to needing nomenclature that nails it.
     
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  15. teck

    teck First Runs

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    o_Oo_O ROFL.... except it doesn't have a sub-tropical climate due its location. ie. surrounded by desert on all sides and the Southern Ocean to the south. Pretty ironic having a weather forum if our threads aren't even in the right climate area.
    Doesn't matter... just thought I'd help with encouraging SA folk here but looks like we are more keen on the CD weather forums.
     
  16. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    This
    and thats what occured in WZ.
    They divided the cake into so many small slices. They were impossible to consume.
     
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  17. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Gee toys and cot..
    While i get your point. Its important the forums and threads evolve organically.
    This isn't a reproduction of WZ and its make-up.
    These forums are also navigated in a different way than WZ.
     
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  18. teck

    teck First Runs

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    You obviously have no idea how the WZ forums worked mate.
    Here's the SA forum alone.... http://forum.weatherzone.com.au/ubbthreads.php/forums/26/1/South_Australia
    Not just 1 thread.... years and years of different threads. If you want SA folk here there will be a seperate thread for each major event.
     
  19. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    subtropical only means palm trees and greenery if you watch too many movies. A fair chunk of the worlds deserts are in subtropical bands.

    You need to get familiar with the backstory of how we got to this.
     
  20. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    It does not matter what alternative you arrive at, it will never be the exact same as WZ. That place was a dinosaur and a lot of the structure was unconsidered and patched in as afterthought. Sticky threads hanging about that had not been posted in for years. Sub-forums created for three threads. There's a reason it started to fall apart that was not just the aging tech of the platform.

    But.. that said, I'm listening to you. I'm not 100% settled on where we are at either. But I do know what is important to generate activity.
     
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  21. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    at primary school we were told that Sydney was in the temperate zone

    [​IMG]

    the wiki whence came that pic also says:
    'The temperate zones span from either north or south of the subtropics (north of the yellow dotted line, at 40 degrees north) to the polar circles'.
     
  22. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think what @Richard has done, is create enough SUB-forums to cover different areas in Australia by definition. The states threads cover day by day weather obs within those sub-forums. But ANY POSTER can create any number of threads for MAJOR events, they don't have to reside in the day by day threads..... And it makes sense: day by day threads are somewhat mundane, and contain info/observations that interest people. But MAJOR events can and should have their own threads.
    It needs to evolve organically, and that means posting more threads. Here at ski.com.au, we are not forcing anybody to restrict the threads they would like to start.... that's what the posters of thread can do themselves. We've provided a weather platform that you can do what ever you want (within reason ;) )
     
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  23. StormCapture

    StormCapture First Runs

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    Actually having sub forums is a far more efficient way as you can seperate different weather events when they are predicted and occurring instead of having to go back through many pages of posts to reach it.

    My opinion is that you have one major area dedicated to the WZ forum users and split everything into states/territories.

    Nothing is ever going to be the same regardless, many have switched to the use of social media as it’s a lot easier for some things like sharing photos and see posts happen real time, plus many are logged on via their phones and tablets. It’s how the world is today.

    I myself have never considered SA/Adel a subtropic considering we are Mediterranean; wet winters and dry summers and you can see where some confusion can occur. But that’s my 2c worth on it
     
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  24. teck

    teck First Runs

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    and thank you for listening. A lot of the structure of WZ was good though. SA needed its own forum due to its unique climate and weather patterns. It was just as busy as other states as well right up until this year really, but much of the forums died then anyway. You can see from the link I posted.

    You even said in the other thread... "If we take cues from what was actually active on Weatherzone then your list covers it pretty much." Well hopefully you do take those cues.
     
  25. MegaMatch

    MegaMatch Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

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    The thing is, WA and SA's climate is absolutely nothing like that of say SEQ / NE NSW and the rest of NSW. Maybe we should be basing sections on the type of climate somehow? I don't know.
     
  26. teck

    teck First Runs

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    Agreed. Sth WA and SA are Mediterranean climates. Hence my suggestion of combining them.
     
  27. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    Definitions are an interesting thing.

    One can be all of the following - but which one resonates where and when is very contextual;

    Roman
    Italian
    Mediterranean
    European
    Migrant
    New Australian
    Melbournian
    Christian
    Catholic
    Orthodox

    What we have here is contextual dissonance.

    You can't please all of the people all of the time, but so long as we have 80% of the people with a common understanding within a similar context. We have a win.
     
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  28. MegaMatch

    MegaMatch Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

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    Mediterranean...that's the one I was looking for, yeah.
     
  29. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Which of those things can't you do on these forums?
    work well on tablets and phones
    you can set notifications on a "watched" thread and IU think you get notifications of new threads in a "watched" forum.
    photos are very easy to upload
     
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  30. StormCapture

    StormCapture First Runs

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    I haven’t tried photos as I have no photos to publish of yet.
    I get a notification but not one that pops Up on the lock screen or at the top, only when I’m on the site
     
  31. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    It seems to me that @Richard's hard won knowledge of how forums work tells us that 4 sub-forums is an appropriate number for this stage of the migration of WZ folk.. A few people would like more, but that's very unlikely to happen unless there are enough people posting to gs vibrant. People seem reasonably happy with the names of the other sub forums. The main angst is about the name of the Aus one that isn't tropical or alpine.
     
  32. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    Debate this

    Weather
    Alpine & South
    Centre & Marine
    North & Cyclones
    General & World
    With some appropriate editing of the descriptions
     
  33. MegaMatch

    MegaMatch Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

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    Climate zones:

    Mediterranean - WA, SA
    Subtropical - SEQ/NE NSW, NSW
    Tropics - northern WA/NT/QLD, TC & monsoon talk belongs in here.
    Alpine & Southern - VIC, southern NSW?
    World - World

    It really depends whether you think adding one more sub-forum (Mediterranean) is viable or not. Dare I say, now that I've also thought about it more, I think NSW/QLD should be separate from SA/WA but like I said, it would require another sub-forum.
     
  34. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    I'm keeping it Alpine & South rather than South & Alpine because... it's still a snow site at heart
     
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  35. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    I see where you are going, and on paper it makes sense - but it's adding one more item to the nomeclature theme - but the theme is what is flawed.

    Not enough folk identify readily with the climate bands - they identify with states and compass nomenclature
     
  36. teck

    teck First Runs

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    IMO its a catch 22. I dont think you will get the people posting from SA, without you creating a space for them. By waiting to see if it happens to justify it, it will lead to them looking elsewhere.

    And +1 for MegaMatch's proposal.... it makes sense.
     
  37. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    In your preferences you can tell it to send a notification if someone posts in a watched thread. Notifications are sent as email (if there are alternatives, I'm not aware of them) So if you have email notification on your lock screen, you will see new posts in threads you care about.




    You can also set it to automatically watch any thread you post in - although I think turning both of these on would generate a lot of notifications unless you only post in a few threads.
     
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  38. bd7

    bd7 Hard Yards

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    your yellow area at the top of the posts cuts SA into two parts with the South Mallee and SE SA in a different southern area,
    and likely cuts the top of VIC mallee into yellow and the rest in the south. SA and VIC are all similar weather most of the time
    and need to be in the same section
     
  39. Darb

    Darb Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Even WA is massively different from top to bottom ,top to bottom is 2,500km's, with utterly different weather systems.

    Likewise WA to SA distances are more than the width continental Europe lol
     
  40. teck

    teck First Runs

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    If they identify with the states rather than climate, then you have to make it state based threads? But I thought you didnt want that?
     
  41. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    I reserve the right to change my mind though, consistency is part of UX

    If it's day 1 then it has to be either;

    South & Alpine
    Centre & Marine
    North & Cyclones

    or

    Alpine & South
    Marine & Centre
    Cyclones & North

    Thing & Direction

    or

    Direction & Thing
     
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  42. MegaMatch

    MegaMatch Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

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    The Alpine and South thing...who suggested South and Alpine? I just thought that was going to be left as is?
     
  43. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    It's state based threads, but it's not state based sub-forums. Else, we end up with six sub-forums with one thread in five of them and 2000 in the one with legacy snow tracking.

    New members turn up and the impression is - nothing is happening in their state.

    First impressions are important. There absolutely needs to be a perception of activity to generate activity. This is the challenge.
     
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  44. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    this as getting bigger than scallops vs potato cakes
     
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  45. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    Me, I suggest my own contradictions

    Do I contradict myself?
    Very well then I contradict myself,
    (I am large, I contain multitudes.)
     
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  46. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    I'm going to make those changes, then make a coffee and see how it feels with a little reflection

    The other thing with UX. No amount of conversation and paper prototypes makes up for making it real.
     
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  47. teck

    teck First Runs

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    But as I have explained twice already, it wont be 1 thread. eg. A mediterranean subforum would start with the WA and SA day to day threads PLUS then event threads as they happen. Within a month you would have multiple threads in the sub forum just as you do in any sub forum now.
     
  48. MegaMatch

    MegaMatch Hard Yards Ski Pass: Silver

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    I see what you're saying, but the truth is there will always be times when no interesting weather is happening in either state, and it's only natural that those threads will be quieter during those times. I don't think a slightly inactive thread is a reflection on a dead sub-forum...just that maybe there's no interesting weather to talk about!
     
  49. teck

    teck First Runs

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    and exactly where does sth WA sit now with your new structure? It doesnt anywhere?
    Make it easier for everyone and go with mediterranean... ;)
     
  50. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    Mediterranean subforum is not state based either - it's still a climate band.

    Plus the word.. 'mediterranean' is not strong enough. It's fundamentally associated with northern hemisphere and the Mediterranean sea

    Microcontent must absolutely be 'pearls of clarity', and this debate is happening precisely because we have not reached that crystal clear nirvana yet.
     
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