Diamond pattern chains at Hotham

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Astro66

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Rover said:
how often do you ski Hotham astro?
I've answered that about 5 times. You snooze you loose.
wink.gif
 
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Astro66

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ODNT said:
AstroSki66 said:
A clear attempt to prevent discussion of the RMB's decision. <shakes head>

Bro, time to change sig. Here's a suggestion.

"Allow democracy and free speech, if it suits me. Otherwise Oppression Rules."

Dude you assume too much
I agreed with Guru as in the thread has run its course
your questioning my motivations because your just bitter
& for what ,
over some fkn snow chains
how ridiculous
if that bothers you , you don't like skiing enough
good luck with it all
Another attempt to close the discussion.
rolleyes.gif


I need a new dictionary. The definition of "Freedom of Speech", must have changed recently.
 
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Astro66

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Anyway, back on topic.

Thanks for your input Hucky. I agree that there were many paths the RMB could have taken . They choose the lazy and arrogant one.
 

Yardsale

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AstroSki66 said:
Yardsale said:
Seriously, what are the RMB going to do?
Like everyone else in my life, I expect them to do their job properly.

Don't take shortcuts.

So I had two points which I addressed. Those two points are the reason why the ban was undertaken and the board are competent in their action AND displaying correct due process.
 
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Yardsale

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Hucky said:
1. Display an updated sign of vehicle accidents that have occurred since the start of winter. This would help educate people on the dangers of the road.

Agree but disagree. Those signs has been placed in many other locations - they have a negligable effect on incidents. You also have the flip side of wanting people to come to your hill. Any normal road authority would benefit from such signs scaring people off.

2. Have signs telling drivers to pull over at safe locations if they are holding others up. I've seen people get very frustrated from slow drivers and eventually try to overtake in high risk areas.

Much of that signage is the responsibility of vicroads, not the RMB.

3. Improve snow clearing. From my experiences, they are either incompetent or are lacking resources. How could we be driving home at 3pm on a sunday 2 years ago and be bottoming out just past the bridge, when it hasn't snowed? (they were scraping the wall.... at peak hour!!! why then?? and why didn't they have a snow clearer right behind it?)

Drive around it.

4. Have signs telling drivers to keep their distance to the car ahead to 3 or 4 seconds when there is snow or ice on the road.

There is enough of them on every other road in victoria.

The uneducated driver who was tailgating us slid past us and joined the carnage!

Stupidity - but pull over and let them pass. I have a few times, and two of those that zoomed past spun or ended up off the side. You check they are ok, and call th RMB.

Fortunately for myself and my snow buddies the decision doesn't affect us as our vehicles don't need spider chains. For those of you who it does affect I implore you to visit another resort....more pow for me! :) mwhahahaha!!.....strokes cat

Watch out, you'll be give them "I'm alright Jack" dressing down too.
 
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Astro66

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Yardsale said:
So I had two points which I addressed. Those two points are the reason why the ban was undertaken and the board are competent in their action AND displaying correct due process.
These blow-ins. Gotta post everything twice.
wink.gif


Let me explain how things happen in the real world.

Incident Report

Incident Set of Diamond Pattern Chains found on side of road.

Description of Incident Whilst out patrolling the GAR, a Hotham employee found a set of Diamond Pattern Chains that had detached from vehicle and found on side of road.

Employee investigated further finding that a hire place was renting worn chains.

Root Cause Analysis It is the opinion of Hotham RMB that a particular hire place was renting very old chains that had worn links. A link had failed causing chain to detach from tyre.

Actions RMB will report hire place to VIC roads for further disciplinary action.

PHOTO OF OFFENDING CHAINS PLACED HERE.

^^ = DUE PROCESS.

What happens in the Hothan RMB.

BOB "Hey Dave. I ran over a set of diamond pattern chains on the road"

DAVE "Phark Mate, lets tell the Hotham RMB, and get all Diamond Pattern Chains Banned"

BOB "Sounds like due process to me mate
thumbsup.gif
"

^^= LAZY, HILL BILLY JUCTICE
 
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ODNT

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AstroSki66 said:
ODNT said:
AstroSki66 said:
A clear attempt to prevent discussion of the RMB's decision. <shakes head>

Bro, time to change sig. Here's a suggestion.

"Allow democracy and free speech, if it suits me. Otherwise Oppression Rules."

Dude you assume too much
I agreed with Guru as in the thread has run its course
your questioning my motivations because your just bitter
& for what ,
over some fkn snow chains
how ridiculous
if that bothers you , you don't like skiing enough
good luck with it all
Another attempt to close the discussion.
rolleyes.gif


I need a new dictionary. The definition of "Freedom of Speech", must have changed recently.
dude you've had your say for weeks & weeks
go through the right channels & put it in a letter for those concerned
flogging a dead horse & verballing peeps here wont help your cause imo
 
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FlatLander

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teckel said:
FlatLander said:
As I have said before I don't think your rantings here will gain much traction with those that matter, as they don't read or care what is discussed here
Now this is where you are wrong. They do read this forum on a very regular basis. However, I don't think they would be taking much notice of Astro, because of his lack of knowledge of almost anything to do with chains, combined with his lack of knowledge of the Hotham road. This doesn't mean that those who applaud the RMB's decision have it all their own way. There are plenty of other very valid opposing viewpoints including those of chain manufacturers which should be taken into account by the RMB. (and it would seem to date, that they have not been considered)

Hi Tecks, not at Hotham they don't. Although I am sure if there was something defamatory said it would get back to them.

If the RMB's did acknowledge/support these forums then they would have a Rep on here clearing up any false info. I think the Hotham RMB did have someone on here in about 2004 (Official Hotham RMB Rep), made about 6 posts and then disappeared into the wilderness.
 
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Astro66

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ODNT said:
AstroSki66 said:
ODNT said:
AstroSki66 said:
A clear attempt to prevent discussion of the RMB's decision. <shakes head>

Bro, time to change sig. Here's a suggestion.

"Allow democracy and free speech, if it suits me. Otherwise Oppression Rules."

Dude you assume too much
I agreed with Guru as in the thread has run its course
your questioning my motivations because your just bitter
& for what ,
over some fkn snow chains
how ridiculous
if that bothers you , you don't like skiing enough
good luck with it all
Another attempt to close the discussion.
rolleyes.gif


I need a new dictionary. The definition of "Freedom of Speech", must have changed recently.
dude you've had your say for weeks & weeks
go through the right channels & put it in a letter for those concerned
flogging a dead horse & verballing peeps here wont help your cause imo
Thanks for the advice. But like in your sig. Freedom means I can choose to heed it or ignore it.

I'll let you guess what I choose.

But please, continue your campaign to get this thread closed. Because THAT is Freedom of Speech.

My only advice to you, so you don't come across as hypocritical. Is adjust your signature to suit your method of debate. That is the only point I'm trying to make, to you.
 
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ODNT

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Thanks I got your point
Now you say I'm being Hypocritical
So lets break it down
IMO Hotham or any other persons for that matter should have the right to make decisions however they see fit
However in your case your upset because Hotham made a decision it perceived to be in its own interests
but it didn't suit your needs
So then you'd like Hotham to justify its decision by providing evidence as to why such a decision was made
Is Hotham not allowed to have the freedom of choice ?
 
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teckel

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ODNT said:
IMO Hotham or any other persons for that matter should have the right to make decisions however they see fit
.................
So then you'd like Hotham to justify its decision by providing evidence as to why such a decision was made
Is Hotham not allowed to have the freedom of choice ?
Astro does have a point here. Hotham is not just 'any other persons', they are government appointed custodians of public land. Therefore, their freedom of choice must be limited to what is in the best interests of the public at large, not what will cover their asses best.
 
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FlatLander

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Hucky said:
From what I've read the Board has made a rash decision IMO. If they are so concerned for people's safety I believe they should focus on improving road safety. A few ideas:

1. Display an updated sign of vehicle accidents that have occurred since the start of winter. This would help educate people on the dangers of the road. (picked up this idea from Revelstoke where they had the number of people who inadvertently spent a night out in the snow whilst skiing/boarding in the resort. It's a BIG place!)
2. Have signs telling drivers to pull over at safe locations if they are holding others up. I've seen people get very frustrated from slow drivers and eventually try to overtake in high risk areas.
3. Improve snow clearing. From my experiences, they are either incompetent or are lacking resources. How could we be driving home at 3pm on a sunday 2 years ago and be bottoming out just past the bridge, when it hasn't snowed? (they were scraping the wall.... at peak hour!!! why then?? and why didn't they have a snow clearer right behind it?)
4. Have signs telling drivers to keep their distance to the car ahead to 3 or 4 seconds when there is snow or ice on the road. I was involved in the 15 car pileup last winter. We were able to avoid the car in front of us because we maintained a safe distance from the car in front of us. The uneducated driver who was tailgating us slid past us and joined the carnage!

At the end of the day it seems Hotham has taken the cheap and easy way out by putting a blanket ban on spiderchains.

Fortunately for myself and my snow buddies the decision doesn't affect us as our vehicles don't need spider chains. For those of you who it does affect I implore you to visit another resort....more pow for me! :) mwhahahaha!!.....strokes cat

All good points Hucky

Although, visitors travelling the GAR (and most other places) don't read signs. I mean how many signs would it take - 1 every 100 metres. I remember about 12 years ago a car drove off the edge (not intentionally, skidded on ice) near Danny's Lookout on opening weekend (Friday night). They went to the paper with their plight saying that VicRoads and Hotham resort should put up more signs to warn people that there may be ice. Well Heeelllo, they were travelling to an alpine resort, in winter and had passed about 15 signs warning of harards etc etc. But no they wanted more.

The RMB have no control over the Snow Clearing on the GAR. This is done be a VicRoads appointed contractor and kindly paid for by all Victorian taxpayers. I have no problem with the snow clearing. Your Resort Entry does not contribute to snow clearing on the GAR.
 
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ODNT

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teckel said:
ODNT said:
IMO Hotham or any other persons for that matter should have the right to make decisions however they see fit
.................
So then you'd like Hotham to justify its decision by providing evidence as to why such a decision was made
Is Hotham not allowed to have the freedom of choice ?
Astro does have a point here. Hotham is not just 'any other persons', they are government appointed custodians of public land. Therefore, their freedom of choice must be limited to what is in the best interests of the public at large, not what will cover their asses best.

So as custodians they don't need to have public liability insurance & they cant make there own business decisions unless they get the authority of the VIC government .. yes?
sounds complicated
 
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Astro66

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ODNT said:
Thanks I got your point
Now you say I'm being Hypocritical
So lets break it down
IMO Hotham or any other persons for that matter should have the right to make decisions however they see fit
However in your case your upset because Hotham made a decision it perceived to be in its own interests
but it didn't suit your needs
So then you'd like Hotham to justify its decision by providing evidence as to why such a decision was made
Is Hotham not allowed to have the freedom of choice ?
Finally he joins the discussion.
laugh.gif


I have the Freedom to choose my Life Choices.

When there is a decision that impacts my family, My freedom also answers to the impact upon them. And I make my decisions accordingly.

If one of my decisions impacts one family member adversely, I would make sure I followed due process before making that decision. What I won't do is just rush in and make a decision that covers my butt, just because I'm too lazy to do the work to come to the conclusion correctly.

I would expect the same of any Governing Body in Australia, that manages Public Assets. Including Hotham RMB and including the one I work for.
 
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ODNT

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The RMB may think they haven't impacted a majority , only a small minority
& some of that minority may conform
a small amount may wait until they upgrade the next family car to avoid the cost inconvenience
I'm sure they were aware of this before the announcement
imo its very hard to challenge an organisation when they make a decision ( in its opinion ) based on a safety issue
normally its the other way around
 

Hucky

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Yardsale said:
Hucky said:
1. Display an updated sign of vehicle accidents that have occurred since the start of winter. This would help educate people on the dangers of the road.

Agree but disagree. Those signs has been placed in many other locations - they have a negligable effect on incidents. You also have the flip side of wanting people to come to your hill. Any normal road authority would benefit from such signs scaring people off.
OK the signs may not work. But you can't tell me they're worried about scaring people off when they've just done that by banning spider chains. Already in this thread people have said they won't be visiting Hotham after this decision.

Yardsale said:
Hucky said:
2. Have signs telling drivers to pull over at safe locations if they are holding others up. I've seen people get very frustrated from slow drivers and eventually try to overtake in high risk areas.

Much of that signage is the responsibility of vicroads, not the RMB.
Then lobby vicroads to add these signs. Clearly vicroads is unaware of this important issue, unlike the regular users of this road (I am one of many to raise this exact same issue on this forum).

Yardsale said:
Hucky said:
3. Improve snow clearing. From my experiences, they are either incompetent or are lacking resources. How could we be driving home at 3pm on a sunday 2 years ago and be bottoming out just past the bridge, when it hasn't snowed? (they were scraping the wall.... at peak hour!!! why then?? and why didn't they have a snow clearer right behind it?)

Drive around it.
Tried that. But as i said it was a sunday....people were coming up the mountain for the week so we had to stay in the left hand lane. Although we were sliding into the right hand lane because we didn't have chains on! And before you ask, NO, the sign at the day carpark did NOT say chains were required.

Yardsale said:
Hucky said:
4. Have signs telling drivers to keep their distance to the car ahead to 3 or 4 seconds when there is snow or ice on the road.

There is enough of them on every other road in victoria.

Fair enough. Some people just don't want to learn do they?

Yardsale said:
Hucky said:
The uneducated driver who was tailgating us slid past us and joined the carnage!

Stupidity - but pull over and let them pass. I have a few times, and two of those that zoomed past spun or ended up off the side. You check they are ok, and call th RMB.

I always let people past when it is SAFE to do so. On this occasion it wasn't because visibility was low and there was nowhere to pull over due to the heavy snowfalls. Whilst waiting for the pileup to clear we rang the police and spoke to the driver behind us. We also told him to get back in his car so he didn't get hit by another car but he just ignored us. A minute later a Ford Territory emerged from the fog behind us and uncontrollably slid right by our vehicles at a a speed of 20-30kph. Fortunately he didn't hit any of the people standing around chatting. This incident seems to confirm your views about signs: Some people are stupid and signs aren't going to change their behaviour. Why else would they stand around at the bottom of an icy hill with very low visibility? There was NO WAY i was getting out of the car.

Yardsale said:
Hucky said:
Fortunately for myself and my snow buddies the decision doesn't affect us as our vehicles don't need spider chains. For those of you who it does affect I implore you to visit another resort....more pow for me! :) mwhahahaha!!.....strokes cat

Watch out, you'll be give them "I'm alright Jack" dressing down too.
 
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Yardsale

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AstroSki66 said:
Yardsale said:
So I had two points which I addressed. Those two points are the reason why the ban was undertaken and the board are competent in their action AND displaying correct due process.
These blow-ins. Gotta post everything twice.
wink.gif

I still see you have not address my two points about what a board is bound to do.
All I can see is a bait and switch argument.

Let me explain how things happen in the real world.
Incident Report
Incident Set of Diamond Pattern Chains found on side of road.

Lol, so you think you should be able to view the an incident report between the resort management/road clearers and another person. What business is it of yours. Better still, what basis do you have that these things don't exist.... you'd never know.
 
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Yardsale

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Hucky said:
OK the signs may not work. But you can't tell me they're worried about scaring people off when they've just done that by banning spider chains. Already in this thread people have said they won't be visiting Hotham after this decision.

Yep, and that's the problem with putting the ban in.

Yardsale said:
Then lobby vicroads to add these signs. Clearly vicroads is unaware of this important issue, unlike the regular users of this road (I am one of many to raise this exact same issue on this forum).

Absolutely agree. Much of of the funding for the GAR is assigned rebuilding the road at the moment. It would be much better off as part of a campaign for mountain roads. In order to get that to work, you need political imperative.

Yardsale said:
Tried that. But as i said it was a sunday....people were coming up the mountain for the week so we had to stay in the left hand lane.

Yeah, gets like that sometimes. Probably a poor choice of time to clear that snow.

Yardsale said:
I always let people past when it is SAFE to do so. On this occasion it wasn't because visibility was low and there was nowhere to pull over due to the heavy snowfalls.

Agree totally. No way you should put yourself in danger!

Some people are stupid and signs aren't going to change their behaviour. Why else would they stand around at the bottom of an icy hill with very low visibility? There was NO WAY i was getting out of the car.

This is the thing I don't think Astro quite gets. Stuff like this happens all the time in poor weather. You don't wait for incident reports and due process, you act. Unfortunately the resort staff have to get out of the car and deal with this kind of stuff all the time.
 
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Hucky

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FlatLander said:
All good points Hucky

Although, visitors travelling the GAR (and most other places) don't read signs. I mean how many signs would it take - 1 every 100 metres. I remember about 12 years ago a car drove off the edge (not intentionally, skidded on ice) near Danny's Lookout on opening weekend (Friday night). They went to the paper with their plight saying that VicRoads and Hotham resort should put up more signs to warn people that there may be ice. Well Heeelllo, they were travelling to an alpine resort, in winter and had passed about 15 signs warning of harards etc etc. But no they wanted more.

The RMB have no control over the Snow Clearing on the GAR. This is done be a VicRoads appointed contractor and kindly paid for by all Victorian taxpayers. I have no problem with the snow clearing. Your Resort Entry does not contribute to snow clearing on the GAR.

I somewhat agree with your point about the signs. Although I would still like to see ones advising slow drivers to pull over.

In regards to the snow clearing...Surely the RMB has some sway with the snow clearing. For example, if they were not happy with the VicRoads contractor's efforts then they would make their displeasure known. Just like they are concerned enough about visitors safety to partner with Police and VicRoads to ban spider chains.

But alas, it seems they are satisfied with the contractor! (I'm guessing they stay on mountain!) IMO the snow clearing is poor compared to other resorts. I regularly stay in Harrietville and when leaving at about 6:30 to catch first lifts the road has not always been cleared.
 
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Astro66

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@ Yardy: I've answered your two points. Before any action. All incidents should be investigated and reported.
Yardsale said:
Lol, so you think you should be able to view the an incident report between the resort management/road clearers and another person. What business is it of yours. Better still, what basis do you have that these things don't exist.... you'd never know.
So what your saying here is, Hotham have investigated and reported all these incidents internally. Came to the conclusion that Spider Chains were far too dangerous to use. But are not going to share the findings and save lives everywhere else in the world, where Spider chains are used, because it's none of our business.
rofl.gif


Bro, whose the joker now.
laugh.gif
 
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FlatLander

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Yardsale said:
AstroSki66 said:
Yardsale said:
So I had two points which I addressed. Those two points are the reason why the ban was undertaken and the board are competent in their action AND displaying correct due process.
These blow-ins. Gotta post everything twice.
wink.gif

I still see you have not address my two points about what a board is bound to do.
All I can see is a bait and switch argument.

Let me explain how things happen in the real world.
Incident Report
Incident Set of Diamond Pattern Chains found on side of road.

Lol, so you think you should be able to view the an incident report between the resort management/road clearers and another person. What business is it of yours. Better still, what basis do you have that these things don't exist.... you'd never know.

spot on Yardy, and as usual cool calm and collected
thumbsup.gif
 
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Astro66

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FlatLander said:
Yardsale said:
Lol, so you think you should be able to view the an incident report between the resort management/road clearers and another person. What business is it of yours. Better still, what basis do you have that these things don't exist.... you'd never know.
spot on Yardy, and as usual cool calm and collected
thumbsup.gif
Must try that in my job.

SYDNEY WATER RATE PAYER Why did you deny me access to safe drinking water.

ASTRO How do you know, I did it. I have no documentation. Oh, and if I did, it's none of your business.

laugh.gif
No wonder Hotham RMB can act so recklessly. With this sort of support crew. No accountability. <shakes head>
 
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FlatLander

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Astro you just seem so angry and worked up about it. The RMB can act as they do if they believe its in the best interest of their visitors safety. They don't need to consult you, me or anybody for that matter. All your rantings here have not persuaded them to change this rule, although the email Tecks submitted on your behalf still may have some effect.
giggling.png


Now,
1. Gillard did not consult me about introducing a carbon tax!,
2. Darren Lehmann did not consult me about dropping Cowan for the second test (although had he have done so I would have given him the nod),
3. VicRoads did not consult me about dropping the speed limit on the GAR to 80km/h through Ovens for winter (I drive this road every day so this does impact me, and I believe I could have offered expert advice),
4. NE Water did not heed my opinion re the location of off-stream storage on the Ovens River near Bright

Just some examples where things have been implemented without due consultation and consideration. Sometimes its just the way it goes.
 
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main street

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FlatLander said:
Astro you just seem so angry and worked up about it. The RMB can act as they do if they believe its in the best interest of their visitors safety. They don't need to consult you, me or anybody for that matter. All your rantings here have not persuaded them to change this rule, although the email Tecks submitted on your behalf still may have some effect.
giggling.png


Now,
1. Gillard did not consult me about introducing a carbon tax!, No surprises there,... she didn't consult anybody so don't feel left out. - Did cost her her job though.
2. Darren Lehmann did not consult me about dropping Cowan for the second test (although had he have done so I would have given him the nod), Dude,... it's cricket.
3. VicRoads did not consult me about dropping the speed limit on the GAR to 80km/h through Ovens for winter (I drive this road every day so this does impact me, and I believe I could have offered expert advice), Ah,.... now we get to something with a small degree of substance. I'd be willing to bet there will be studies & reports on the public record somewhere that establish a rigor for the decision
4. NE Water did not heed my opinion re the location of off-stream storage on the Ovens River near Bright See above #3 ,..... + ,... Maybe your opinion sucked ?
wink.gif


Just some examples where things have been implemented without due consultation and consideration. Sometimes its just the way it goes.

smile.gif
 
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main street

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Oh,.... By the way.

The above post was made & implemented without due consultation and consideration.

That's just the way it goes sometimes.

tongue.gif
 
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FlatLander

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main street said:
FlatLander said:
Now,
1. Gillard did not consult me about introducing a carbon tax!, No surprises there,... she didn't consult anybody so don't feel left out. - Did cost her her job though.
2. Darren Lehmann did not consult me about dropping Cowan for the second test (although had he have done so I would have given him the nod), Dude,... it's cricket.
3. VicRoads did not consult me about dropping the speed limit on the GAR to 80km/h through Ovens for winter (I drive this road every day so this does impact me, and I believe I could have offered expert advice), Ah,.... now we get to something with a small degree of substance. I'd be willing to bet there will be studies & reports on the public record somewhere that establish a rigor for the decision
4. NE Water did not heed my opinion re the location of off-stream storage on the Ovens River near Bright See above #3 ,..... + ,... Maybe your opinion sucked ?
wink.gif


Just some examples where things have been implemented without due consultation and consideration. Sometimes its just the way it goes.

smile.gif

very good MS
laugh.gif


But...it may only be cricket to you, it completely affects my mood for the next 5 days (although given the way the aussies are playing, maybe only 3 days)

also point 3 above - I agree there probably will be, although they didn't consult me, and I am fairly sure they didn't consult Subaru. Although the decision still affects me. The decision is probably based on "possible frost/ice patches", now I have an AWD, and I am aware there may be ice on the road, so I should be OK to travel at normal speed before restrictions (possibly), yet the reg is based on lowest common denominator!!

4. above - Haha yes quite possibly as they didn't feel it would fit in the orifice I suggested.
 
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FlatLander

Addicted
May 18, 2002
686
184
113
main street said:
Oh,.... By the way.

The above post was made & implemented without due consultation and consideration.

That's just the way it goes sometimes.

tongue.gif

I feel totally betrayed and let down
sick.gif
 
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dossa5

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jul 2, 2009
1,458
409
263
Ovens Valley N.E Vico
main street said:
FlatLander said:
Astro you just seem so angry and worked up about it. The RMB can act as they do if they believe its in the best interest of their visitors safety. They don't need to consult you, me or anybody for that matter. All your rantings here have not persuaded them to change this rule, although the email Tecks submitted on your behalf still may have some effect.
giggling.png


Now,
1. Gillard did not consult me about introducing a carbon tax!, No surprises there,... she didn't consult anybody so don't feel left out. - Did cost her her job though.
2. Darren Lehmann did not consult me about dropping Cowan for the second test (although had he have done so I would have given him the nod), Dude,... it's cricket.
3. VicRoads did not consult me about dropping the speed limit on the GAR to 80km/h through Ovens for winter (I drive this road every day so this does impact me, and I believe I could have offered expert advice), Ah,.... now we get to something with a small degree of substance. I'd be willing to bet there will be studies & reports on the public record somewhere that establish a rigor for the decision
4. NE Water did not heed my opinion re the location of off-stream storage on the Ovens River near Bright See above #3 ,..... + ,... Maybe your opinion sucked ?
wink.gif


Just some examples where things have been implemented without due consultation and consideration. Sometimes its just the way it goes.

smile.gif

Oh you forgot about the huge water treatment/water storage plant/buildings in Freeburgh that have already been put up for tender without informing local residents of this monster......... off topic sorry but you may need chains to enter.
 
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FlatLander

Addicted
May 18, 2002
686
184
113
dossa5 said:
main street said:
FlatLander said:
Astro you just seem so angry and worked up about it. The RMB can act as they do if they believe its in the best interest of their visitors safety. They don't need to consult you, me or anybody for that matter. All your rantings here have not persuaded them to change this rule, although the email Tecks submitted on your behalf still may have some effect.
giggling.png


Now,
1. Gillard did not consult me about introducing a carbon tax!, No surprises there,... she didn't consult anybody so don't feel left out. - Did cost her her job though.
2. Darren Lehmann did not consult me about dropping Cowan for the second test (although had he have done so I would have given him the nod), Dude,... it's cricket.
3. VicRoads did not consult me about dropping the speed limit on the GAR to 80km/h through Ovens for winter (I drive this road every day so this does impact me, and I believe I could have offered expert advice), Ah,.... now we get to something with a small degree of substance. I'd be willing to bet there will be studies & reports on the public record somewhere that establish a rigor for the decision
4. NE Water did not heed my opinion re the location of off-stream storage on the Ovens River near Bright See above #3 ,..... + ,... Maybe your opinion sucked ?
wink.gif


Just some examples where things have been implemented without due consultation and consideration. Sometimes its just the way it goes.

smile.gif

Oh you forgot about the huge water treatment/water storage plant/buildings in Freeburgh that have already been put up for tender without informing local residents of this monster......... off topic sorry but you may need chains to enter.

Astro.. hold the phone...I can feel a conspiracy theory coming on. Maybe Hotham RMB is in charge of NE Water as well
eek.gif
 
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teckel

"I'm not a cat"
Ski Pass
Oct 16, 2004
50,770
25,145
1,515
Narbethong, Vic
www.mysticmountainsskihire.com.au
main street said:
[quote1. Gillard did not consult me about introducing a carbon tax!, No surprises there,... she didn't consult anybody so don't feel left out. - Did cost her her job though. Maybe this will cost the RMB a few jobs?2. Darren Lehmann did not consult me about dropping Cowan for the second test (although had he have done so I would have given him the nod), Dude,... it's cricket. What do you know or care about cricket. You're a Canuk now.3. VicRoads did not consult me about dropping the speed limit on the GAR to 80km/h through Ovens for winter (I drive this road every day so this does impact me, and I believe I could have offered expert advice), Ah,.... now we get to something with a small degree of substance. I'd be willing to bet there will be studies & reports on the public record somewhere that establish a rigor for the decision Tried those signs here. People don't think it applies to them
mrbang.gif


Just some examples where things have been implemented without due consultation and consideration. Sometimes its just the way it goes.

smile.gif
[/quote] How many colours can I use?
 
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Xstaff

Hard Yards
Jul 19, 2006
351
1
66
55
Mornington Peninsula
GURGE !!!!

DELETE !!!

GET RID OFF !!

REMOVE THREAD !!!!

END NOW !!!

I bet Astro you are one of those Albert Park protestors still protesting and whinging and chaining yourself to trees 10 years after the race begun....

I mean REALLY !!!!
 

main street

Doing what I want.
Ski Pass
Jul 11, 2006
74,048
17,410
3,000
Kelowna, BC
Xstaff said:
<span style="text-decoration: line-through">GURGE !!!!</span> Purge

DELETE !!!

GET RID<span style="text-decoration: line-through"> OFF </span>!! OF

REMOVE THREAD !!!!

END NOW !!!

I bet Astro you are one of those Albert Park <span style="text-decoration: line-through">protestors</span> protesters still protesting and whinging and chaining yourself to trees 10 years after the race begun....

I mean REALLY !!!!

Excessive use of capitals

Poor spelling.

5/10.

Plus,.... No one is forcing you to read it.

tongue.gif
 
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Yardsale

Part of the Furniture
May 22, 2001
12,538
286
713
50
Melbourne
AstroSki66 said:
laugh.gif
No wonder Hotham RMB can act so recklessly. With this sort of support crew. No accountability. &lt;shakes head&gt;

&quot;Reckless&quot; is where you do not act to mitigate risk.

In your example of the Sydney drinking water the process SHOULD be
1. Board hears there is a problem
2. Board orders and immediate steps to mitigate risk
3. Investigation then happens.

Your process of incident reports would have:
1. Board hears there is a problem.
2. Board orders an investigation
3. In the mean time people actually get poisoned by the drinking water
4. Plant finally gets shut for maintenance when the source of the problem is identified.

In your case, the process gets in the way of the prevention and causes the negligence.
 
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Astro66

Still looking for a park in Thredbo
Ski Pass
Jul 27, 2009
19,179
17,719
813
Eastern Subs Syd
Yardsale said:
AstroSki66 said:
laugh.gif
No wonder Hotham RMB can act so recklessly. With this sort of support crew. No accountability. &lt;shakes head&gt;

&quot;Reckless&quot; is where you do not act to mitigate risk.

In your example of the Sydney drinking water the process SHOULD be
1. Board hears there is a problem
2. Board orders and immediate steps to mitigate risk
3. Investigation then happens.

Your process of incident reports would have:
1. Board hears there is a problem.
2. Board orders an investigation
3. In the mean time people actually get poisoned by the drinking water
4. Plant finally gets shut for maintenance when the source of the problem is identified.

In your case, the process gets in the way of the prevention and causes the negligence.
This actually happen.
What was done was a warning to boil water.

What we didn't do, is shut, everyone who was affected, water off.
rolleyes.gif
,

Then the incident was investigated and reported properly. Turned out everything was OK and it was just a instrument issue.

Which is what the RMB would probably find if they conducted a proper review. It's probably just a particular brand of Spider Chain that is at fault. And they are needlessly discriminating against everyone for no good reason.

The actual reason is pure laziness, arrogance and zero accountability on the part of Hotham RMB.
 
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Yardsale

Part of the Furniture
May 22, 2001
12,538
286
713
50
Melbourne
What is the equivalent of boiling water with these traction devices?

If they are the only thing that fits your vehicle, and there is no alternative - then there is no &quot;boil your water&quot; option.
 

Astro66

Still looking for a park in Thredbo
Ski Pass
Jul 27, 2009
19,179
17,719
813
Eastern Subs Syd
Yardsale said:
What is the equivalent of boiling water with these traction devices?

If they are the only thing that fits your vehicle, and there is no alternative - then there is no &quot;boil your water&quot; option.
A warning to check your spider chains prior to coming to the GAR. Because if they fall off you'll be fined.

Then investigate, what the true failure is.

But yes, this would involve effort. And the RMB don't do effort. They do Exclusion !!!
 
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Astro66

Still looking for a park in Thredbo
Ski Pass
Jul 27, 2009
19,179
17,719
813
Eastern Subs Syd
Xstaff said:
GURGE !!!!

DELETE !!!

GET RID OFF !!

REMOVE THREAD !!!!

END NOW !!!

I bet Astro you are one of those Albert Park protestors still protesting and whinging and chaining yourself to trees 10 years after the race begun....

I mean REALLY !!!!
I'm building quite a fan base.
wink.gif


I love The Band Rotunda near the south end of the Albert Park. Auckland is a beautiful city. Did they ban spider chains there as well ?
 
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Astro66

Still looking for a park in Thredbo
Ski Pass
Jul 27, 2009
19,179
17,719
813
Eastern Subs Syd
FlatLander said:
Astro you just seem so angry and worked up about it. The RMB can act as they do if they believe its in the best interest of their visitors safety. They don't need to consult you, me or anybody for that matter. All your rantings here have not persuaded them to change this rule, although the email Tecks submitted on your behalf still may have some effect.
I'm so angry. I'm ready to rip heads off.

But yes, hopefully Teckel and Hully's emails will do the job. Cause I can't be pharked.
laugh.gif


FlatLander said:
Now,
1. Gillard did not consult me about introducing a carbon tax!,
2. Darren Lehmann did not consult me about dropping Cowan for the second test (although had he have done so I would have given him the nod),
Maybe someone should start a thread to discuss Carbon Tax or Cricketing decisions.

Oh wait.............. Someone else has thought it a good idea, to talk about these issues, on this forum.

Wonder if they are being persecuted for daring to challenge a governing body's decision.
rolleyes.gif
 
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Astro66

Still looking for a park in Thredbo
Ski Pass
Jul 27, 2009
19,179
17,719
813
Eastern Subs Syd
Yardsale said:
My thought would be, offer to help them test it out on your car and be part of the solution Astro.
If Hotham RMB wish to offer me a set Spider chains. I'd gladly give them a run. Spider Spikes please.
biggrin.gif


And I'll produce a properly documented report on their success or failure. Would sure be a break from reporting how well Sydney Siders process poo.
wink.gif
 
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Astro66

Still looking for a park in Thredbo
Ski Pass
Jul 27, 2009
19,179
17,719
813
Eastern Subs Syd
Rover said:
Come on down to hotham this weekend Astro...and you might see what the real issues that the gar presents during a blizzard....
Bro, I eat blizzards.
tongue.gif
 
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teckel

"I'm not a cat"
Ski Pass
Oct 16, 2004
50,770
25,145
1,515
Narbethong, Vic
www.mysticmountainsskihire.com.au
I used to own a house about 200m from Albert Park, so I'm an expert on that
wink.gif
Sold it before the Big Pricks came along.
My (ex)house is also only about 100m from where the current Block series is, so I'm an expert on that too
outtahere.gif
.
 
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Rover

One of Us
Jun 20, 2003
2,544
42
198
51
Front Seat, left hand side
AstroSki66 said:
Rover said:
Come on down to hotham this weekend Astro...and you might see what the real issues that the gar presents during a blizzard....
Bro, I eat blizzards.
tongue.gif
That That might be the case....but I am sure it will be you stuck half way up crb with a thrown chain because you were spinning your wheels....as you have admitted to recklessly doing.....now you will be holding up a whole mountain of traffic....I will wave as I go past

I will
 
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Hothski

Hard Yards
Jul 4, 2011
100
50
98
39
Melbourne Victoria
Rover said:
I will wave as I go past

I will

Unfortunately you wont. That's because the road will be blocked by someone who thinks that he/she is more important than any regulations put forward.

In my world, I'd just call that being selfish.
 
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