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driving in Canada

Discussion in 'Canada' started by sly_karma, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. Wayne86

    Wayne86 First Runs

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    Will be in Canada from 20th Nov 2013 - 31st March 2014. Staying in Whistler till end of January then 1 month in Silverstar followed by another month traveling from Silverstar to Banff stopping and a few resorts on the way.

    Thinking itll be best to buy a car while im there and sell it when i leave.

    Is that an easy process in Canada? Am i better of to buy/sell private or from a car yard? How much am i likely to lose doing this? Say i brought something from a car yard for 10k used it for the 4 months, how much would they buy it back for approx? Maybe best to buy private and sell to a car yard once finished?
     
  2. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Depends how much time you want to put into this. There are tons of used vehicles on Craigslist, and they're cheaper in general than the dealers. But first you have to scan through hundreds of postings, work out what the vehicles is (model names are often different from Australia), then you have to trip around all over the place on public transport looking at prospective purchases. Once you have the vehicle you need to do the title transfer, pay the sales tax, and insure it. It all adds up to a lot of time and travel in a city you're not familiar with, and rules and bureaucracy you're not used to. Certainly it can be done, plenty of people do this.

    At a car yard there are lots of vehicles in one place, they usually have some form of warranty, and the insurance and title people will come to the dealership to meet you and do all the paperwork before you drive away. Like so many things in life, it's a tradeoff: convenience vs price. Same goes for the sale of the vehicle at the end; you'll get more from private sales, but how much time will it take?

    Don't forget to bring with you the most up-to-date driving and insurance records you can obtain before you leave Australia. Anything you can provide to ICBC will help your cause to get some kind of no claim bonus; they're notorious for trying to discount your good driving record in other jurisdictions.
     
  3. Wayne86

    Wayne86 First Runs

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    Yeah figured its pretty similar to Australia in terms of price vs convenience. was hoping it wasnt as dramatic tho. do dealerships in Canada just straight out buy 2nd hand cars without trading up? Dont wanna have to hang around for weeks just to sell the car private after im done.

    Any recommendations on cars to buy for under 10k? Looking for something big enough for all our gear (2 ppl) reliable and safe to drive in the winter conditions. Was thinking some sort of SUV or pick up maybe
     
  4. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    what about selling on consigment?
     
  5. Wayne86

    Wayne86 First Runs

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    Hmmm yeah could be an option. Know any good places/people/companies that do it?
     
  6. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Although they get the majority of their stock from auctions, smaller car yards will buy if the vehicle is good, some do consignment too. Dealerships, fuggedaboudit. Craigslist and Kijiji are still your best bet for selling. If it's priced right and you're in the city, it'll move.

    For $10K you'll be better with a 4 cyl hatchback, plenty of room for skis/boards with the seats folded down. Those were less money to begin with, so they won't be as old or have as many km compared to a pickup or SUV that has finally depreciated to the $10K level. Put a set of proper winters on for about $600 - about$400 less than if you went truck or SUV - and you can get away without 4WD. I've driven FWD vehicles all over BC highways in winter with good results. You do need to be careful on the occasional steep driveway or street but that's about it. The usual players do it well: Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe (both are really Corolla hatches), Honda Civic, Mazda 323, Nissan Sentra, Ford Focus. Did Dodge make a good hatch in that age range? Hmm, don't think so.

    Get hold of a current-ish copy of Phil Edmonstons's Lemon Aid book, used cars version. This is THE authority on what problems might arise with each make, model and year - things to look for when you inspect a car. It also lists typical price guidelines for prospective purchases. There are separate books in the series for used and new truck/SUV and new cars. The information that comes for the purchase price could easily save you many hundreds of dollars.
     
  7. bigwhite-rameok

    bigwhite-rameok Hard Yards

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    Just a reminder that seeing as it now past Oct 1, either winter tires on the vehicle, or carrying chains in the vehicle is now required by law to travel over most mountain passes in BC. I've never had the misfortune of being turned back from travelling a highway, but I know of others who have - they DO enforce the requirement with random checkpoints this time of the year.
     
  8. main street

    main street Doing what I want. Ski Pass: Gold

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    Good call there BW-R.
     
  9. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    My studded winters just got fitted this week, need to go to Apex this weekend.
     
  10. Taipan

    Taipan Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I didn't take mine off from last winter! [​IMG] [​IMG]

    They will come off in 2014 though. Brand new set of summer tyres set to go and in the cupboard - originals from when I bought the car.

    Bought a battery charger and air compressor pump in Feb this year before I left. Ready for when I arrive. Thanks SK for your advice - don't drive unregistered vehicle even if your on the way to register it. Ill get mine sorted Kamloops Airport - Insurance - home to Sun Peaks
     
    #110 Taipan, Oct 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2013
  11. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    taipan do you leave the car at Kamloops when you aren't there?
     
  12. main street

    main street Doing what I want. Ski Pass: Gold

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    No,.... It lives in his garage.
     
  13. Taipan

    Taipan Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Safe, warm, out of the weather. It was out once during the summer to be cleaned!

    And then put away. [​IMG].

    Actually trying to have a clean car in alpine resort during winter is almost impossible.

    Garage fills up with snow and ice and everything in it that falls off the bottom of the car after every trip to Kamloops.

    Ive found that after it melts off the car it makes its way towards the garage doors where it promptly refreezes as black ice. [​IMG]

    With the amount of time we spend in sun peaks (11 weeks last/this year, up to 42 in 2014 - it ended up cheaper then hiring! Cars are dramatically cheaper in Canada then Aussie)
     
    #113 Taipan, Oct 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
  14. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    so you bus or taxi from Kamloops Airport to SP the first time you arrive?
     
  15. Taipan

    Taipan Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes taxi from Kamloops. With Kami cabs
     
  16. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    should I get myself an International Driving Permit for use in Canada? or unnecessary?
     
  17. main street

    main street Doing what I want. Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not necessary.

    Your Aussie one will be good for 90 days here.
     
  18. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    [​IMG]
     
    #118 gareth_oau, Nov 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2013
  19. chunky

    chunky Old n' Crusty

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    Yeah never used one over there.
     
  20. trappers

    trappers Safety not guaranteed Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    to be honest, I've never bloody had an international driving license, and I I've lost count of the number of countries Ive driven in ... is it actually ever necessary?
     
  21. rugbyskier

    rugbyskier One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes, in Japan you can't rent a car without one.
     
  22. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Winter and a new crop of Aussie visitors is approaching, so here are a few more tips for driving in Canada. This time I'm focusing on driving with less than ideal rubber, because the rental companies still for the most part won't fit real winter tyres. Front wheel drive is a big favourite in nth america; if you don't specify a 4WD or AWD, chances are you'll be getting a FWD. In general, FWD is better in snow than RWD, because the engine sits on top of the driving wheels, but it can be undone on steep slopes where the engine weight is pushed backward and comes off the driving wheels. Access roads to the ski hills in western Canada often have tight hairpin bends and short steep pitches that can be trouble spots for FWD, especially with less than optimum rubber.

    1. Momentum is your friend. Really important in marginal traction conditions to keep momentum. That means giving it plenty of speed going into a steep uphill section and accepting it will bleed off as traction gets flaky. It means taking the longest line possible around hairpin bends; ie, the outside of the corner. This has two advantages: average slope is gentler (same height gain, but over longer distance), and average speed can be kept up - less loss of momentum.

    2. Four second rule. On dry roads, keeping a two second gap in front is optimum. On snowy roads, double the gap. Getting any closer takes away many of your options when things go pear shaped. You can't speed up to bank some momentum at the start of a steep section if you're already close behind the car in front. You can't see into corners ahead if 50% of your forward field of view is blocked by the truck in front of you, so BACK OFF. (And stay back, you need room around you).

    3. Understeer. FWD vehicles have a tendency to understeer; ie, driving wheels lose traction whilst cornering and the vehicle runs straight despite the steering wheel being turned well off straight. On the flat, the best solution is get off the brakes and give a good dab on the throttle, will generally straighten you out. This is more tricky on a downhill grade. If it's gentle, use the gas as for on the flats. On steeper slopes, get off the brakes and use the gears to slow (you should have already been doing this anyway). If it's really steep and/or really icy, putting the transmission in neutral briefly is the best answer. Pretty much impossible to get a rental car with a manual over here; this is the equivalent of engaging the clutch. Either way, you need to stop those driving wheels from trying to drive, at least until you can straighten it out.

    4. Plan ahead. This isn't always easy, but try to avoid steep driveways and residential streets. These surfaces are usually less well maintained and can incorporate much steeper grades than highway engineers permit. Unless surface conditions are pretty bad, the mountain highways of BC and Alberta shouldn't pose much problem to a modern FWD vehicle, even one with M&S tyres instead of the real deal. It's the slow steep stuff in the resorts you need to watch out for. So be careful in hotel parking areas and access roads, consider walking to your accoms from the check in office to scout for slippery spots.

    5. Apex those corners. Taking a long, smooth line through corners means less loss of momentum and better stability of the vehicle - hearkens back to my comment in the original post about 'no sudden moves'. If you have clear forward vision, you can cross the centre line briefly to effectively increase the radius of the corner. In tighter corners with limited forward line of sight, the late apex is usually best: go into the entry wide (whilst you can still see it's clear), apex slightly later than midpoint of the turn, and exit relatively tight; ie, not crossing the centreline. This might sound a bit like racing doctrine, but the aim is smooth consistent radius with no big hits on brake pedal or gas pedal - those are what causes most problems in snow.
     
    main street likes this.
  23. main street

    main street Doing what I want. Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well said Sly.

    Great info as usual.
     
  24. Mils

    Mils One of Us

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    I am moving perma, I was thinking of getting an International or just an Ontario one. which would be a better idea?

    I will be in Quebec but I see I have to pass tests and stuff for a license there!
     
    #124 Mils, Nov 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
  25. JoeKing

    JoeKing Old n' Thrusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    The thing is, as an old legal worry-wart explained to me, most places you probably don't need it to rent a car or even drive.

    It's when the sh.. hits the proverbial fan and you're getting monstered by a cop because of it in some calathumpian country is when it matters.

    Out of interest, I wonder what your insurance policies say in regard to drivers licences and personal injury and otherwise.
     
    #125 JoeKing, Nov 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
  26. JoeKing

    JoeKing Old n' Thrusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah.

    [​IMG]

    #2 is the reason I am such a horrible passenger.
     
    #126 JoeKing, Nov 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
  27. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I wonder if the international licence covers you for third party personal liability, or allows your local personal liability cover to be extended to cover you while international?
     
  28. main street

    main street Doing what I want. Ski Pass: Gold

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    That "policy coverage" is roped into your rental fee's over here mate.

    You'll get the agent ask you when you pick the car up if you want "additional cover" & "excess waivers"...... Just make sure you have a defibrillator handy for your wallet when given the price for that though.... [​IMG]
     
    #128 main street, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2013
  29. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've got travel insurance for that
     
  30. main street

    main street Doing what I want. Ski Pass: Gold

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    [​IMG]
     
    #130 main street, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2013
  31. Born2ski

    Born2ski Part of the Furniture

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    Just remember the majority of travel insurances DON'T cover you while driving a car.

    They will cover you for medical expenses if you have a car accident and normally a damage excess, which is often around $5000 depending on the policy.

    Travel insurance does NOT cover you for personal liability or if you write off the vehicle.

    They will generally have an out clause in their exclusions something like this one.

    The above is from the ski Insurance policy, page 25 of the PDF. All other policies I've read have a similar out clause. http://www.1cover.com.au/assets/pdf/ski-insurance.com.au-policy.pdf

    So you may want to reconsider some of those extra insurances. [​IMG]
     
    #131 Born2ski, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2013
  32. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    thanks B2S, the TPL isnt covered at all if the incident is caused by a vehicle.

    I will need to investigate this further
     
  33. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    No province will issue you a licence unless you can prove residency there. Do you have an Ontario address? And then you are still expected to re-licence if you reside in a new province, I think you have up to a year to get it done. Suck it up and take the test, extra points and admiration from us if you do it all - and pass - in French.
     
    #133 sly_karma, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
  34. Mils

    Mils One of Us

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    ahaha frak karma! in french [​IMG]

    I have a very close friend in Ottawa, but I guess I can't prove I live there?
     
    #134 Mils, Nov 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2013
  35. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    spoke to my broker today and was advised that in Canada TPL for driving is compulsory, so I'm assuming it must be covered somewhere? perhaps included in the base carhire rate?

    I'm checking with the car hire company next (Economy)
     
    #135 gareth_oau, Nov 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2013
  36. chunky

    chunky Old n' Crusty

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    I thought Economy had all the insurances covered. They advertise ' no more to pay'.
     
  37. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've emailed them and asked for confirmation
     
  38. Born2ski

    Born2ski Part of the Furniture

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    Some of the websites do include all the insurance and waivers you need in their base rate, but you do need to check it out just to be sure.

    Make sure you have a Collision Damage Waiver to cover any damage to your rental vehicle.
     
  39. bomber

    bomber One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Some pics from March this year
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    2.5 hours to drive 160 kms 4wd the whole way
     
    #139 bomber, Nov 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  40. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted

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    The AAA Digest of Motor Laws is an online compendium of laws and rules related to driving and owning a motor vehicle in the United States and Canada.

    http://drivinglaws.aaa.com/

    Use the map below to browse each state’s traffic laws, vehicle titling and registration requirements, fees and taxes, driver’s licenses, and traffic safety.


    The 'aaa/caa digest of motor laws' site

    http://drivinglaws.aaa.com/laws/drivers-license-issuance-application/

    lists the driving licence requirements, state by state, for USA and Canada.


    The 'aaa/caa digest of motor laws' site also details Tire Chains & Studded Tires information for USA and Canada

    Tire Chains | AAA/CAA Digest of Motor Laws http://drivinglaws.aaa.com/laws/tire-chains/

    Studded Tires | AAA/CAA Digest of Motor Laws http://drivinglaws.aaa.com/laws/studded-tires/
     
    #140 snowtyres, Nov 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  41. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted

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    #141 snowtyres, Nov 9, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  42. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    pleased to advise that Economy Rentals include full insurance cover, including Third Party Liability (Person) Third Party Property, collision and theft, all with a CAD300 excess
     
  43. Born2ski

    Born2ski Part of the Furniture

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    Good to hear Gareth.
     
  44. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Illustration of one of my original points today. I broke my own rule about not having a schedule and things didn't go as planned. I was going to Apex to do some work for the ski club and I wanted to be up there early so I'd be fully prepared for when the other volunteers arrived. Apparently I went a bit too early because the road hadn't been ploughed yet and there was 7-10 cm of wet glug on it. Even with good studded tyres, my RWD van was going up the steep parts of the road in a slow, ponderous fishtail. Rather than take on a pair of particularly steep hairpin bends, I pulled off the road when I had the chance. I knew my group would be along in 15 minutes or so in their Landcruiser, and grabbed a ride with them. When they had to leave at lunchtime I got dropped at my vehicle on the now nicely cleared (and mostly melted) road and drove back up to finish the day. Moral is: sometimes better to wait for conditions to improve. (And get a Landcruiser)
     
  45. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I would have a 4x4 in Canada full stop if I lived there Sly. Way more convenient.
     
  46. bomber

    bomber One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    sly,
    Landcruisers are a rare beast over there but everyone you talk to knows about them. The mine I go to would love to buy them but way too expensive compared to the rubbish they drive. Also capital is tight and everyone looks at light vehicle costs
     
  47. main street

    main street Doing what I want. Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sly's work van is a bit different though,.... & for what it does, a 4x4 would not cut the mustard methinks.

    If Sky had been in a front wheel drive vehicle, my guess is he'd have had less drama,.... but probably still some degree of it.

    & I'm lovin my '03 Murano,.... AWD & some nice chunky Cooper Weather Master winter tyres,..... :D
     
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  48. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Nearly every tradie in aus (particularly building trades)has a 4x4 ute these days. Toolbox setups and canopies are king.
    Vans commonplace too, but no real winter to contend with here for the majority
    I say nearly every tradie because there is the minority who persist in ridiculous and impractical XR8s and HSV utes where the merest scratch results in tears.
    Its a work ute d!ckheads!
     
    main street likes this.
  49. main street

    main street Doing what I want. Ski Pass: Gold

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    This !!! ^^^^
     
  50. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    The van was great when I started 8 years ago, I was a one man outfit, sometimes I had a labourer. The jobs were small, a few days or at most a fortnight in one spot. I could carry all my tools inside and undercover, much easier to access than a truck canopy because of the sliding door. Materials up to 3 m long could fit behind the seats, longer stuff like ladders went on the roof racks. Things have changed though. The jobs and the crew are larger, and we are on a site for months rather days, this current one is more likely two years. Tools are now in a modified shipping container that has insulation, heater and lights and doubles as a site office. I rarely pick up tools anymore, very much a manager these days. In 2014 I hope to trade the van and get a reasonably new 4WD half ton truck like an F150 or similar. I do feel the need to have one 4WD in the 'fleet', and the van is the one no longer doing much. It's mostly relatively empty because the tools are needed at the job site rather than with me driving around visiting architects, engineers, clients and suppliers. That might be the reason I was sliding around on the road yesterday - no weight. FWD would have been OK with good rubber, but it was slippery for everyone because of the warm temp.