DPS Phantom

Interruptedbyfireworks

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The splitboard is factory fresh, so it hasn't had a hot-wax applied yet.

I think I have found the reference that I was mis-remembering.



So the issue is more around applying it and taking the splitboard for a few runs before attempting to skin. If I know that my first outing is going to be Stirling etc, then I would rather wait and apply Phantom afterwards.
I’m not super skilled and therefore probably wouldn’t notice the subtleties, but I just went out and skinned/boarded my first day on the split after getting it phantomed, and didn’t notice any issues with the skins or riding
 
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snowgum

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The splitboard is factory fresh, so it hasn't had a hot-wax applied yet.

I think I have found the reference that I was mis-remembering.

of course by the it’s dirty and waxy from trails? Personally a quick clean then apply is easier - as long as the base doesn’t need a plane? My 2 cents.

So the issue is more around applying it and taking the splitboard for a few runs before attempting to skin. If I know that my first outing is going to be Stirling etc, then I would rather wait and apply Phantom afterwards.
 

DPS Driver

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OK to cover all. @Interruptedbyfireworks @chicski @PAW

The reason we say run the skis or boards over snow for a few laps is to ensure all of the Phantom residue is off the base of your skis so any left over residue doesn't adhere to your skins and potentially inhibit the adhesion.

No issue whatsoever with how Phantom works. We're just saying that there will be some residue left on the surface of the skis which will be removed with a few runs.

If your skins stuck well and continue to do so all good. It's no big deal, just DPS trying to help you protect your gear but not being too good at explaining it.
 

Skichic2

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OK to cover all. @Interruptedbyfireworks @chicski @PAW

The reason we say run the skis or boards over snow for a few laps is to ensure all of the Phantom residue is off the base of your skis so any left over residue doesn't adhere to your skins and potentially inhibit the adhesion.

No issue whatsoever with how Phantom works. We're just saying that there will be some residue left on the surface of the skis which will be removed with a few runs.

If your skins stuck well and continue to do so all good. It's no big deal, just DPS trying to help you protect your gear but not being too good at explaining it.
Sounds reasonable, mine stuck ok.
 

PAW

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All done! I found the process easier than I thought it would be. The hardest part is the brushing off after each cure. No more difficult than waxing, easier even. Two pairs of skis, one with patterned bases, so I had a good workout!
The curing worked well even with our winter sun (Canberra). Gave them a bit of extra sun today in case the Part B cure time yesterday wasn't enough.
Won't get to try them for a few weeks :(
 

MarzNC

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@DPS Driver : I know of Americans who ordered Phantom during the Dreamtime sale last week. Got a kit with the 1-step formula. Instructions are still for the process that involves two packets and 1-hour cure times. Is the process with the 1-step formula exactly the same, except only need to do it once?

I'd heard that ski shops were using a 1-step formula last winter.
 

nezumi

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@DPS Driver : I know of Americans who ordered Phantom during the Dreamtime sale last week. Got a kit with the 1-step formula. Instructions are still for the process that involves two packets and 1-hour cure times. Is the process with the 1-step formula exactly the same, except only need to do it once?

I'd heard that ski shops were using a 1-step formula last winter.

The box on the website now shows the 1-part formula, but that's about all I could see on it.

It would be helpful to maintain the instructions for each version on the website - I know I still have two kits to apply to my solid and splitboard, once I can take them into a shop to be cleaned and have some structure applied to the bases.
 
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MarzNC

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The box on the website now shows the 1-part formula, but that's about all I could see on it.
A member of a different ski forum who bought a kit last week got a quick answer from DPS. Apparently there are website issues. She was given a link to the instructions for the 1-step formula. Guess that should be called Version 2.5? :)

The process is a bit different at the end. Step 6 involves water. The end result is supposed to look "matte black" and that wasn't the case with the 2-part Version 2.0 or the 2-part Version 1.0.

Step 6
Following the finishing/brushing process, spray water over the entire base once again. Polish the bases with the
supplied fiber polishing pad and water. Apply solid pressure, and polish in the same motion as you would use a hand
brush. At this point, the ideal base appearance is matte black.

If necessary do a final top sheet clean using WD-40 and a paper towel, rubbing vigorously. Then clean with rubbing
alcohol. Once alcohol is dry if you cannot see any PHANTOM stains move on to cleaning side wall and edges. If further
cleaning is needed, use a wire brush lightly in a circular motion with WD-40 until the stains are gone. Check the stains are fully gone using rubbing alcohol once again.
 

DPS Driver

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@DPS Driver : I know of Americans who ordered Phantom during the Dreamtime sale last week. Got a kit with the 1-step formula. Instructions are still for the process that involves two packets and 1-hour cure times. Is the process with the 1-step formula exactly the same, except only need to do it once?

I'd heard that ski shops were using a 1-step formula last winter.
Yes we've sold through all of the two part and all of the retail packs are now the one part formula. The bulk workshop formula moved to one part last year.
The process is still the same but only requiring one application. The water process isn't really required but it does provide a better finish.
 
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Team Weasel

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Dunno if this has been covered, but what's the deal with a base grind for skis that have been Phantomed? Would I need to to reapply the treatment, or does it permeate a bit deeper into the material?
 

Any

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Dunno if this has been covered, but what's the deal with a base grind for skis that have been Phantomed? Would I need to to reapply the treatment, or does it permeate a bit deeper into the material?
i though it was a base grind first to make sure you're getting into the ski base material, and not dealing with wax and dirt layers/etc and getting blocked from penetrating.
if you didnt base grind maybe it didn't actually permeate into the skis well.
 

nezumi

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Dunno if this has been covered, but what's the deal with a base grind for skis that have been Phantomed? Would I need to to reapply the treatment, or does it permeate a bit deeper into the material?

This is in the FAQs on the DPS site (https://www.dpsskis.com/products/phantom_permanent_waxless_glide)

DPS Website said:
Traditional wax is a topical application (i.e. it adheres to the base surface, but does not penetrate the base surface) and thereby wears off on every run you take. Some specialty waxes can last a half run and are just temporary topical accelerants. With PHANTOM, and in standing by its lab and on-snow assertion of permanence, in non-technical terms, we essentially miniaturized the “slippery stuff” into molecules small enough to absorb into the base. We then utilize UV light to create a reaction with the polyethylene base molecules and a permanent bond is formed throughout the entire thickness of the base. So technically, if you were to grind and grind through all the layers of your base, you’d still have the benefits of the PHANTOM treatment at each layer.
 

DPS Driver

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Dunno if this has been covered, but what's the deal with a base grind for skis that have been Phantomed? Would I need to to reapply the treatment, or does it permeate a bit deeper into the material?
Ok based on subsequent replies on this thread let me cover it off.

Firstly, a base grind prior is a good idea but not essential. If your bases are in good condition and clean of all wax then that's fine. The reason we suggest a base grind is because it's the best way to remove all of the dirt and wax residue.

When you apply Phantom it penetrates the entire base. That is why we allow the soak period before removing the excess Phantom during the process.

Once the Phantom process is complete, it is permanent. ie it's permanently changed the structure of your base. You can base grind your skis no problem and all that will happen is a new layer of base will be uncovered (so to speak) and the Phantom will work as it should. Some say it works even better.

Hopefully that clears things up for you @Team Weasel
 

Team Weasel

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Thanks guys - appreciate it. Turns out I should have been using my rock-hoppers last time I was out.
 

MarzNC

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i though it was a base grind first to make sure you're getting into the ski base material, and not dealing with wax and dirt layers/etc and getting blocked from penetrating.
if you didnt base grind maybe it didn't actually permeate into the skis well.
During the original Kickstarter, a base grind was suggested as the best way to prep bases before applying Phantom 1.0. That stuck in a lot of people's mind because the implication was that a stone grind was needed for any pair of skis and for every season afterwards regardless of how many days of use. By the time Phantom 2.0 came out, it was much clearer that while stone grind before application is best, it's not necessary. Good to do as part of an application done with a Cure Station at a ski shop, but DIY works fine without a grind.

Since it's been a while . . . here's my personal experience applying Phantom at home. Note that I'm not a worrier, had learned how to wax skis at home, but never even invested in clamps designed for skis. I tend to keep skis because I don't like shopping. The skis I treated first were getting used about 20 days a season on manmade snow.

For my carvers, I'd used them for two seasons, maybe 30 days, and got a stone grind before Phantom. The DIY process (3 hours sun each Part) was done in a bit of a rush before heading out for a long weekend at my local hill (1100 ft vert, 75 acres). Worked great. When Phantom 2.0 came out with the 2-step application process (1 hour sun each Part), I did my old Black Pearls (bull), which were rock skis by then. That was a more organized DIY process in the pre-season. Used them for a full season, including two weeks at Alta in late season that included several very warm days. Phantom glide was great! Far better than my good all-mountain skis that I also brought along that trip. I did a stone grind for the Black Pearls at the beginning of the following season. Still worked great.

I did my daughter's skis, bought as used demo skis, without a stone grind. She only skied them a few days before I treated them with Phantom 2.0, 2-step. At the same time, I did a pair of skis I bought new for fun (Floskis) that had never been waxed.

I did a stone grind on my all-mountain skis back in Feb with the intention to treat with Phantom 2.0 before my annual trip to Alta in April. Didn't happen yet due to the pandemic, but will do it soon for the 2020-21 season. First ski trip to the Rockies is in December.

Nov 2018 in North Carolina, plenty of sunshine, Phantom 2.0, 2-step DIY
DPS Phantom 2.0 two pairs Nov2018.jpg
 
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Marty McSly

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Yes we've sold through all of the two part and all of the retail packs are now the one part formula. The bulk workshop formula moved to one part last year.
The process is still the same but only requiring one application. The water process isn't really required but it does provide a better finish.
Well that answers one part of my question. I was looking for DIY packs to do 3 pairs of skis.

But I can get 4 Phantom 2.0 kits for the same price as 3 "Phantom Glide" one part kits.

Is there significant difference in performance between the 2 products?
 

nezumi

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Given the absence of a UV box in Melbourne, have I missed the window to apply Phantom to my boards before the season, or would I still be OK with a clear day like today?
 

Marty McSly

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Given the absence of a UV box in Melbourne, have I missed the window to apply Phantom to my boards before the season, or would I still be OK with a clear day like today?
I believe that 2.0 only needs 2 hours of UV, not the 6 that the original did. I haven't looked in detail at the one-pack's requirements.
Does your weather app indicate UV levels? If there's a forecast window where UV is high for 2 hours or more, that should do the trick.
 

almontyrat

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I believe that 2.0 only needs 2 hours of UV, not the 6 that the original did. I haven't looked in detail at the one-pack's requirements.
Does your weather app indicate UV levels? If there's a forecast window where UV is high for 2 hours or more, that should do the trick.
My problem exactly, UV forecast for next 4 days tops out at a low 2. I doubt we would get a high reading this far south for 2 minutes let alone two hours at this time of year. The BOM even says sun protection is not recommended lol.
 

MarzNC

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I believe that 2.0 only needs 2 hours of UV, not the 6 that the original did. I haven't looked in detail at the one-pack's requirements.
Does your weather app indicate UV levels? If there's a forecast window where UV is high for 2 hours or more, that should do the trick.
Yep, 1.0 required 3 hours for each part (A, B). The original 2.0 required 1 hour for each part. I did the first pair of skis with 1.0 and then a few more pairs of skis using 2.0.

No idea how North Carolina sunshine in mid-winter (January) compares to Australia in the fall. Normally there is rarely more than a few inches of snow at my house during a rare snowstorm. In early Jan 2018 I was determined to treat skis with 1.0 from the Kickstarter before heading to my home hill for a ski weekend. Just so happened that there was a major snowstorm! It warmed up enough that I went ahead any way. Worked out fine.

I've skied those skis for over 60 days so far, mostly on manmade snow at relatively small hills. Meaning a run takes 5 min or less to finish. Included around 20 days this past season at my home hill, Massanutten (2.5 hours west of Washington DC). Still work great on cold snow or on very warm days during the inevitable thaw that happens at some point in Jan or Feb (season is mid-Dec to early March).

Have also treated my all-mountain skis that I use out west. Waited until it was worth getting a stone grind. They were great in April at Alta when the temps were in the high 50s (F) for the first weekend . . . before there were two big powder storms. I even extended for a couple days to enjoy an extra day or powder skiing and Closing Day. :)

DPS Phantom on AJs Jan 2018 - 1.jpg
 
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almontyrat

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What latitude does NC sit at? we are about 41 degrees south here so I think we are further south than you are north? That would reduce the sun angle (lower in the sky) and hence the solar incidence. I think I will just slather F4 all over them as is my norm and think about the Phantom treatment some time in the future. I really would rather a professional do it, that way if they stuff it up I have some recourse.
 

Marty McSly

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What latitude does NC sit at? we are about 41 degrees south here so I think we are further south than you are north? That would reduce the sun angle (lower in the sky) and hence the solar incidence. I think I will just slather F4 all over them as is my norm and think about the Phantom treatment some time in the future. I really would rather a professional do it, that way if they stuff it up I have some recourse.
Google maps shows the northern boundary of NC at approximately 36.5 degrees.
 

MarzNC

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What latitude does NC sit at? we are about 41 degrees south here so I think we are further south than you are north? That would reduce the sun angle (lower in the sky) and hence the solar incidence. I think I will just slather F4 all over them as is my norm and think about the Phantom treatment some time in the future. I really would rather a professional do it, that way if they stuff it up I have some recourse.
Looks like about 36 degrees north, if that helps. Seattle is at 47 degrees north. For 1.0 there were people who had issues with 1.0. Haven't heard much about DIY problems with 2.0. But I know plenty of people who preferred to have a shop do the treatment.
 
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DPS Driver

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Given the absence of a UV box in Melbourne, have I missed the window to apply Phantom to my boards before the season, or would I still be OK with a clear day like today?
Yes not a problem. Even during the season. All you need is a clear sky and some sunshine. Try to do it in the warmest part of the day but the new one part treatment only needs and hour or so of sunshine.
 
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almontyrat

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Yes not a problem. Even during the season. All you need is a clear sky and some sunshine. Try to do it in the warmest part of the day but the new one part treatment only needs and hour or so of sunshine.
Being a science type person, I would like to know the amount of UV radiation required to cure the material. From this, I can work out the amount of time it would take under our very low intensity solar radiation to achieve a satisfactory result. "An hour or so of sunshine" is way to vague for me sorry.
 
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almontyrat

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@almontyrat if any of the duck-lipped 20 and 30 somethings in your area look suspiciously well tanned, hit them up for the address of the illegal solarium they're using. A sunbed should be long enough to treat a pair of skis. :D
Thankfully (or unfortunately for me) we do a strong line in anaemic druggy bogans round here. Tanned duck faces not so much. I will ask around though
 
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