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DPS Phantom

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Whatever really, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

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    How about NZ?
     
  2. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

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    I've just followed up on some more recent reviews online, seems a lot of folks are still waxing with Phantom to maintain glide?
     
  3. Barras

    Barras Addicted

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    Any idea when Rhythm will gets theirs? i called the other week but they said they didn't know and are just waiting for it to arrive
     
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  4. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I doubt that "a lot of folks" are adding traditional wax to "maintain glide" but instead are interested the the very best performance. For instance, if the temperature is frigid then add a true cold weather wax will help a bit. At least until the wax wears off.

    If someone likes to wax their own skis and has 3-4 different kinds of wax available, they are likely to keep waxing. I don't think that's a majority of the people on the slopes who own their own gear. But then those people aren't posting on online ski forums either or posting reviews of Phantom or ski gear in general.

    I can think of several active members of U.S. ski forums who treated one pair of skis last season, liked the performance, and proceeded to treat other skis they owned as well. Most are advanced skiers, but some are intermediates who are mainly skiing groomers. During late season (April 2019) when sticky snow started showing up, that encouraged some people to go ahead and pay to have Phantom treatment done at a shop with a Cure Station.
     
  5. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    There are plenty of skeptics in the U.S. In particular, folks working in ski shops in some parts of New England (Boston, NH) who know very little about DPS skis. I talked to a few on a little ski safari in March. Just asked about Phantom to see what they knew. Wasn't surprised that it wasn't much.

    I chatted with one tech at the Alta Ski Shop in early April who was just "watching" to see if Phantom really worked. But a couple weeks later a few Alta Ski Shop staff went on a DPS Factory Tour. They brought six pairs of skis to have Phantom added. Since Alta had a bonus weekend after 7-day operations ended on April 21 and Snowbird is still open, perhaps some of those skis will get tested this spring.

    I had a ball skiing in warm conditions at Alta, Solitude, and Deer Valley in April on my treated all-mountain skis. Same skis I used in May 2018 at Bachelor and Mammoth with traditional warm weather wax. No contest, the glide with Phantom was better.

    Apparently the Dealer Locator database isn't up to date for the U.S. either. Just found out on TheSkiDiva that a shop in NH got a Cure Station in April and plans to sell DPS skis in the fall. But makes less difference right now since it's the N. American off-season. Plus anyone who wants to treat their skis at home has plenty of sunshine to work with. But for people who don't know how to wax skis, some are nervous about going the DIY route. Especially if they only own one pair of skis.
     
  6. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Nothing yet but Small Planet will have one at some point.
     
  7. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    What reviews are they. I'd be interested to read them. Can't understand why anyone would do that unless they were waxing for racing which many are starting to do, so that when the race wax wears off they still have a fast gliding base but apart from that it's a waste of time and money.
     
  8. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    It'll be a few weeks at best. Some more involved in getting things going across the Rhythm group.
     
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  9. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

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    Came across comments along those lines on Wild Snow (whose review isn't overly convincing). Comments like "glides as well as ptex"...
     
  10. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Your reference seems weird. Here's the Wildsnow review on Phantom https://www.wildsnow.com/25799/phantom-ski-wax-dps-review/
    Note Lou's comment, "I'm here to tell you the stuff works". Lou is quite taken by Phantom as indicated in his review. So not sure how you could read into that what you have. Unless of course you work for a wax manufacturer. ha ha.
     
  11. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

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    I guess it was this comment from Lou that stood out:
    Given it's "warm" snow we spend most of our time on in NZ.
     
  12. Any

    Any One of Us

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    still waiting for a treatment box in hokkaido.
    maybe then i can catch up to future girlfriends i see on the hill, my skis are too slow at the moment.
     
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  13. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    I think you're taking it out of context. What Lou meant was it isn't much difference to a pair of waxed skis on warm snow. You should also not the comments which Lou further elaborates on.

    In fact with the advances made in the Phantom product the warm snow performance is very good.
     
  14. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

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    Why would you compare to ptex, and not waxed skis then? Maybe, but for someone detail focused like Lou, it seems odd.
     
  15. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Why would you stick on one point when the whole context of the review is positive and states that the stuff works.

    I've skied on it for two years in Australia and New Zealand and it works. Why don't you try it and come back with your own review.
     
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  16. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us

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    Funny, because the kind of conditions where my wax washes off in the first hour leaving me on bare ptex are the ones where I notice the biggest difference with Phantom. It keeps gliding all day long.
     
  17. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

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    Yeah, I'm quite keen to give it a crack on a bespoke splitboard. But a comment like "not much different to p tex on warm snow" is a massive but imo.

    Is there a curing bed in nz?

    The main takeaway I got from Lou's review was that it stops icing, which is not an issue I have with my current splitboard, and helps stop skin glue sticking to bases. This can be an issue with g3 skins, but a quick iron sorts that out pretty effectively, as does snow abrasion ime.
     
  18. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Not yet. re cure station in NZ. Possibly one or two very soon.
     
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  19. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

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    Small Planet?

    I can get hold of a uv rig if necessary...
     
  20. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Don't know much about NZ weather. Is it too cold and rainy for DIY treatment already? Sunlight not strong enough, like in the Pacific NW (Seattle, Vancouver)?
     
  21. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    NZ is fine to cure in Sunlight.

    In fact, the first real full season testing of Phantom was done in New Zealand with excellent results. We've improved the formula considerably since then. We had a couple of guides and ski instructors on it plus Nick Pascoe my sponsored skier. He loved it so much he now works for DPS in Utah. True story.

    Well, I don't think it was just the Phantom but Nick now lives in SLC and works for DPS and is part of the Phantom team.
     
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  22. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I met Nick in April during a factory tour that was set up for a few folks from the Alta Ski Shop. He is clearly having a lot of fun working for DPS. I'd talked to Zach at the Alta Demo Day in early April about my experience with Phantom. At the end of the day, I asked about the round Phantom stickers, which led to the tour invitation. I invited a retired friend who writes articles for ski forums to join me since he happened to be staying with his son in SLC for a few weeks. He wrote up the tour for DCSki, a small regional forum that's been around for a while for folks who live around Washington DC. He also posted about the tour to Pugski.

    Nick gave a full tour of all the stations for making DPS skis, plus we talked about Phantom. I learned a lot since the others had plenty of questions. Absolutely fascinating! At the end of the tour, I asked Nick where he was from so learned he was from New Zealand.

    Got stickers for my treated skis. Also learned that two round stickers are included in 2.0 boxes now.
     
    #322 MarzNC, Jun 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
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  23. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Classic @MarzNC He's a great kid, very smart, extremely humble, well mannered and a lunatic on skis.
     
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  24. LastMile

    LastMile Hard Yards

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    Any update on the Rhythm cure station? I'm heading down to Perisher in a few weeks and would love to be able to drop my skis off for a grind, sharpen and Phantom while I grab some dinner in Cooma.
     
  25. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    It should be there in a couple of days if not already there. So you should be sweet.
     
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  26. LastMile

    LastMile Hard Yards

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    Dropped my skis off at Rhythm to be Phantomed just over a week ago. Pick up this Friday on my way back down to the snow.

    Getting a base grind/structure and sharpen before the Phantom is applied, so everything should be in great shape to hit the slopes again.
    Apparently the new "workshop version" only requires one liquid treatment, not the DIY two-part process. 20 minute application and 20 minutes in the cure station.
     
    #326 LastMile, Jul 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  27. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yes, the workshop solution is a one part solution. Apply takes roughly 5 minutes, 15 minutes of soak time then into the cure station for a bit of heat and the magic UVA,B & C and voila!!
     
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  28. Joysticks

    Joysticks Hard Yards

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    Anyone know if Rhythm Japan (Niseko specifically) will get a cure station this season?
     
  29. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator

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    Are you able to say how much it was?
     
  30. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Don't use colour formatting.
     
  31. LastMile

    LastMile Hard Yards

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    I was quoted $150 for the Phantom application. I'm not 100% sure if that includes the mini-tune beforehand. But not too fussed if the grind and sharpen is extra, as I needed that done anyway and the price for workshop Phantom application is the same was what they're selling the DIY kit for.

    I'll update on final price when I pick them up on Friday.
     
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  32. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yes they should be in-store in Niseko pre-season.
     
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  33. Zeroz

    Zeroz A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Is there an up-to-date list of places that have the gear and skills to apply the Phantom?
     
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  34. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I will tell you when I pick up my 2 pairs of freshly Phantomed DPS skis tomorrow........
     
  35. Any

    Any One of Us

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    if only DPS had a convenient location to distribute such information, backed by a searchable database and providing users advanced filtering options.
    they just cbf updating it.
     
  36. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    The only places in Australia are Rhythm in Cooma and Snowbound in Chatswood NSW.

    All other retailers are sitting on their hands, not wanting to swim against the stream. I suggest you all approach your local ski shop and ask them if they'll be getting one.

    I know this will be big, it just takes time.
     
  37. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    They do have a dealer locator for Skis and Phantom on the website. Not a case of cbf, more a case of a small team with lots to do. Unfortunately some things take a bit of time to catch up.
     
  38. Any

    Any One of Us

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    I can see why there might be resistance in the uptake of curing boxes.
    It seems too good to be true to people still. Which initially I expected to be the case, but now there's too many reviews backing it up. In any case even if its half as good as advertised I think its pretty cool for someone like me, too lazy to wax.
    It's also a big chunk of dedicated hardware they need office space for, for a single purpose.

    On the other hand, I don't know why stores aren't jumping at it.
    With so little options available, you can attract customers from a huge geographic range. Who will probably make use of your value added services while they're at it (base grind & profile). I've read of 6 month long backlogs to get skis done.
    And then (depending if you have a backlog) you've potentially got a customer sitting around for 20 minutes waiting for their skis to be processed. Which, i don't really know, but in my opinion is the most valuable commodity for any store. They've got nothing else to do but to look at products and impulse buy stuff, stuff that is probably way higher profit margins. + coffee.

    Pro vs con, I'm a bit baffled why there aren't more.
    Perhaps a huge waitlist for boxes? (@DPS Driver ?)

    On the subject of Phantom performance, I've been thinking that someone should do a test with just 1 x ski phantomed, and 1 x ski waxed. You're testing the same snow, same temperature, same conditions, live. By the end of the day you probably cant ski straight hehe.
    Not sure I want to risk my next pair of skis having uneven treatment to test this myself tho :p it'd be a fun to test to try.
     
  39. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    We went through the same resistance in the US but that has just gone ahead in leaps and bounds. Europe is starting to take off now. It will happen, just need to permeate the industry a bit more.

    We've done every test possible, so I'm sure at some point in time we've done the one ski wax one ski phantom test.
     
    Any likes this.
  40. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    The latest Blister Gear interview with Stephan Drake, CEO of DPS, includes a few minutes about Phantom. Apparently about 200 Cure Stations have been delivered to ski shops worldwide, with more being built for delivery during the pre-season for the Northern Hemisphere 2019-20 season. Drake also mentioned that research is being done on the concept of using Phantom together with traditional wax. Because the base is permanently changed, it make a difference and it seems to be on the positive side.

    July 12, 2019 Interview, Phantom comments start at 44:27
    https://blisterreview.com/podcasts/19-20-dps-skis-lineup-with-stephan-drake-ep-56
     
    #340 MarzNC, Jul 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  41. hatto

    hatto One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    There clearly seems to be plenty of interest in here about this product so what is holding you back.
    Is it still unsure about product
    Is it because you can't get the process done (lack of cure stations)
    Is it the cost
    Is it because you need to be able to get it done on the way to the slopes and are not interested in getting it done prior(in summer etc)
    My gear is in Japan but I will be trying to get it done when on next trip
     
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  42. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I want to get my skis done, and would prefer to get it cured in the shop. I do not have a suitable and secure place where I can leave my skis in the sun to do it myself. It is proving difficult to organise logistically, as the one local shop that has the facilities can't do same day turn around, and wants the skis for 3 days. Also that place is around 100km from the slopes. Trying to sort something out with them currently
     
  43. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    In his comments related to Phantom during the July 2019 Blister Gear interview, Stephan Drake made it pretty clear that he thinks getting more Cure Stations out is a key factor to build acceptance by the masses. I know during late season for the N. American 2018-19 season there were people who were happy to shell out the money to get a Phantom treatment after a day on spring snow with warm temps predicted for the rest of their ski trip. But they had to be at a ski resort where that was an option.

    In the U.S., DPS skis are not that well known east of Denver. So shops in New England (MA, NH, VT, ME) that even carry Phantom for DIY are rare.

    The test that I did in May 2018 in the Pacific Northwest (Bachelor and Timberline) was between my carvers treated at home with Phantom 1.0 and my old all-mountain skis with warm weather wax (home waxing before trip) and paste wax 1-2 times a day. It was no contest that Phantom bases had more consistent glide. By the time my ski buddy and I got to Mammoth, I was sticking to my carvers even though it took a bit more concentration on ungroomed terrain. My ski buddy had his all-mountain skis and was pulling out the paste wax on the slopes every 2-3 runs (Mammoth runs are long).

    Mammoth May 2018, a run off the top of the gondola, ski buddy waiting on the run out
     
  44. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    The advantage of having more than one pair of skis is that it's less of a risk to treat one pair with something new. I got Phantom 1.0 from the original Kickstarter in Dec 2017. I live in Raleigh, NC (5 hours drive south of Washington DC), so having enough sun in January wasn't going to be an issue. As it turned out, the week I got the kit was just before I was headed to my home hill (Massanutten) for a long weekend. It snowed at my house that week! Happens once or twice a winter but usually not quite so much. I went ahead anyway the day after the storm moved out since I'd already done a stone grind. I'd used those skis for two full seasons, mostly on manmade snow in the east (VA, New England), about 25 ski days total. For details see Posts #62 and #100.

    Have skied about 20 days with Phantom 1.0 so far. About 15 days the second season in assorted conditions at different ski areas, mostly cold snow on New England groomers. In Dec 2018 skied for 6 days in a row in NH/ME mostly on manmade snow, including 3 days at Sunday River. Without Phantom, would've waxed 1-2 times. No difference in glide the second season compared to the first.

    Treating my old all-mountain skis (Black Pearls 2011) with Phantom 2.0 was that much easier since the sun time was only an hour per packet. Plus I could get it in the fall. I didn't bother with a stone grind, but intend to do that at some point. Those skis have become my "rock skis" for my annual late season stay at Alta Lodge. Had great fun in April 2019 on the warm days (temps over 40ºF).

    January 2018, Phantom 1.0 at home in North Carolina
     
  45. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Comments from an American skier during late season around Tahoe, April 2019. She decided to get Phantom after a warm day.

    https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/i...keeping-skis-3-years.23209/page-5#post-388281
    https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/i...keeping-skis-3-years.23209/page-6#post-388409
     
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  46. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Any chance of this happening in the next month? Know of a Ski Diva in NZ who is interested.
     
  47. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Not yet Marz. NZ is having a shocker. No natural snow this season. It's dire.
     
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  48. LastMile

    LastMile Hard Yards

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    Very happy with my Phantom treatment from Rhythm. I picked the skis up Friday afternoon and skied Perisher all day Saturday; $150 including the base structure grind and edge sharpern.

    While it didn't feel like fresh workshop hot wax on the first few early runs on the groomers, it easily bettered the home waxing I'd been doing previously. Performance was consistent throughout the day as snow conditions changed.

    Another bonus was how easy it was to remove climbing skins. I did a couple of runs from the car up to our lodge at Guthega, and they came off quickly and cleanly each time.

    The workshop guys had only done one other treatment for a customer and they were a little nervous handing them over, as the base looked like it needed a good wax. I dropped by on the way home to let them know how happy i was with it. Here's hoping it lasts a season or two :)
     
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  49. Any

    Any One of Us

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    Ty for the price update on Rhythm.
    Can I also ask about turnaround time?
     
  50. LastMile

    LastMile Hard Yards

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    I left mine with them a few weeks ago while they were waiting on the workshop product, knowing I would be down later to pick them up.

    There doesn't seems to be huge demand for it at the moment, so based on their and DPS's comments they should be able to turn around a pair in about an hour. You could try booking a time to be sure.
     
    Any likes this.