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DPS Phantom

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Whatever really, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. Kopite

    Kopite One of Us

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    I emailed the folks at DPS about this, they said still pop a storage wax on during the off season.
     
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  2. Roymond

    Roymond One of Us

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    :thumbs:
     
  3. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Interesting, I know some who had it done in Colorado recently. US$35 more than a stone grind and full tune for the prep and using the Cure Station, plus the $100 for the Phantom stuff itself. Two day turn around from a ski shop in the city.
     
  4. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Recent article in Powder about using Phantom for back country skiing. The author had been skiing on Phantom for a while. The test was four weeks of daily back country skiing in Utah and British Columbia.

    https://www.powder.com/stories/dps-phantom-glide

    [Includes one of the more understandable explanations about the change process that happens in the base during treatment.]
    "As for how Phantom works, it enters the ski base in a liquid phase [i.e. avoiding toxic fumes] and once it has been absorbed into the ski base, a light activates a chemical in the mixture resulting in polymerization of the compound. This polymerization leads to conversion of double bonds into stable single bonds. In layman terms, Phantom is chemically stable and non-reactive in the environment. Equally important, Phantom becomes part of the ski base—meaning it changes the chemical composition of your ski base and stays on no matter how many base grinds your skis pick up at the local shop. Also of note, you can wax your skis on top of Phantom to no detriment."
     
  5. Joysticks

    Joysticks Hard Yards

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    Recently had a chance to use my A112’s with Phantom 2.0 applied at purchase using a curing station. I think it’s a great product having had them on snow for around 2 wks in Japan. First time was early December when conditions weren’t great and second time was earlier this month. I normally performance wax my other set of skis which are 100mm underfoot and I really can’t tell the difference with the Phantom product. They’ve gotten faster with each use and I’m quite pleased with the outcome.
     
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  6. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Mr Trump has done wonder with that move.
     
  7. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    It works for ever. No need to use storage wax. Just need to protect your edges.

    In saying that you can use storage wax if you want. You can wax over Phantom. Just scrape it and ski it off. But not necessary.
     
  8. linked_recoveries

    linked_recoveries One of Us

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    Really? A ski base is just under 2mm thick (give or take). Each grind removes something like 0.2mm of base material (give or take). Is the Phantom still going to be hanging around after four base grinds?
     
  9. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yes. Phantom penetrates the entire base. That's why it requires soak time.
     
  10. Kopite

    Kopite One of Us

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    Just did my new skis with Phantom 2.0.

    Observations are it’s far easier to apply than the initial version. Aside from the faster cure, it’s more obvious when it has cured, and brushes up better too. I did find it harder to get off the edges and topsheet though where it had dropped down. Possibly me being a messy bugger didn’t help this.

    No clue how it skis, I’ll report back in June!
     
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  11. Joysticks

    Joysticks Hard Yards

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    Returning to Japan mid Feb for 2 wks, will give an update on how well it skis. I’ll have had around 4 wks on the application by then....
     
  12. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly What a plonker. Ski Pass: Gold

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    I see Level 9 are now offering Phantom as an add-on.
     
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  13. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    It's worth the investment.
     
  14. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Wondering how many Cure Stations are in Japan and Australia at this point. The coverage in the U.S. and Canada in regions that don't get warm enough temps or strong enough sunlight for a good outdoor cure seems to be pretty good.

    Per usual the mid-Atlantic market around DC/Baltimore/Philadelphia is being left out. Nothing in Florida or Atlanta either but folks that far south get plenty of warm temps and sunlight during the winter months.
     
  15. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Hi Marz,
    There are some heading for Australia soon. Issues re voltage had to be overcome.

    Japan has about 10 now, however the last 6 only just arrived so will be getting distributed to stores as we speak.

    There's more exciting stuff happening with Phantom. Can't say anything at this point but it's cool.
     
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  16. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    @DPS Driver : had another question come up recently. Any reports about performance in really frigid temperatures? Meaning around -10F (-23C). I found the Blistergear review that mentioned cold temps, but the person asking is in Montana and was interested in even colder situations. Said something about using Swix CH3 or CH4 currently.
     
  17. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    You put the wrong unit of measurement in the brackets.
     
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  18. azzski

    azzski Should know better Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Have to make allowances for the Americans ;)
     
  19. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Can only twist my brain around so far. ;)
     
  20. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Hi Marz,
    Depends on snow conditions. It works as per a general purpose wax, so a broad temp range. If you regularly ski cold climate with GP wax then no issue. If you want specific cold temp wax then you will probably get better performance out of that than phantom. This is a day by day prospect though so it may be you do 90% of the season on Phantom and the really cold days you slap on some cold temp wax.
    Don't worry about the really cold days when the crystal are all broken and act like skiing on cut glass, nothing works on that.
     
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  21. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    That makes sense to me. The person asking the question retired to Montana. Has been doing full tunes on multiple pairs of skis for decades. Has all the equipment related to waxing and sharpening edges. I'll pass on the idea of adding cold weather wax for the frigid days. Seems to be interested in Phantom for the trips to ski somewhere other than the home mountain, which isn't happening that often.

    I'll ski in frigid temps during a trip when I've flown in for a week. But mostly try to plan my trips more in late Feb or March than Jan-Feb, especially at the destination resorts farther north. There's a reason I haven't skied much in Canada . . . yet. ;)
     
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  22. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

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    DPS
    I might be interested if it could replace my one run applications of NotWax during hard won Spring descents in Oz mountains.
    This patent stuff suggests just that ( or would we need a different formulation ? )
    https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170198167A1/en
     
  23. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    It will help.
     
  24. Roymond

    Roymond One of Us

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    Heading to Snowmass next week. Does anyone know of any stores offering phantom? DPS website says ‘four seasons’ but when contacted directly they don’t know anything about it. Any ideas?
     
  25. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    There are 3 or 4 ski shops in the main mall thingy. Go for a walk. It is not very big. Aspen is a short, free bus trip away as well.
     
  26. Roymond

    Roymond One of Us

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    Thanks. Will do. I don’t think they’ll let my family into aspen. Would fail on style criteria.
     
  27. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Also there is a good supermarket in a shopping centre on the other side of the access road. I think it is called the Snowmass Centre. Much bigger range of groceries and booze than the shops in the Mall. There is a free shuttle bus on the lower level where all the other Snowmass Shuttles (not the bus to Aspen) leave from.
     
  28. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Hmm, pretty odd that after the big announcement in November, Four Mountain Sports doesn't show up on the DPS Dealer map for Phantom.

    https://www.dpsskis.com/en/blog/dps-phantom-joins-forces-with-aspen-skiing-company/
    " . . .
    This led the company to apply PHANTOM to its premium demo skis at the Four Mountain Sports location at the base of Aspen Mountain for the 2018/19 ski season, as well as offering it for retail sale at all of its locations.
    . . ."

    Did you see the three independent ski shots in the town of Aspen listed on the DPS Dealer map that have Phantom and a Cure Station? Select Category (above Retailers) to limit to just Phantom.

     
  29. Roymond

    Roymond One of Us

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    Got the ones in aspen, was hoping to get it done in Snowmass- drop
    In when lifts shut, cure and rest overnight then pick up in the morning rather than tracking over to aspen.
     
  30. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us

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    I personally used it in Hakuba in -15C and as mentioned above it felt like my skis were about 3-4 runs in after a generic wax applied. To be fair the one time I have been in colder conditions (<-25C) my generic wax stopped working and the cold seeped through my skis into my bones.
     
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  31. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    We did a deal with Aspen. The entire Aspen demo fleet is Phantomed. Over 800 pair of skis were done pre-season. Aspen area has plenty of cure stations and Phantom, so you should be OK. We're updating our website to show Phantom dealers as opposed to DPS ski dealers.

    Just send an email to DPS and they'll give you the latest stores.
     
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  32. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Just had a hook up with the team re Phantom updates.

    Re the cold weather question. What we've found is that people who apply cold weather wax to their Phantom prepped skis are finding that their wax is staying on longer due to the structural change made to the base.
     
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  33. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Phantom is going nuts in the US. Europe is effectively a season behind but ramping up.

    We've shipped over 100 cure stations in the US. We've got major ski resorts lining up to phantom their entire demo fleets. Note: we don't recommend using Phantom on an extruded base. It works but not as effectively due to the structure of the base. So when I say demo fleet we're talking about their high end skis with sintered bases.

    It is much more than a trend now. This a big thing and getting bigger.
     
  34. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Have heard the terms, but can you give some examples of popular recreational skis that have an extruded base? Are they more for beginners/intermediates?
     
  35. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us

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    I always thought extruded bases applied more to cheap snowboards than skis?
     
  36. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    I'll start at the beginning so you understand the difference, then differentiate.

    Sintered base: is manufactured from a powder of ultra high molecular weight which is heated and and pressurized. The particles melt and fuse to create a flat sheet or slab from which the base is sliced off at the desired thickness. More expensive and that goes up with the addition of graphite for race bases etc.

    Extruded base: is manufactured from pellets of low molecular weight which are heated and pressurized then fed through an extrusion machine to the desired thickness. Not to such high heat as a sintered base. The result is a less porous base. Cheaper base.

    Sintered base will retain wax longer and absorb Phantom. Extruded is challenged with both.

    You will find extruded bases on most cheap skis & snowboards and most standard rental fleets because it is cheap to buy.
     
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  37. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

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    I believe Kuzmin (Sweden) got it right:

    2006-11-29
    GLID I LÄNGDSPÅRET?
    Is stone grinding and waxing an optimum procedure?
    • Dry stone ground surfaces have a low contact angle,much lower than the scraped surface (104,83° compared
    with 117,26°).
    • Wax has to be applied to the stone grinded surface, that ever increases the attraction of dirt to the ski base.
    • We may suppose that the manual scraping resulted in some kind of randomly rough surface.

    So I always steel scrape after a stone grind.
    And suspect that I would do the same to a Phantom treatment.
     
  38. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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  39. Joysticks

    Joysticks Hard Yards

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    Hi there,

    Just an update on Phantom 2.0. I've had around 4 wks (between Dec'18 and Mar'19) on the DPS Wailer A112 with Phantom 2.0 applied via the curing station. The temps and conditions have been very varied anything from fresh powder, both on and off piste, and around -25c to 7c wet snow as you can see from the image upload. When conditions were sticky, friends with traditional wax had the same issues, we all slowed down to varying degrees as you would expect. Overall I've found thew Phantom product very quick even in such a variety of conditions, I really cannot fault the product at this stage. I have a feeling I won't be going back to traditional wax if at all possible.

    Hope that helps!

    Dt%gXPiGSpisBTssvkPN8Q.jpg
     
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  40. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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  41. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Great feedback.

    It's consistent with all the feedback we're getting around the world. It works.
     
  42. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    All the demo skis that DPS brought to the Alta Demo Day on April 6 were treated with Phantom, presumably 2.0. There are now round stickers that come in the DYI 2.0 kit. Get two stickers, so one for each ski if using on a pair of skis.

    My friend who demo'd that day had never been on treated skis before. Noticed an obvious difference in glide on DPS skis compared to demo skis from other brands that afternoon after temps warmed up a bit.

     
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  43. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator

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    So are there any cure stations in NSW yet ?
     
  44. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yes one at Snowbound in Chatswood. Rhythm have one on order. Others coming.
     
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  45. Shredderman

    Shredderman Addicted

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    Any in Victoria?
     
  46. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator

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    Do you know the time frame for Rhythm?
     
  47. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Should be pre-season but we're working on a few things.
     
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  48. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    No. There is an opportunity in Vic if any stores want to get cure stations.

    Phantom is disruptive technology and some retailers have different approaches to that. The writing is on the wall though. We'll get there. There will be Phantom on sale in Vic through our retailers just no Cure Stations as yet.
     
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  49. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Do you know if DPS Dealers in Australia and Japan are going to be added to the Dealer Locator database any time soon?

    The number of ski shops with Cure Stations in N. America is up to 116 as of May 2019. Finding a Cure Station near destination resorts in the Rockies or along the west coast isn't that hard any more. Besides SLC where DPS is located, Seattle, San Francisco, Denver, New York City, and Montréal are the metropolitan areas that have several shops providing DPS treatment service. Not too surprising that few shops in New England are interested in Phantom yet. DPS skis aren't that well known there.

     
  50. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Good question. I will follow it up with the team.

    It's going gangbusters in the US and Europe is starting to tick. It'll take more time here as there is quite a lot of resistence to new technology and new brands in this country.

    We've got one here at Snowbound and Rhythm are after one but it hasn't been delivered yet. Others have requested info but not jumped as yet. They'll wait and see and maybe in three years we'll have a couple more.

    They do cost a bit to ship here.
     
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