DPS Phantom

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Whatever really, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. Whatever really

    Whatever really Hard Yards

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  2. W0nkey D0nkey

    W0nkey D0nkey One of Us
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    Might work for dads and dentists skis but not in the park.
     
  3. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    How come?*



    *i know zilch about park
     
  4. W0nkey D0nkey

    W0nkey D0nkey One of Us
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    Im just not sure how you would get all the dirt out of your bases without rewaxing.
     
  5. W0nkey D0nkey

    W0nkey D0nkey One of Us
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    I didn't mean exactly for park it was just a cheeky comment.
     
  6. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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  7. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture

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    Sounds like a great idea.

    I'm not quite sure what the benefits of the kick starter campaign are though? A small discount on full retail?
     
  8. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    Market testing
     
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  9. MarzNC

    MarzNC Hard Yards

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    Advantage to DPS . . . could potentially do $US1 million is sales in 30 days for a new project that retails for $100. The buzz around the Kickstarter is pretty impressive considering it's only the first day. DPS marketing did it's job well. Almost $70,000 from 700 early adopters.

    Testing was done in New Zealand and South American in the last few months.

    I'm a fan of DPS skis since I ski Alta often. I rent something from DPS when I get lucky and catch a powder storm. Have watched Kickstarter campaigns before and this one is clearly going to be very successful. As for Phantom Permanent Base Glide itself, going to be interesting to see how people feel by March. Kickstarter shipping promised for Jan 2018.
     
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  10. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
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    So we can wait & see the Northern Winter do the real beta testing before thinking too much about it.
     
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  11. MarzNC

    MarzNC Hard Yards

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    I listened to the Blister Gear interview with DPS Skis founder, Stephan Drake, and Dr. Jeff Bates, the professor of Materials, Science, and Engineering at the University of Utah who provided the science basis for the R&D. One thing that was interesting to hear is that they experimented by doing multiple stone grinds in order to see how treated skis did after one or more stone grinds. Dr. Bates used various tests on cut skis to see how far the chemical change had penetrated.

    http://blistergearreview.com/podcast/dps-phantom-the-end-of-ski-wax-ep-59

    As Stephan Drake noted, there were others who had the idea before DPS started R&D. I found a product called Juice that was invented by a UK ski instructor who is also an engineer. He is focusing on a spray application that isn't meant to be permanent that's at a much lower price point. He had a Permanent Juice version that was about the same price point as what DPS proposes to sell Phantom.

    DPS plans to sell Phantom worldwide via dealers.
     
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  12. XTREMO

    XTREMO Old n' Crusty
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    Just saw this in my feed. Interesting. Will defo be keeping an eye on the reviews in next few months
     
  13. MarzNC

    MarzNC Hard Yards

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    Came across the report from the SKI magazine first-hand test at Loveland that happened in late October just before the Kickstarter launched. A few testers took runs on "three pairs of DPS Cassiar F95 skis to test: one pair freshly waxed, one pair nude (both skis are wax-free), and a third pair with a special technology installed in the base, called Phantom."

    https://www.skimag.com/gear/dps-phantom-test
     
  14. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture

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    @DPS Driver do you know when the commercial release is, and what the distribution arrangements will be in Oz and NZ?
     
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  15. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Hi all, sorry for the late step in. I haven't been looking at social media too much.

    I tested it in NZ this year and it works great. The skis I tested had roughly 60 days on them from treatment and they slid as well as my skis which were waxed and had a day & a half on them.

    Phantom will be released to market in approx 30 days.

    We went with Kickstarter becasue our traditional channels don't include snowboarders. ie skiers read & follow ski related stuff and snowboarders do likewise with snowboard related content. Kickstarter gave us a medium to cover all forms. Quite a smart move I thought.
     
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  16. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture

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    Through retail stores here in Oz? Any idea which stores as yet?
     
  17. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Working on that now. It will start with existing DPS retail partners first.

    I couldn't pre-warn them so they're just getting their heads around all of this and we're in discussion.

    It's disruptive technology which as you can understand has a particular segment of industry heavyweights considerably p'd off as it's a threat to their income. I can understand that and it's not our intention to threaten anyones livelyhood but progression has a tendancy to do that. Take Eastman Kodak for example.

    Hopefully industry will accept this as an addition to the range and choices on offer for the skiing public. Suffice to say the Kickstarter program has been an unbelievable success. So there are people out there with an eye to the future, to the environmental impact and the welfare aspect for ski techs.

    We know it works so now it's up to the skiing public to discover this as well. We're confident they will discover the same benefits we envisaged with this product.
     
  18. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    Sounds fine
    But not sure I'd compare it with the change from film to digital!
     
  19. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    I used that example to make a point. Not in any way comparing it on that scale. Hard marker. Penicillon???;););)
     
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  20. Budgiesmuggler

    Budgiesmuggler A Local
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    What about applying phantom and wax? Seems it’s percieveably possible...
     
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  21. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yes it is. You can wax over Phantom.

    So for the race crew can use their race waxes over Phantom and still get their super fast glide with the added advantage of; when their wax wears off, they still maintain good glide.
     
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  22. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture

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    I suspect I will apply Phantom to new skis early in their life cycle, but still wax, perhaps a bit more infrequently- like maybe every 6 or 7 days rather than every 3 or 4.

    Since most skiers don't wax at all, other than perhaps an annual tune, I doubt the technology will destroy the ski wax industry. It may result in a small decrease in sales, but I reckon racers and enthusiasts will still wax, based on what I am reading
     
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  23. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    LOL
    Just being cheeky :)
     
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  24. Kopite

    Kopite Addicted

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    One question that comes to mind - with the product penetrating the skis, will this potentially have an impact on the manufacturers warranties for new skis?
     
  25. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    I can't see how it could. I don't believe any of the manufacturers would do that because it's a base treatment the same as wax or liquid wax or any of the prep and finish products available out there today. In fact, it actually makes the bases harder and less prone to damage.
    I think it would be viewed with a huge amount of cynicism by the market if any went down that path. Particularly because it was developed by a rival ski manufacturer.
     
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  26. Kopite

    Kopite Addicted

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    You’d definitely hope that manufacturers would see sense. I’ll be getting this for next season I think, just makes sense
     
  27. Shredderman

    Shredderman Hard Yards

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    I think I read somewhere it will only work on new ski bases, doesn't sound right, will it work on skis that have been waxed a lot?
     
  28. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture

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    Given my skis have a storage wax on them I’m interested in the answer to that. I assume you’d need to scrape previous waxes but otherwise good to go.over to @DPS Driver
     
  29. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Wow triplicate.

    Yes, you can use it on existing waxed bases. If applying to used skis that have been waxed it's best to claen the bases thoroughly of all wax. You can do this a couple of ways, ski them for a bit then clean with base cleaner. You might as well get the benefit of your hard earned waxing. If they haven't had a base grind for a while do that. Just make sure you've cleaned most of the wax from the base. Wax doesn't penetrate a base, it lays on the surface.

    Then apply Phantom as directed.
     
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  30. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    It will work really well on park skis. Why don't you put it on your next pair of DPS park skis.
     
  31. W0nkey D0nkey

    W0nkey D0nkey One of Us
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    Aye. What model of DPS ski would be workable anyway. Im struggling to find anything on the website.
     
  32. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Ah!!!! really. Hmmm. Nudge, nudge, ;),;).
     
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  33. HeidiF

    HeidiF First Runs

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  34. SkiMountaineer

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    Looks interesting
     
  35. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yes, Juice was the spark that lead to the creation of Phantom.

    We put a range of skis out with Juice a couple of years ago and tried to develop the relationship further with them, as we believe in the concept but we had some issues on testing with durability and performance re temperature variances. It's a one man band and he's not overly business like and that's not having a dig, it's just that he was happy with his product and wasn't keen to put in some extra work to improve the product and get it out their.

    So we decided to invent our own version from the ground up with the help of the University of Utah. I suppose the only similarity to juice is that it's a wax replacment or enhancement product and from a scientific perspective that's where the likeness ends. Phantom is a mixed or two part treatment to achieve a far more durable / hard finish which is permanent and can be used in a wide temperature range with far superior glide characteristics.
     
  36. MarzNC

    MarzNC Hard Yards

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    I have the impression that the Juice inventor has teamed up with another man who is more into the marketing and business side of things. He's a Britisth engineer who has been a ski instructor in Austria for a while. The original Juice website is very basic and was created using free software. Just before the Juice Kickstarter began, I came across a new website for Look No Wax. It was still basic but much more professional looking. The new website was only selling Pocket Juice, not the "permanent" version that used to be called Perma Juice.

    Hmm, the Kickstarter for Juice Infinity was cancelled a few days ago. Had 25 backers.
     
  37. XTREMO

    XTREMO Old n' Crusty
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    Hi @DPS Driver how do you actually apply Phantom? Sorry if its covered on your site but I didn't see it.
     
  38. fenrir

    fenrir Hard Yards

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  39. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    It's really simple. As per^^^^^. Just remember nowadays you've got to write instructions to the lowest common denominator. ie don't apply it to the tip and tail when your ski is upside down, because it's a liquid and it will run off. So work it to the tip and tail with the applicator. I suppose that's really the only technical aspect. Could have just written apply to entire base of ski with applicator, let it dry and apply second coat, let it dry. Polish with cork & brush off.:);)

    The drying is the only time consuming thing. As for application, that's all done in a minute.
     
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  40. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture

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    Looking forward to it hitting market. I couldn’t be bothered buying from Kickstarter. Can’t wait for @CarveMan Aussieskier to get it in stock
     
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  41. XTREMO

    XTREMO Old n' Crusty
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    Tempted. How late in Jan will it ship? I'm in Germany. Any retailers here?

    What's the story with base cleans going forward post-application? Do I still need to hot scrape every 7-10 days to clean the base?
     
  42. fenrir

    fenrir Hard Yards

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    Some of the literature I found suggested that uv light is part of the curing process. Most of my local shops have the service area in their basement. Are there any plans to release a service kit with uv lights or whatever so lazy customers like me can pay someone else to do it for me?
     
  43. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    To clean just use water. Dirt doesn't penetrate a base, neither does wax. The particles are too big. The reason we use base cleaners etc is to clean the wax off, which holds the dirt. If you don't have wax on the ski it will stay cleaner and when it gets dirty just wipe off witha damp rag or water and a cloth.

    If you wax over the Phantom, you'll still need to use a base cleaner to remove the wax and the dirt stuck in the wax.
     
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  44. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Good question.

    It's one I've asked and one that has been asked of me by my retailers. I don'y know is the answer at this point in time. I know we've a solution in the pipeline but initially we're focusing on getting the product to market as a retail product first then we'll work on set ups for our retailers as a next step.

    Retailers can still offer the treatment as a service but as you say there are a couple of hurdles re drying time to be considered.
     
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  45. fenrir

    fenrir Hard Yards

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    Well as luck would have it I have a brand new pair of skis with the bases completely untouched. I've ordered some phantom and hopefully it arrives before my Japan trip in February.
     
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  46. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    You should be OK re lead time. Delivery is due to happen in January.
     
  47. XTREMO

    XTREMO Old n' Crusty
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    Hmmmm, the instructions say that it should be a sunny day. No mention of the temperature. German winter tends to be grey and bloody cold. Is a sub-zero freezing, cloudy day not going to allow enough UV to cure properly?
     
  48. fenrir

    fenrir Hard Yards

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    Maybe now that they are illegal in most civilised countries perhaps you could pick up one of those cancer beds second hand on the cheap?
    edit: wow not so illegal it turns out, still perhaps you could book a tanning session for your skis?
     
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  49. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yeah! come out looking like Alberto Tomba with a freshly Phantomed pair of skis.
     
  50. Nozawaman

    Nozawaman A Local
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    Saw Tomba when they had the World Cup in Thredbo in '89 . He didn't do any good , but what a machine . He took over from Stenmark for me .
     
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  51. Chondro

    Chondro One of Us
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    Looking forward to this stuff coming out. Pity its not in time for this trip, but will be adding it to the split and park boards for Australian winter testing
     
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  52. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yes, I met him then with Marc Giradelli (one of my skiing heros) at the same time.

    I now work with Phillipe Tomba, his nephew.