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Do you need a transceiver in KNP?

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by fenrir, Jun 9, 2020.

?

Is a transceiver required?

  1. Yes, you need a beacon at all times.

    8 vote(s)
    25.8%
  2. No, a beacon is overkill.

    8 vote(s)
    25.8%
  3. Maybe, the day after a large amount (say > 60cm) falls all at once.

    15 vote(s)
    48.4%
  1. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    And bacon.
     
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  2. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well that’s a given.
     
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  3. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Dump the pineapple.
     
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  4. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    No spikey thing?
     
  5. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well that's what the post prandial poo tube is for!
     
  6. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Maybe a cactus.
     
  7. jonathanc

    jonathanc One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Isn't there evidence that AST1 makes you more likely to die in an avalanche?
     
  8. Endless_Winter

    Endless_Winter One of Us

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    The last 2 people to die in an avalanche in Australia were not wearing avalanche beacons. Not that it affected the outcome as they both rode the same slope at the same time.
     
  9. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sadly in that case beacons would have just hastened the police search.
     
  10. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    So, unfortunately Kunama Lodge, Blue Lake and Bogong.
    4 sad avi deaths.
    Anymore in Au?
     
  11. Rick Ross Da Boss

    Rick Ross Da Boss One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    What about cases where a beacon saved a sole in aus......?
     
  12. PiniPowPow

    PiniPowPow One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Some close calls at Thredbo and Stanleys over the past few years. Cant recall any companion rescues.
     
  13. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Or a "soul", if such a thing exists. A beacon would definitely help your mates to find the soles of the attached ski boots that can then be salvaged. I agree with @Team Weasel et al , a self-arrest device in hand is more likely to be applicable in oz. Even with an ice axe I still ended up hurtling down the side of Ruapehu to shatter both ankles. Think I'll get a couple of tele-whippets now that I feel able to go BC again. Watch out for boiler-plate! Try to avoid the rapid icy horizontal descent!
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Myazma

    Myazma One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Let alone any situation where they have actually been pulled out, switched to search mode and used in anger?
     
  15. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    A few at Hotham as well.
     
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  16. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I don’t think the stats are that simple. It’s been a while since I looked at this sort of data.

    You should have a better chance of being safer and more helpful to your mates if you do AST1 and more so with AST2.
     
    nfip likes this.
  17. jonathanc

    jonathanc One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    You're right - I found the article I had in mind:

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081201101153.htm
     
  18. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  19. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    :wave:
     
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  20. jonathanc

    jonathanc One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    It says you'll be even safer if you avoid water...
     
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  21. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    So take more beer?
     
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  22. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Humour aside studies like these should be part of AST1. They maybe, I dunno.

    AST courses are a good thing but they are only part of the story of staying safe.
     
  23. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sole also found that those who listed their primary motivation as "having fun" were seven times more likely to be involved in an avalanche incident than those with other motivations such as "social experiences," or "physical exercise."

    Uh oh......


    Phew!

    I like mixed company better generally. Though most of the "blokes" I travel with don't buy into the push (that I used to think was great in my 20-30s) which sometimes takes you into type 3-4 fun. Some of the girls do a bit though!
     
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  24. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes of course, get appropriate knowledge and as importantly or more even more so log up many hours in the backcountry in all conditions and making terrain observations.
    Sometimes though too much knowledge and not enough experience is a dangerous cocktail.
    Of course if you’ve got the avi gear, then don’t let others stop you taking it.
    My comments are based on the frequency of danger from avalanches in Australia.
    As a side note, I always wear a beacon in NZ BC and also at some NZ ski fields because of the higher risk of avi’s due to the terrain.
    276 people drowned in Australia in the year 18/19, only 4 have ever unfortunately died in avalanches.
     
  25. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    We can up those numbers!

    Those are rookie numbers!
     
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  26. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Its a bit like when you see people place more faith in their phone, than their own judgement.

    But then, maybe sometimes....
     
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  27. legend

    legend One of Us

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    Also one in Mt Field Tas in the late '70s
     
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  28. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Should count the one in Hip Check in the 90's I think, as it was a death caused by slide.
     
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  29. jonathanc

    jonathanc One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Maybe that's why there are so many people in the BC community who are very serious and like to tell you that you're doing it wrong? By avoiding fun they're just staying safe LOL
     
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  30. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    "having fun" is my whole reason for being. Im amazed Ive made it this far!
     
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  31. telenomore

    telenomore One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I was going to mention the Mt. Field avi death. I had a feeling it was the big 1981 snow fall year?
     
  32. kylep

    kylep Cage rattler Ski Pass: Gold

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    Strictly not allowed in NSW. What time is lock-out in the BC?
     
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  33. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Plus....do a first aid course. I've had to look after a mate with a severely broken neck (mountain biking) and a young lad we came across skiing on the nain range with a possibly broken neck and a few people with broken arms or collarbones, cuts, burns, epilepsy etc. Doing the senior course a few times over the years helped me look after them. A senior first aid course is about 6 hours of practical over two nights, a couple of hours of some home study with a questionairre /exam. Not much time for a lot of benefit IMO.
    Refreshing the CPR protocol with dummy practice is worth doing on its own. It changes occasionally. Very handy to know if a victim is not breathing/not breathing normally.
     
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  34. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Updated my First Aid last Thursday, all day course, very excellent.

    Also install the NSW emergency app and keep your phone charged.
     
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  35. Sage Oya

    Sage Oya Like the herb, lover of Pabst, cup ramen devotee Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just have to remember the tunes for CPR, either staying alive or another one bites the dust. Makes the compression timing easier :thumbs:
     
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  36. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    30:2 at normal counting pace should put you in the right rythmn.

    Love the new digital dummies with their visual led signalling and the Defib practice units.
     
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  37. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yes. It's a quick rate now. 100-120 per minute. Higher for kids and babies. Each one has to be deep enough too.
    Even if you don't do a course, read this.
    https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/how-to-perform-cpr
     
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  38. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Even if you don't read it, have a go anyway! It can give someone a chance where they have none if they aren't pumping oxygen around their body.
     
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  39. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yes. Getting to use a practice defib was good. For anyone who hasn't, don,t be apprehensive to use one. It tells you what to do though you may have to be brave anduse the included razor to shave off some chest hair on hairy people. Again, if you don't use it the chances of survival plummet. An avalanche transceiver with a defib function would be nice.
     
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  40. teleroo

    teleroo Lincoln Terns Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm a fan of OSM And. Open Street Map for Android. Very good functionality but of course with that comes a bit of a need to know what you are doing. Base maps come free but from memory I paid a few bucks for the NSW topo contours. Example screen shot from my config:


    If you go this route I'm happy to help set it up if you like.
     
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  41. No Training Heels

    No Training Heels First Runs

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    Transceiver?

    Big slopes OS; I carry transceiver, probe and shovel if not required.Can you guess my gear when out of bounds??

    (I've found having a sharp piolet strapped on your pack quickly stops rude frenchmen sneaking up behind you while queuing?)

    AU - I always carry shovel when BC.

    AU - Transceiver and probe are optional - dependent on recent snow dumps.

    A better question is: Are you AVI prepared? Can I find you? Can you find me? Could you dig me out after you find my body??)

    Or, do we really know where we are planning to go? Are those 25-40 degree slopes really as safe as they seem?

    Think about where you are going,
     
  42. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    And keep the phone in flight mode and tight against the body - both will preserve battery when remote and cold.
     
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  43. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Do this. If you have to bivvy.
     
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  44. buckwheat

    buckwheat One of Us

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    Another interesting question- where do you put your transceiver?

    I always wore it conventionally, until a nz ski guide reminded me it could be ripped off in an avvy. Unlikely while skiing of course but super easy if you are ascending with only your therms on. After that discussion i now keep it in my pants cargo pocket.

    Discuss!
     
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  45. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    As long as the cargo pocket can’t be ripped off in an avi due to there design.
    Some pants now have a specific beacon dedicated pocket.
     
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  46. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    p22!!

    https://issuu.com/nzad/docs/nzad_issue_one__may-june_2020___4_

    Bad things happen all the time, not sure there is a100% suitable solution.
     
  47. Bloke

    Bloke One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    You often hear this kind of comparison but as far as I can tell, it is mostly useless without a reliable denominator to accurately compare propensity. But such denominators are hard (impossible?) to estimate. Eg you'd need to know human hours per period spent swimming vs BC skiing. Not sure how you'd put that data together.
     
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  48. Bloke

    Bloke One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Same as you. I always end up with it on the outside once the layers come off and then say to myself 'hmm really need to address this...' nek minute doing it again...
     
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  49. Chaeron

    Chaeron A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    micro-chip?

    Love the fact that some BC gear comes with inbuilt searchability capacity - ‘useful’ for OS in-resort situations - but unfortunately not an option for Oz.

    https://recco.com/
     
    #99 Chaeron, Jun 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
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  50. blowfin

    blowfin One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Doing AST1 means you're probably entirely more likely to go out into the backcountry than you were before. False sense of security or otherwise. From there it's probably just a numbers game?