News Design Services Falls To Hotham Alpine Crossing

DPS Driver

A Local
Jul 18, 2014
5,728
6,834
563
Hi all,

Just saw this tender released

Display Tender ITS2-00345 Design Services Falls To Hotham Alpine Crossing​

 

Musgrove

One of Us
Apr 22, 2004
408
322
163
Canberra
 

skifree

A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe
Moderator
Ski Pass
Jul 13, 1998
33,701
35,261
1,063
Middle Oz

Interesting, a quite different route to that detailed in the Iconic F to H brochure.
 

Chaeron

Ski-Hike-Blade-Bike-Kayak
Ski Pass
Jun 24, 2014
7,735
14,886
563
Dandenong Ranges
Interesting, a quite different route to that detailed in the Iconic F to H brochure.
That’s the ‘existing’ route.

Proposed route here:



4736E470-6E3A-4490-AD40-8BDA8244C4A0.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: skifree
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass

skifree

A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe
Moderator
Ski Pass
Jul 13, 1998
33,701
35,261
1,063
Middle Oz


Yeah, they really need to build two routes keeping them as separate as possible.

One that goes thru Dibbins Hut, the cruisers route.

And the Diamantina Spur route for the harder core.

This 2 routes creating choice would create some uniqueness about this particular Iconic trail. It would also make it an obvious loop, go out one way, come back the other.

But hey what do I know given I have walked & skied all these routes compared to the initial brochure which is full of basic errors and suggested strongly of a lack of basic site visitation. So move on the next stage hopefully with better product than the initial brochure.
 

Xplora

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 7, 2015
2,332
4,815
363
A bit of the cart before the horse. No economic modelling or EIS has been released apart from a desktop version which has been debunked. Why call for tenders?
 
  • Love
Reactions: Chaeron

skifree

A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe
Moderator
Ski Pass
Jul 13, 1998
33,701
35,261
1,063
Middle Oz

Xplora

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 7, 2015
2,332
4,815
363
It is all years away from breaking ground. Parks will need cultural permission and that may not be granted. The original concept plan proposed a few different models for who pays the building costs. Private money was preferred. That would mean convincing people it was a good investment. Parks would have to lease the land and we know from the Buffalo chalet that PV do not like handing out long term leases.
 

skifree

A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe
Moderator
Ski Pass
Jul 13, 1998
33,701
35,261
1,063
Middle Oz
A bit of the cart before the horse. No economic modelling or EIS has been released apart from a desktop version which has been debunked. Why call for tenders?

Because NSW is building it's Iconic Walk and the Vicco's need one too. So it's gunna happen, EIS to come, economic modelling? that's just for doubters.

I'd quite happy if the project does not proceed.

But I think it is inevitable albeit along a wandering path to resolve EIS, Economic Models, Funding Source, Cultural Permission and so on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GS and Chaeron

skifree

A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe
Moderator
Ski Pass
Jul 13, 1998
33,701
35,261
1,063
Middle Oz
From the tender page including the obligatory spelling error.

So this is for design of only the campsites and not the trail itself. This would allow sensible infrastructure costing and provide something for EIS by way of the infrastructure impact. So I do see this as a sensible step provided they secure a reasonable fee from a suitably experienced design team which I do not see as difficult.




Design Services Falls To Hotham Alpine Crossing
Issued By Parks Victoria
Advanced Tender Notice
Status:
Advance Notice
Number:
ITS2-00345
Contract Number
ITS2-00345
Estimated Advertising Date:
27 September 2021 02:00 PM
UNSPSC
Building and Facility Construction and Maintenance Services

Enquiries

Other Contacts

  • Ron Parker
  • Technical
  • Phone: - follow link for this
  • email deleted, follow link for this

Description

Architectural design, site planning and landscape architectural design services for overnight accomodation nodes and ancillary infrastructure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chaeron

Chaeron

Ski-Hike-Blade-Bike-Kayak
Ski Pass
Jun 24, 2014
7,735
14,886
563
Dandenong Ranges
The link above talks about walking at 2000m above sea level. The iconic trail will be quite expensive to construct if it includes raising the mountains a couple of hundred metres.
I'm all for the idea though :)
In line with the general overall level of expertise of the plan as a whole. …..

Not exactly sure the office-bound consultants who devised the plan have gone up or down Diamantina Spur either…

How they construct glamping huts adjacent to existing ‘heritage’ structures without impacting their heritage value is hard to see.

From a city office perspective concerned with increased tourism usage the existing huts are all just a pile of old timber and corrugated iron in the way of increased capitalisation of under-utilised resources and user pays cash flows…. Or alternatively a landmark which can be viewed as a tourist feature.

Let’s not forget that much of our High Plains ‘heritage’ is a history of environmental and human disposession, desecration and exploitation….rent-seeking at the cost of the environment.

In all honesty so much of the Bogong Plain and High Country is already so significantly compromised- the ubiquity of horses and blackberry and the impact of our large scale hydrology projects alone is very depressing.

Don’t get me started on the level of maintenance of so many existing tracks which can’t attract
funding.

I’m an optimist- on the grounds of ‘sacrificial’ development I ironically hope increased visitation will lead to increased ecological advocacy and more votes for looking after our threatened Parks…

Walking around the High country one is also exposed to a certain irony - the remains of development by the timber getters and miners of up to 7 decades back has already been swallowed up by the bush.

Maybe with modern technology and GPS we can now remove those ugly snow pole lines that desecrate the high ridges (of course, lets ignore their life-saving value in a blizzard).

Ironically the current proposal provides a continuity with the creation of Roper hut - state support of tourism infrastructure…. We’re back to where we were about a century ago.

I’m with @skifree here - this proposal won’t go away and it’s about optimising the infrastructure while protecting what one can.

For anti-social types like myself - when the existing camp sites already have a tent (or two, or three or seven) up we probably already hike through…. and camp in other optimal spots we know.

The other interesting question is of course whether the resorts will be able to get up commercial guided winter touring operation - a hut circuit - going off the back of this.

Not that there would necessarily be a successful business case for that… although that never stopped anyone….
 

Xplora

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 7, 2015
2,332
4,815
363
The other interesting question is of course whether the resorts will be able to get up commercial guided winter touring operation - a hut circuit - going off the back of this.
This is in fact what I believe to the be the base support for the project from the RMB's. Why else would there be accommodation on the Razerback. Nobody in the target market is going to walk up Diamantina spur when they can walk out from Hotham and the commercial operators have already said they will not take clients up it. The walk in its present state is mediocre at best. It is already a tourist track for beginners and as visitation increases we find other areas that are more secluded to walk and camp. Also much better but you will not get me to post those spots and if I ever show someone, it will be at the cost of their first born if they tell. My biggest issue is exclusion of the non paying at traditional camp areas but it will not affect me until I find some random at my favourite secret spot who found it through instagram because a commercial guide took a group there.

I was told something would happen but maybe not in the form of the initial proposal. The government is hell bent on providing something in the High country for the namby pambies of the walking world so I also see it inevitable. I can only hope all who invest go broke. We can still agitate and make Parks accountable.
 

skifree

A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe
Moderator
Ski Pass
Jul 13, 1998
33,701
35,261
1,063
Middle Oz
y for the namby pambies of the walking world

I think this is something we need to get over.

Look at the NZ model and experience. It’s not a negative thing.

And the Three Capes thing in Tas. Again ultimately not a negative thing. And a good use of otherwise crap walking zones which has thrown pressure to Forest Tas to reveg quicker & earlier.

There are a lot of good things that come out of providing a good wilderness experience to folks who are never going to be interested in hard core.
 

Seth

I am figure skating
Ski Pass
Jun 6, 2000
44,269
25,386
1,525
The Higher Ground
I think this is something we need to get over.

Look at the NZ model and experience. It’s not a negative thing.

And the Three Capes thing in Tas. Again ultimately not a negative thing. And a good use of otherwise crap walking zones which has thrown pressure to Forest Tas to reveg quicker & earlier.

There are a lot of good things that come out of providing a good wilderness experience to folks who are never going to be interested in hard core.
If you want more people to truly care about something you need to get them out there to learn, feel and appreciate it.

that appreciation may take a different form to your own but that doesn’t make it any less valid.
 

Xplora

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 7, 2015
2,332
4,815
363
I think this is something we need to get over.

Look at the NZ model and experience. It’s not a negative thing.

And the Three Capes thing in Tas. Again ultimately not a negative thing. And a good use of otherwise crap walking zones which has thrown pressure to Forest Tas to reveg quicker & earlier.

There are a lot of good things that come out of providing a good wilderness experience to folks who are never going to be interested in hard core.
The current walk does this well enough now but without the fancy accommodation or the exclusion of those who are not paying for it. The later I object to more. I have guided the wealthy in the faux wilderness experience and all they did was whinge. And then to accommodate the luxury the support crew will be given permission to invade with supply vehicles including helicopters and oversnow vehicles. I don't see many of these people caring too much for the environment after their walk but there is scope for education. Will enough become wilderness warriors after to justify the damage done creating the faux experience?
 

skifree

A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe
Moderator
Ski Pass
Jul 13, 1998
33,701
35,261
1,063
Middle Oz
or the exclusion of those who are not paying for it

I think we must reading the Brochure differently here. Pretty certain there were to be two camp sites, one for commercial customers and one for the rest each with appropriate facilities. So I'm unsure where the exclusion is.
 

skifree

A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe
Moderator
Ski Pass
Jul 13, 1998
33,701
35,261
1,063
Middle Oz
I don't see many of these people caring too much for the environment after their walk

I did see some research into this using interviews / surveys of folks off the Overland Track and the results strongly suggested and higher appreciation of wilderness and a greater interest in protecting it. It may have been done by the ACF or the Greens. @Cam Walker can you assist here?
 

teletimmo

Addicted
Jul 16, 2008
85
325
133
The link above talks about walking at 2000m above sea level. The iconic trail will be quite expensive to construct if it includes raising the mountains a couple of hundred metres.
I'm all for the idea though :)
Yes, liars, I picked up on that too!
 

canestocks

One of Us
May 21, 2012
341
294
163
Armidale
The Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing is a 37km three-day hike through the Alpine National Park from Falls Creek to Mt Hotham. Enjoy spectacular views of mountain ridges from 2000m above sea level, walk through beautiful Snow Gum woodland and camp near two historic huts.

Yes, liars, I picked up on that too!
Some upheaval I haven't felt? Pushes Bogong to what 2100m? Though my geologist mate did tell me that the southern side of the continent is rising as we crash into the Indonesian plate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chaeron

Xplora

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 7, 2015
2,332
4,815
363
The master plan stated independent walkers would not be allowed to camp near the official campsites and there considerable objection as these campsites have been traditionally used by people but they will have to find somewhere else now. That would be the exclusion I referred to. More information about the project is found here:

'It will bring tangible economic benefits to the alpine resorts and towns as well as other local businesses and tour operators and engage a new generation of advocates who appreciate and value the unique alpine environment.'

The business case put forward in the plan stated a 7:1 return for dollars spent but it when you look at the number of people it anticipated doing the walk (and paying) it was an impossible figure to attain. The number from memory was 17,000 people per year. That is about 47 people starting the walk every single day and when you factor in days when nobody starts (about half as an estimate) you can imagine there would have to be 100 people starting every day and accommodation only for a dozen or so at each node. Nothing in the plan actually works which leads me to believe there are other agendas.

PV have been told no guiding companies anticipate taking any clients going up Diamantina spur but it is persisting with this model that requires significant transformation of the landscape and helicopter supported accommodation at the top in the only secluded camping area available on the Razorback.

Some people will make money from this walk. Mostly in the construction phase. BHP is a prime destination for many tourists but the concept of iconic walks is just a marketing sell. The marketing of the walk will attract more day visitors I suspect than overnight as parts of it are accessible by vehicle. FCRM have not done a great deal to support summer activities traditionally but there are indications that is changing. It is still hard to get accommodation providers to open in summer and only a few places to eat. So when the businesses in Falls Creek are not supporting summer activities now the resort management put their full weight behind a project that has been shown as not economically viable. That does not make sense to me.

I have no objection to track improvements that will reduce erosion and keep the hoards on the narrow pathway or sacrificing areas to a softer type walker if it protects other areas. We are learning a great deal from what is happening around Charlote Pass. Increased visitor traffic is a problem and Parks have not addressed this in the plan. The road is already a Federal crash blackspot and is in a very poor state.

That luxury wilderness experience can already be catered for out of Falls Creek and Hotham but there does not seem enough interest in that. Why are we to expect significantly more interest in this walk? I don't say there will be no interest but it will not be to the scale touted. Prove the business case first and I may change my mind.
 

hongomania

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jul 12, 2006
3,024
3,947
363
Melbourne
I was interested to hear the greens position, specifically on building of huts in NP

Received an email back from state greens office saying to contact a specific person

Contacted this person, who said due to impartiality agreements they could not comment

They then said I should contact the person I contacted in the first place

#facepalm - ye ole government ringaround

It's too frustrating and jading trying to be involved in society
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: skifree and Chaeron

Dropbear

One of Us
Aug 4, 2010
669
445
163
Northern Beaches
#facepalm - ye ole government ringaround

It's too frustrating and jading trying to be involved in society

That wouldn't have been fun. I feel your frustration, but on your last comment, remember that party politics systems are designed to make you feel jaded. They maintain their status and power by making the community feel disempowered.

Parties aren't the only conduit to having your aspirations represented in politics. Perhaps try reaching out to your local Voices group, such as those on this list of grassroots engagement groups, or set one up?

This documentary explains the situation really well:

 
  • Like
Reactions: hongomania
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass

Log in

or Log in using
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass