Diamond pattern chains at Hotham

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PTee

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Jul 11, 2013
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Dr. Wood Duck said:
Next car will be AWD, S3 or WRX or similar and I will get snow tyres for winter if the enforcement gets any sillier.
Won't you still have to carry chains regardless?
 

gareth_oau

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DWD, I mentioned earlier about fitting spacers behind the wheels to give more inner clearance and so accommodating normal diamond chains. Have you considered that as a cheaper solution?
 

Chondro

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Charlie said:
I don't see the value in buying a<span style="text-decoration: line-through"> $WD</span> 4WD just to go to the snow, there is the initial extra cost, potential extra maintenance cost, worse fuel economy (Is it just co-incidence that $ and 4 are on the same key?)
I prefer to get chunky tyres fitted (Not snow tyres) and just fit chains on the rare occasions there is actually snow at Baw Baw
frown.gif

i agree. our cherokee was purchased as we needed a decent size car for work, but i also needed a 4wd for removing snakes from back of blocks up here in mildura when they get down in the piping or areas where i need a 4wd to get into - which happens a bit up here after a bit of summer rain

that being said to - when i took it up the mountain it by far drove better than any commodore/kia ive driven up
 
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dawooduck

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gareth_oau said:
DWD, I mentioned earlier about fitting spacers behind the wheels to give more inner clearance and so accommodating normal diamond chains. Have you considered that as a cheaper solution?

Maybe for the next car.

I currently have &quot;normal diamond chains&quot; they just have smaller 7mm links which are a bit &quot;fragile&quot;
 
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Yardsale

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AstroSki66 said:
Very, &quot;I'm alright Jack&quot;, attitude. IMO.
nono.gif

laugh.gif
I consider myself disciplined - I been a bad boy, can I be spanked now?
 
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teckel

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Unless you're living close to and travelling to the snow very regularly, I wouldn't get winter tyres. They're not as safe as summer tyres in temperatures above 7 degrees. And if you've been driving for some distance before reaching the snow, your tyres are going to be over 7 degrees for much of the trip up the mountain and for some of the trip down. You would therefore be compromising your safety 95% of the time (or more) to be safer 5% of the time (or less). Sounds pretty dumb to me!
 

gareth_oau

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simple tecks, drive up 95% of the way on regular tyres, and carry a spare set of rims and snowtyres in the boot and change over half way up
laugh.gif
 
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Mercyrx3

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gareth_oau said:
DWD, I mentioned earlier about fitting spacers behind the wheels to give more inner clearance and so accommodating normal diamond chains. Have you considered that as a cheaper solution?
Wheel spacers are illegal in Victoria unless standard equipment.
 
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gareth_oau

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no doubt, but it may solve the problem effectively.

many things on cars (like louder exhausts) are illegal, but it doesnt stop people from doing them.

and i'm not quite sure why they are illegal, given that they are legal in most other countries, including where the cars are manufactured.
 

scullee

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FlatLander said:
Also there are no signs on the road (or at least none that I can see) that indicate any types of chains are not permitted!!!

Just as you come out of harrietville there is a sign saying diamond pattern chains only.
 
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dawooduck

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teckel said:
Dr. Wood Duck said:
Attacking snowtyres just makes some of you look very, very uninformed and exceptionally arrogant.
Codswallop! You go and completely change what snowtyres says, then attack those who can see straight through him.

snowtyres writing skills match your comprehesion skills but at least his delivery is factual and informative
 
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the_guru

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Look how smart I think I am. Blah, blah, blah.
Get over it folks.
Mods shut this one down as well please....
The chain discussion is getting very old. You need to carry diamond pattern chains at Mt Hotham. (Full stop).
Mt hotham would have developed to accomodate the average person years ago if they got their heads out of their arses.
 

main street

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teckel said:
Unless you're living close to and travelling to the snow very regularly, I wouldn't get winter tyres. They're not as safe as summer tyres in temperatures above 7 degrees. And if you've been driving for some distance before reaching the snow, your tyres are going to be over 7 degrees for much of the trip up the mountain and for some of the trip down. You would therefore be compromising your safety 95% of the time (or more) to be safer 5% of the time (or less). Sounds pretty dumb to me!

I need to dispel a myth here with the above.

Fact:

You are NOT compromising your safety with using winter tyres in 7 degree+ conditions.

That 2008 &quot;comparison test&quot; that some latch on to is VERY subjective &amp; did not go into specifics to an extent great enough to comprehensively go one way or the other.

The anecdotal performance differential between performance winter tyres (in 7+ degree conditions) &amp; &quot;average&quot; summer tyres is negligible.

The only realistic difference would be wear rates between the two tyre types,.... &amp; that would not be all that significant in any case.

IF,... the use of winter tyres in summer was inherently unsafe as some would indicate, then why wouldn't the use of winter tyres in summer be outlawed ?

The case in point is here in Canada.

Some provinces have legislated for the mandatory use of winter tyres in winter (typically October through April),.... &amp; this is well supported.

But what they HAVE NOT done,..... is legislate the reverse,..... You can use whatever tyres you want in summer. (Note: The exception being studded tyres)

Funny about that eh ?

I would rather be on a set of good winter tyres on summer roads, than on a shitty set of summer tyres with 40% of their life left.
 
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dawooduck

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teckel said:
the_guru said:
Look how smart I think I am. Blah, blah, blah.
Get over it folks.
This. The last resort of ducks.
Note to self - stop quacking with ducks.

That's a good note. Please follow it.
 
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ODNT

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I'm with Guru
Hotham's not concerned about losing market share
I do feel for those with alternative chains however
its Hotham's resort , so its Hotham's rules
either except it or go where your chains are excepted
 

teckel

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But it's not Hotham's resort. It's Victoria's resort, administered by a board appointed by the state government.
If it was privately owned, it would be different - they could do what they want, but it's publicly owned.

And that's their problem - they already do except spider chains, whereas they should accept them.
 

Astro66

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ODNT said:
I'm with Guru
Hotham's not concerned about losing market share
I do feel for those with alternative chains however
its Hotham's resort , so its Hotham's rules
either except it or go where your chains are excepted
Hey genius,
Have you looked at your signature recently.
rolleyes.gif


We are protesting a ridiculous descision, made without due process. Exercising our Freedom of Speech and our Rite to Protest.

WAKE UP !!! You can spout all your support for Hotham RMB. But use facts. Not Oppression.


Oh and BTW, as for Guru whom you are supporting. Sounds like a guy who'd do well on the Hotham RMB.
&quot;Close all dicussion. We have made decision. Don't care we have no supporting documentation. Suck it up.&quot;

True Democracy.
rolleyes.gif
 
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Charlie

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As long as you accept (except?) that freedom of speech does not extend to shouting &quot;FIRE&quot; in a crowded movie theatre!
Irrelevant, I know, I just like quoting that
Feel free to use it Astro!
(BTW, it's 'right', not 'rite' in the context you used!)
 

DbSki

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She has engaged in a &quot;witch hunt&quot; on ST for eons and quite obviously has a &quot;vendetta&quot; against him.
She is a commercial competitor of his WRT chains and that is all you need to know.
 

Charlie

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AstroSki66 said:
Oh and BTW, as for Guru whom you are supporting. Sounds like a guy who'd do well on the Hotham RMB.
&quot;Close all dicussion. We have made decision. Don't care we have no supporting documentation. Suck it up.&quot;

True Democracy.
rolleyes.gif

You wouldn't expect to have much in the way of documentation re discarded chains on the road
But we are getting more and more rhetorical evidence posted in this thread!
 
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Astro66

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Charlie said:
As long as you accept (except?) that freedom of speech does not extend to shouting &quot;FIRE&quot; in a crowded movie theatre!
Irrelevant, I know, I just like quoting that
Feel free to use it Astro!
(BTW, it's 'right', not 'rite' in the context you used!)
2 Things.

1) I have not screamed anything other than provide a single shred of properly documented evidence that properly fitted spider chains fall off. This is what I would require before implementing a total technology ban.

2) I meant Rite. Not Right. But yes, I meant &quot;Rite of Protest&quot;, not &quot;Right to Protest.&quot;
Rite: A formal act or procedure prescribed or customary in religious ceremonies.
 
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Charlie

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So this is a religious crusade of yours?

Re documentary evidence
If there are reports of chains falling off and potentially causing damage, is it not reasonable to ban them until a properly documented report (In triplicate) is produced?
 

qwog

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The biggest problem is not spider chains (trademark name), it is the drivers attitude. eg &quot;Got &quot;chains&quot; on therefore I am invincible&quot;, and my concern growing now is the push of &quot;Got snowtyres on therefore I am invincible&quot;

The main wheel that causes problems is the one in front of the idiot in the drivers seat. Teach it properly and the rest will follow.
 

teckel

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DbSki said:
She has engaged in a &quot;witch hunt&quot; on ST for eons and quite obviously has a &quot;vendetta&quot; against him.
She is a commercial competitor of his WRT chains and that is all you need to know.
I presume by 'she' you mean me. No vendetta. No witch hunt. I just call bullshit when I see it. I don't see him as a competitor at all. He sells roofracks and tyres and chains. I hire skis and toboggans and chains. I deal direct with the importer of Konig, and I've spoken with him about this matter. However, I won't divulge what he said (that would be unprofessional). Let's just say I know I'm right.
 
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Astro66

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Charlie said:
So this is a religious crusade of yours?
I’ll ignore the religious stupidity.

Charlie said:
Re documentary evidence
If there are reports of chains falling off and potentially causing damage, is it not reasonable to ban them until a properly documented report (In triplicate) is produced?
If Hotham was pioneering the technology, then yes of course, stop the trial.
But this technology has been used for years, worldwide, with no issues and no bans.

Many peeps have invested thousands of dollars in vehicles and technology. To just come out and retrospectively ban all use is an absolute travesty, and I will not tolerate it, in Australia. Many vehicles have no alternative.

To perform this action, I would expect more than a Dad and Dave discussion. I would expect the incidents investigated and reported. Why ?? 2 reasons.

1) It could be just one brand of spider chain that is a problem, so only that brand requires exclusion. Meaning those who must use spider chains have an option.
2) Being a new technology, the chains may not being fitted correctly, so just education and competency testing is required, funded by the peeps who want to use Spider chains.

DUE PROCESS !!! Look it up in the dictionary, seeing you are so concerned about grammar and spelling.
rolleyes.gif
 
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FlatLander

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AstroSki66 To perform this action said:
laugh.gif


If you want more than a &quot;Dad and Dave discussion&quot; why are you on yr pedestal here
laugh.gif
take it up with those you have a grievance with

As I have said before I don't think your rantings here will gain much traction with those that matter, as they don't read or care what is discussed here
 
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Astro66

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laugh.gif
Listen bro.
I'm about 10 chess moves ahead of you. You have no clue.
laugh.gif

Tell you what. You stick to fighting your battles your way
And I'll do what I do. Whatever that may be.
laugh.gif
 
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FlatLander

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AstroSki66 said:
laugh.gif
Listen bro.
I'm about 10 chess moves ahead of you. You have no clue.
laugh.gif

Tell you what. You stick to fighting your battles your way
And I'll do what I do. Whatever that may be.
laugh.gif

Nah its all good astro, its just you make me laugh
 
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ODNT

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AstroSki66 said:
ODNT said:
I'm with Guru
Hotham's not concerned about losing market share
I do feel for those with alternative chains however
its Hotham's resort , so its Hotham's rules
either except it or go where your chains are excepted
Hey genius,
Have you looked at your signature recently.
rolleyes.gif


We are protesting a ridiculous descision, made without due process. Exercising our Freedom of Speech and our Rite to Protest.

WAKE UP !!! You can spout all your support for Hotham RMB. But use facts. Not Oppression.


Oh and BTW, as for Guru whom you are supporting. Sounds like a guy who'd do well on the Hotham RMB.
&quot;Close all dicussion. We have made decision. Don't care we have no supporting documentation. Suck it up.&quot;

True Democracy.
rolleyes.gif

Dude calm down, I'm not supporting anyone
I'm simply saying a decision has been made by those who have the authority to do so
I see it like this, all businesses offer different products &amp; services
you are free to take that offer up or reject it
&amp; regards to freedom of speech, it goes both ways
no person or business likes getting dictated too
we all have the right to make choices
some NH resorts don't allow snowboards, that's there right &amp; business model
With chains Hotham will have to live with the consequences of its actions if any
 
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Yardsale

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Seriously, what are the RMB going to do?

a) Hear the reports of problems from their own staff, and think &quot;oh, better do a study on that, but let people still use the traction devices&quot;. In the mean time there is a &quot;risk&quot; of a crash. Should the victim become aware of the known problems, they, or their insurer, would then sue the RMB over negligence.

b) Ban the use of the offending traction devices. If there is an outcry and a significant risk to business, run an experiment and figure out how to make these work. Of course, you'd want the cost of the experimenting to be less than the opportunity cost foregone.

It's not like the RMB is a totalitarian regime of some kind - it's just another board of directors balancing the needs of various stakeholders.
 

Astro66

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ODNT said:
Dude calm down, I'm not supporting anyone
Phaaaark....................... I'm really not dealing with rocket scientists, am I. Do you guys even read what you've previously posted.
ODNT said:
I'm with Guru
And this is what you supported.
the_guru said:
Look how smart I think I am. Blah, blah, blah.
Get over it folks.
Mods shut this one down as well please....
The chain discussion is getting very old. You need to carry diamond pattern chains at Mt Hotham. (Full stop).
Mt hotham would have developed to accomodate the average person years ago if they got their heads out of their arses.
A clear attempt to prevent discussion of the RMB's decision. &lt;shakes head&gt;

Bro, time to change sig. Here's a suggestion.

&quot;Allow democracy and free speech, if it suits me. Otherwise Oppression Rules.&quot;
 
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Astro66

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Yardsale said:
Seriously, what are the RMB going to do?
Like everyone else in my life, I expect them to do their job properly.

Don't take shortcuts.

And don't circumvent DUE PROCESS, just because it's convenient and covers their butts at the expense of others.
 
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ODNT

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AstroSki66 said:
ODNT said:
Dude calm down, I'm not supporting anyone
Phaaaark....................... I'm really not dealing with rocket scientists, am I. Do you guys even read what you've previously posted.
ODNT said:
I'm with Guru
And this is what you supported.
the_guru said:
Look how smart I think I am. Blah, blah, blah.
Get over it folks.
Mods shut this one down as well please....
The chain discussion is getting very old. You need to carry diamond pattern chains at Mt Hotham. (Full stop).
Mt hotham would have developed to accomodate the average person years ago if they got their heads out of their arses.
A clear attempt to prevent discussion of the RMB's decision. &lt;shakes head&gt;

Bro, time to change sig. Here's a suggestion.

&quot;Allow democracy and free speech, if it suits me. Otherwise Oppression Rules.&quot;

Dude you assume too much
I agreed with Guru as in the thread has run its course
your questioning my motivations because your just bitter
&amp; for what ,
over some fkn snow chains
how ridiculous
if that bothers you , you don't like skiing enough
good luck with it all
 
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teckel

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FlatLander said:
As I have said before I don't think your rantings here will gain much traction with those that matter, as they don't read or care what is discussed here
Now this is where you are wrong. They do read this forum on a very regular basis. However, I don't think they would be taking much notice of Astro, because of his lack of knowledge of almost anything to do with chains, combined with his lack of knowledge of the Hotham road. This doesn't mean that those who applaud the RMB's decision have it all their own way. There are plenty of other very valid opposing viewpoints including those of chain manufacturers which should be taken into account by the RMB. (and it would seem to date, that they have not been considered)
 
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Hucky

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From what I've read the Board has made a rash decision IMO. If they are so concerned for people's safety I believe they should focus on improving road safety. A few ideas:

1. Display an updated sign of vehicle accidents that have occurred since the start of winter. This would help educate people on the dangers of the road. (picked up this idea from Revelstoke where they had the number of people who inadvertently spent a night out in the snow whilst skiing/boarding in the resort. It's a BIG place!)
2. Have signs telling drivers to pull over at safe locations if they are holding others up. I've seen people get very frustrated from slow drivers and eventually try to overtake in high risk areas.
3. Improve snow clearing. From my experiences, they are either incompetent or are lacking resources. How could we be driving home at 3pm on a sunday 2 years ago and be bottoming out just past the bridge, when it hasn't snowed? (they were scraping the wall.... at peak hour!!! why then?? and why didn't they have a snow clearer right behind it?)
4. Have signs telling drivers to keep their distance to the car ahead to 3 or 4 seconds when there is snow or ice on the road. I was involved in the 15 car pileup last winter. We were able to avoid the car in front of us because we maintained a safe distance from the car in front of us. The uneducated driver who was tailgating us slid past us and joined the carnage!

At the end of the day it seems Hotham has taken the cheap and easy way out by putting a blanket ban on spiderchains.

Fortunately for myself and my snow buddies the decision doesn't affect us as our vehicles don't need spider chains. For those of you who it does affect I implore you to visit another resort....more pow for me! :) mwhahahaha!!.....strokes cat
 

Astro66

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teckel said:
FlatLander said:
As I have said before I don't think your rantings here will gain much traction with those that matter, as they don't read or care what is discussed here
Now this is where you are wrong. They do read this forum on a very regular basis. However, I don't think they would be taking much notice of Astro, because of his lack of knowledge of almost anything to do with chains, combined with his lack of knowledge of the Hotham road.
laugh.gif
Nice uppercut from Teckel. My chin's hurting. But I'll soldier on.

laugh.gif
Love it.
thumbsup.gif
 
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