Culture Don't mention the war

cold wombat

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France was there.
France was certainly the first by a very long way, but it does depend somewhat on where you draw the line. The first "French" kingdom didn't appear till 1190, well into the latter half of the medieval period. Culturally it was still a really mixed bag. Maybe it still is. ;)
 
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cold wombat

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In English, please.

For heaven's sake, the Normans owed fealty to a thing called the king of France before they invaded England in 1066.

Are you talking about William, a descendent of the Vikings who invaded northern France and conquered the territory of Normandy (hence the Viking name)? The same Vikings who then offered fealty to the germanic Franks who were clinging tediously to power in what remained of the West Frankia kingdom?

Yes, it was the progenitor of modern day France, but it was not something we could reasonably call the nation state of France. It was not particularly united. Internal divisions & external influences were the rule rather than the exception.

Look, if you want to play semantics about this, find someone else. I've made my point. I have no need to argue it any further.
 

XTREMO

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Anyway back on topic. Had some crazy Germans as neighbours in Mallorca. They had their chav songs on repeat, including this recent gem. I'm 100% certain it'll feature heavily in Austria next apre-ski season.

Saufen! (Drinking) -
(or if you want lyrics on screen in Deutsch - )
 
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Charlie

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Anyway back on topic. Had some crazy Germans as neighbours in Mallorca. They had their chav songs on repeat, including this recent gem. I'm 100% certain it'll feature heavily in Austria next apre-ski season.

Saufen! (Drinking) -
(or if you want lyrics on screen in Deutsch - )
Amazing, a ventriloquist duck!
His lips were hardly moving
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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Oh ducks are cool...Team Bears had to have one on board for
IMG_1229.PNG
delicate operations behind National Park Lines....she is a good addition to the line up!
 
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KL.

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Are you talking about William, a descendant of the Vikings who invaded northern France and conquered the territory of Normandy (hence the Viking name)? The same Vikings who then offered fealty to the germanic Franks who were clinging tediously to power in what remained of the West Frankia kingdom?
is this why the nth & sth of france are so different and even why brittany exists.
 

cold wombat

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must be the gauls (asterisk and obelix) before the french. they ran out of magic potion.

The Gauls? They were Celts. They ran out of magic potion for sure. By the time the Franks invaded them, the Romans had largely destroyed their identity; their culture, language, religion & political structures had largely been overtaken and subsumed by what the Romans brought with them. Apart from some residual Celtic culture in Brittany that is.
 
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cold wombat

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But frankfurt definitely confuses me

Something of a clue stick isn't it!

Franks. France. Probably a coincidence.

You know very well it was no coincidence, but you are displaying quite astounding ignorance as to why. The kingdoms of the Germanic Franks were the forerunners to the modern states of both Germany and France. When the Germanic Frankish king Charlemagne's kingdom was divided between his grandsons, the Kingdom of West Frankia (still very much a part of the Carolingian dynasty) ruled much what we now call France (and some that isn't). They lent their name to their territories, in a not entirely dissimilar way to how an earlier Frank king gave his tribal name to his home city which we now call Frankfurt; for a time the capital of the Eastern Frank Kingdom. The origin of the name France is very much Germanic.

I suggest you either stop playing the idiot or complete your TAFE course in medieval European history, though I expect you'll do neither...
 

Bogong

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People have it mostly right about Brittany. The original Gauls in modern France were thoroughly Romanised during the 500 years of Roman rule and lost most of their native culture. Add in intra-empire migration by traders and a lot of colonisation by retired soldiers who were given free land after 20 years of service and the native Gaulish gene pool was heavily diluted. (Charlemagne's capital of Cologne got its name because it was originally founded as a colony for retired Roman soldiers.)

Now we enter the early middle ages, (late 400s to early 700s). Huge invasions of Britain from Netherlands, Germany and Denmark around the year 500. The native (and only partially Romanised) Brythonic Celts retreated into modern Wales, Cornwall and the Kingdom of Strathclyde (western Britain between Lancashire and Glasgow).

A fourth group of Brythonic Celtic refugees sailed away to a peninsula to the south of Britain and founded a kingdom called Brittany after their homeland. Their culture and language become dominant in Brittany. (The thoroughly Romanised, partly mixed race population who lived there before the Britons arrived had little (if any) Gaulic Celtic identity left and almost none of their Gaulic language.)

That's why the modern languages of Welsh and Bretton sound so similar, because Brittany was founded by people we would call Welsh, not by Gauls, not by Romans and not by the Germanic Frankish tribe who eventually became the French.

* History pedant mode off.*
 

cold wombat

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... and German grammar makes my head really hurt. :cry_ubb:

(BTW, my previous post was a shortened and simplified version of what I actually wanted to write. :nerd_ubb: )

Almost any post about European history or culture will be shorter and simpler than it could be. Culture is not static. It never has been & never will be.
 
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Legs Akimbo

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Something of a clue stick isn't it!



You know very well it was no coincidence, but you are displaying quite astounding ignorance as to why. The kingdoms of the Germanic Franks were the forerunners to the modern states of both Germany and France. When the Germanic Frankish king Charlemagne's kingdom was divided between his grandsons, the Kingdom of West Frankia (still very much a part of the Carolingian dynasty) ruled much what we now call France (and some that isn't). They lent their name to their territories, in a not entirely dissimilar way to how an earlier Frank king gave his tribal name to his home city which we now call Frankfurt; for a time the capital of the Eastern Frank Kingdom. The origin of the name France is very much Germanic.

I suggest you either stop playing the idiot or complete your TAFE course in medieval European history, though I expect you'll do neither...
Quite. France existed.
 

cold wombat

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Quite. France existed.

The ability of lawyers to ignore inconvenient facts and boldly assert whatever facts they would prefer is incredible. Perhaps of is part of the reason lawyers are frequently held in low esteem.

Some can get away with it because they blind their audience with charisma and charm, but alas Legs, you don't exhibit these characteristics. You will have to back your assertions with facts & reasoning instead.
 
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Legs Akimbo

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The ability of lawyers to ignore inconvenient facts and boldly assert whatever facts they would prefer is incredible. Perhaps of is part of the reason lawyers are frequently held in low esteem.

Some can get away with it because they blind their audience with charisma and charm, but alas Legs, you don't exhibit these characteristics. You will have to back your assertions with facts & reasoning instead.
But you just established that France existed. I was agreeing with you.

It's no wonder I get confused. The Womble is determined to pick a fight. I wish he would try it with someone who cares.
 

cold wombat

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But you just established that France existed. I was agreeing with you.

It's no wonder I get confused. The Womble is determined to pick a fight. I wish he would try it with someone who cares.

You are being a deliberately obtuse idiot. The country of France did not exist during the early part of the medieval period for the same sort of reasons the countries of Germany or Italy didn't exist. Just because there was territory and cultural groups bearing the name doesn't mean there is a country to match.
 

Legs Akimbo

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You are being a deliberately obtuse idiot. The country of France did not exist during the early part of the medieval period for the same sort of reasons the countries of Germany or Italy didn't exist. Just because there was territory and cultural groups bearing the name doesn't mean there is a country to match.
There certainly was a political entity. There were people called the King of the Franks or the King of France who ruled territory in the same vicinity as modern France. Here's a list
 

XTREMO

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Not with socks. They look a bit chunky but goddamn they were perfect for trapsing around Palma in the heat. The comfort of closed shoes with the air-iness of thongs. I still pack the Havi's though
 
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XTREMO

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I know a few Aussies who live in Europe and have no intention of coming back to Australia, Australia is becoming boring with too many rules!
Lucky Australia has the Chinese tourist market now, because around 50% of the Europeans Ive met who have travelled to Australia didnt really enjoy it!

Interesting little clip from one of my German learning channels. This vid has nothing to do with learning the language but is a quick discussion between the teacher who lived in Sydney for a while, and an Aussie who lives in Berlin. Touches on the whole "fun police" culture in Aus.


I laugh when I look back at my 2007 self equivocating over whether to go to Europe for a year, lest I miss out on a few Sydney music festivals and my naive assumption that nothing in Europe could equate. FFS.

Little did I imagine that a decade later, I'd be living 15 mins from Berghain and would have the privilege of whiling away a couple of Sundays a month in this electronic music mecca. Pure, unadulterated hedonism, liberation and freedom. Nothing can compare. Everything pales. I'll never bother doing another destination festival/music holiday again. Forget Ibiza or Mykonos (well I haven't been to the latter but still...)

Its funny that we think we live in such a "free" open society in Aus, but really we're constrained by ridiculously strict curfews and laws that put the brakes on people having fun.

@Telemark Phat did you ever get to sample Berghain? Or was it not around when you lived in Berlin?
 
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