Driving to the snow over the years

cornice11

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the monaro scares the shit out of me. esp the royalla to michelago bit. its straight and fast, carries a lot of traffic, and is the first undivided road after so many kms of dual carraigeway.
very sorry to hear news of another fatality there. yet again.
 

Skichic2

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I was riding and heard it. I had nearly witnessed a head on right in front of me just past Royalla on the way, on open very visible section. Covid holiday brains? This one was just up from the entry to the wreckers. Not someone trying to turn out I don't think. I heard a truck sound, then a Big Bang.
Saw the skid marks off onto the verge on my way home. Truck headed north, car south I believe. Car turning, truck unable to stop?
 

Snow Blowey

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Saw the skid marks off onto the verge on my way home. Truck headed north, car south I believe. Car turning, truck unable to stop?


Most likely someone not paying attention and someone not leaving a safe gap and therefore running out of time to react.
 

telecrag

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It sounded like an empty double (truck) running over something, turns out it was. Story I have fits with what @Snow Blowey said, looking like the other person won't make it either. Car swerved to avoid a car braking in front, into the truck, its at an overtaking lane. Which was a similar thing to the one that nearly happened in front of me, the car swerved off the road to avoid the Hilux on the wrong side just after the extra lane. I think a lot of people are not very good at judging distance and speed.

School holidays deliver again perhaps. However details are thin on the ground, not sure who or where from.
 

Snow Blowey

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Turning vehicles are a problem on highways. People travel so close to the vehicle in front all they can see is the vehicle in front. Easy to miss the stationary vehicle up ahead with indicator on if you can't see it.

I had a close call on Sunday. 110km/hr highway. Couple of long sweeping bends. I round one to find a car with boat trailer travelling at about 60km/hr. I could see it was safe to pass and given i was already travelling fast enough to make the pass quickly i pulled out to go around. Guy in the vehicle indicates right turn just as i'm level with the rear of his trailer and starts to turn. Luckily i picked up what was going on because i was able to swing wide out on to the dirt on the opposite side of the road and avoid collision. Bit of reverse steering in the unsealed verge to come to a stop.

After the event i realised old mate was going slow looking for a turn off, but had no indicator on signally intention to make a right turn. Spotted the driveway, indicated and commenced the turn all at the same time. Can't understand why you wouldn't just indicate early and risk having it on a bit longer, rather than surprise everyone and cause an accident. Indicators be for indicating.
 
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nfip

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rule of thumb iirc.
indicate 5 secs. before your intended turn.
I'm with you all here.
road smarts and common sense is in short supply.
not only on snow roads.
I observe coastal town this long w/e..
Clearly badged european ( audi & bmw) are
immune to road rules aka the law, common sense and down to earth driving savvy.
much entitlement is much entitled.
:mad: :confused::zzz:
 

Donzah

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Re the Flynn's wrecking crash. Very sad.
Late spring the sun can set and shine in a bad spot coming up that hill....
 
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dawooduck

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It sounded like an empty double (truck) running over something, turns out it was. Story I have fits with what @Snow Blowey said, looking like the other person won't make it either. Car swerved to avoid a car braking in front, into the truck, its at an overtaking lane. Which was a similar thing to the one that nearly happened in front of me, the car swerved off the road to avoid the Hilux on the wrong side just after the extra lane. I think a lot of people are not very good at judging distance and speed.

School holidays deliver again perhaps. However details are thin on the ground, not sure who or where from.

There are no arrows or signage on the uphill side designating what is a turning right lane, not an overtaking lane. There are major road design, line marking, signage and maintenance failures all through that stretch.
 
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Ozgirl

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rule of thumb iirc.
indicate 5 secs. before your intended turn.
I'm with you all here.
road smarts and common sense is in short supply.
not only on snow roads.
I observe coastal town this long w/e..
Clearly badged european ( audi & bmw) are
immune to road rules aka the law, common sense and down to earth driving savvy.
much entitlement is much entitled.
:mad: :confused::zzz:
Yeah does anyone member the 3 second rule been the car in from of you and how you count a road sign etc with one strawberry, two strawberry etc. To count seconds?

I few people (funny tailgaiters) think in nuts.
 
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nfip

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Yeah does anyone member the 3 second rule been the car in from of you and how you count a road sign etc with one strawberry, two strawberry etc. To count seconds?

I few people (funny tailgaiters) think in nuts.
I was sitting at an intersection yesterday
there was typically gaps of car length or less .
hmmm maybe 60 kmh.
one dude, possibly of Delhi heritage seriously 6 feet off the bumper off tolerant dude ahead.
scary shit. is scary.
hence we stay off the roads at times such as this.
 

nfip

Cold 'n Rusty
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There are no arrows or signage on the uphill side designating what is a turning right lane, not an overtaking lane. There are major road design, line marking, signage and maintenance failures all through that stretch.
:cry:
takes not one but I observe historically a series of incidents aka in the biz " MVA'S " for the remedy to be applied.
 

dawooduck

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Yeah does anyone member the 3 second rule been the car in from of you and how you count a road sign etc with one strawberry, two strawberry etc. To count seconds?

I few people (funny tailgaiters) think in nuts.

Most tailgaters are oblivious as they stare at the boot of the car in front like they do in city traffic.
 

fenrir

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It sounded like an empty double (truck) running over something, turns out it was. Story I have fits with what @Snow Blowey said, looking like the other person won't make it either. Car swerved to avoid a car braking in front, into the truck, its at an overtaking lane. Which was a similar thing to the one that nearly happened in front of me, the car swerved off the road to avoid the Hilux on the wrong side just after the extra lane. I think a lot of people are not very good at judging distance and speed.

School holidays deliver again perhaps. However details are thin on the ground, not sure who or where from.
Several times over the last few seasons I've had to hit the anchors hard to give some overtaking idiot in oncoming traffic the necessary space to finish their pass.
 
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fenrir

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So they can be in the parking spot next to you at the resort. Idiots.
No this is people overtaking in oncoming traffic. Sometimes from a long way out and at times I've had to brake to below 40 to avoid a head on,
Whether part of it is misjudgement, and part is the vehicle being overtaken entering race conditions it's not a situation you should have to find yourself in.
 
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Kash

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I think one (certainly not the only) solution to these f$%^wits that speed and dangerously overtake is to urgently install point to point speed cameras. I have no idea why they arent in place already for all vehicles and not just heavy vehicles. eg if it takes you 50 mins to get from outskirts of Canberra to Cooma you've gone too fast and instant fine or something like that.

I feel it would gradually change the behaviour of those that feel the need to rush dangerously. Just my $0.02 worth.
 

fenrir

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I think one (certainly not the only) solution to these f$%^wits that speed and dangerously overtake is to urgently install point to point speed cameras. I have no idea why they arent in place already for all vehicles and not just heavy vehicles. eg if it takes you 50 mins to get from outskirts of Canberra to Cooma you've gone too fast and instant fine or something like that.

I feel it would gradually change the behaviour of those that feel the need to rush dangerously. Just my $0.02 worth.
Speed itself isn't a problem, the road is good. A lack of (safe) overtaking opportunities and poor behaviour by vehicles being overtaken (ie stick at 90 during a normal road and speed up to 120 during the overtaking lane or when being overtaken) are more of an issue.

A big part of it is cars travelling too close together. Go to overtake and there is no space to pull back in.
One of my mates uses his cruise control to get as close as possible to the vehicle in front, to maximise fuel efficiency. o_O
 
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DPS Driver

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Being in sales for many years I was on the road all the time and you develop a cat like awareness of other drivers. In many situations you could see an accident about to happen well before it actually did and you could pull way back and keep a safe.

I see it so many times were people just aren't aware of what's going on around them. It's critical when on the road.
 

fenrir

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Being in sales for many years I was on the road all the time and you develop a cat like awareness of other drivers. In many situations you could see an accident about to happen well before it actually did and you could pull was back and keep a safe.

I see it so many times were people just aren't aware of what's going on around them. It's critical when on the road.
Years of riding my bike to work in Melbourne led me to assume everyone on the road is trying to kill me and I react accordingly.
 

TACKIE

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Turning vehicles are a problem on highways. People travel so close to the vehicle in front all they can see is the vehicle in front. Easy to miss the stationary vehicle up ahead with indicator on if you can't see it.

I had a close call on Sunday. 110km/hr highway. Couple of long sweeping bends. I round one to find a car with boat trailer travelling at about 60km/hr. I could see it was safe to pass and given i was already travelling fast enough to make the pass quickly i pulled out to go around. Guy in the vehicle indicates right turn just as i'm level with the rear of his trailer and starts to turn. Luckily i picked up what was going on because i was able to swing wide out on to the dirt on the opposite side of the road and avoid collision. Bit of reverse steering in the unsealed verge to come to a stop.

After the event i realised old mate was going slow looking for a turn off, but had no indicator on signally intention to make a right turn. Spotted the driveway, indicated and commenced the turn all at the same time. Can't understand why you wouldn't just indicate early and risk having it on a bit longer, rather than surprise everyone and cause an accident. Indicators be for indicating.
Had one like that in our little town today. Line of cars slows down, guy on motorbike at the back decides to overtake the line, but the lead car is turning right. The bike rider no longer with us.
 

Sage Oya

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One thing i noticed which was of concern the long weekend past was all of the cars pulled over in the should breakdown lane on the Federal Highway to take selfies in the canola fields. Was an accident waiting to happen with small children jumping out of cars excited and traffic passing at 110kms. Certainly picturesque, but a terrible spot to stop with a convoy of people movers.
 

MattyHoll

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A big part of it is cars travelling too close together. Go to overtake and there is no space to pull back in.
Busy times on single lane highways you always get a convoy of cars bumper to bumper behind the slow vehicle. It achieves nothing but unsafe overtaking.
 
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MattyHoll

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My personal favourite is when you’re towing a trailer between Canberra and Cooma averaging 5k’s over and get people over taking you in the overtaking lanes only to have to pass them again a few k’s up the road when they drop the speed. I reckon the 2 lanes gives some sort of bravado, plus they just see a trailer and don’t want to be behind it. Happens all the time.
 

CarveMan

I Never Slice
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Bad drivers subconsciously speed up when the road is wider and smoother, and slow down when the opposite occurs.

It's very frustrating as there's literally one corner between the outskirts of Melbourne and the base of Mt Buller on the Melba/Maroondah Hwy route that can't be taken at the speed limit by anything other than a truck/bus.
 

Ozgirl

Part of the Furniture
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My personal favourite is when you’re towing a trailer between Canberra and Cooma averaging 5k’s over and get people over taking you in the overtaking lanes only to have to pass them again a few k’s up the road when they drop the speed. I reckon the 2 lanes gives some sort of bravado, plus they just see a trailer and don’t want to be behind it. Happens all the time.
Forget the trailer, both my parents MUST be at the front of the line... I don't care as long as I'm doing 'about' the speed limit.

They have one of those cruise control with safety zone to slow down when you 'catch up' gosh I just wouldn't notice.

I drove mum and I to Cooma the other day, and it was so relaxed. Compared to the "must be first" mentality.
 
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sly_karma

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Bad drivers subconsciously speed up when the road is wider and smoother, and slow down when the opposite occurs.


Quoted for truth. Mystifies me why certain major bridges have reduced speed limits, people slow down anyway because they feel threatened by the narrower surroundings. Bridges are bottlenecks already, reducing their flow capacity with a speed limit makes it even worse. The classic slow down at the end of a passing lane section is a product of the same lack of awareness. You'd think that with cruuse control in almost all vehicles nowadays that this would happen less often, but nope.
 

Untele-whippet

beard stroker
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Quoted for truth. Mystifies me why certain major bridges have reduced speed limits, people slow down anyway because they feel threatened by the narrower surroundings. Bridges are bottlenecks already, reducing their flow capacity with a speed limit makes it even worse. The classic slow down at the end of a passing lane section is a product of the same lack of awareness. You'd think that with cruuse control in almost all vehicles nowadays that this would happen less often, but nope.
Cruise control = no control to some (a lot)
The rise of the machines...
 
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Snow Blowey

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I think adaptive cruise is a problem when it comes to people speeding up during overtaking maneuvers.

Cruise works well on the open road. You set it and if you catch another vehicle you pass it becuase you set speed is higher than theirs.

With adaptive, its much less likely that the driver will be aware what speed they have been travelling at and is likely to speed up above their cruise set speed to overtake all comers, before reverting to the original set speed. Especially if they are in phone zombie mode.

We all have adaptive cruise built into our heads. Most make the task as painful as possible by travelling to close to the vehicle in front, minimising reaction time and increasing brake use and speed variability. If you leave a bigger gap you've got more buffer before you have to go for the brake. Most times you simply lift your foot off the pedal and slow a little rather than touch the brake, making all speed changes smoother and therefore smoother traffic flow.

I'm just grateful that i rarely drive in situations where adaptive cruise would be attractive.
 

KylePee

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I think adaptive cruise is a problem when it comes to people speeding up during overtaking maneuvers.

Cruise works well on the open road. You set it and if you catch another vehicle you pass it becuase you set speed is higher than theirs.

With adaptive, its much less likely that the driver will be aware what speed they have been travelling at and is likely to speed up above their cruise set speed to overtake all comers, before reverting to the original set speed. Especially if they are in phone zombie mode.

We all have adaptive cruise built into our heads. Most make the task as painful as possible by travelling to close to the vehicle in front, minimising reaction time and increasing brake use and speed variability. If you leave a bigger gap you've got more buffer before you have to go for the brake. Most times you simply lift your foot off the pedal and slow a little rather than touch the brake, making all speed changes smoother and therefore smoother traffic flow.

I'm just grateful that i rarely drive in situations where adaptive cruise would be attractive.
My biggest gripe with adaptive cruise, and I've only had it this year so little time to become accustomed, is that the car slows gradually and sometimes I don't realised I've dropped 10km. If I'm driving by foot, I've had to decide that, and get to either decide to slow and settle in, or take the opportunity to pass. I'd just like a simple light or something that makes it more obvious that it is slowing me down - I have to look at the little screen to see this, so might as well just be looking at the speedo. It really comes into its own though when you're stuck behind someone who can't maintain a consistent speed, and you can't pass them
 

Peatmos

First Runs
Oct 9, 2020
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One thing i noticed which was of concern the long weekend past was all of the cars pulled over in the should breakdown lane on the Federal Highway to take selfies in the canola fields. Was an accident waiting to happen with small children jumping out of cars excited and traffic passing at 110kms. Certainly picturesque, but a terrible spot to stop with a convoy of people movers.
We saw the same and though we were approaching an almighty pileup, but no just another Instagram opportunity. The police were in attendance trying to break up the crowd, a good move.
 
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Snow Blowey

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My biggest gripe with adaptive cruise, and I've only had it this year so little time to become accustomed, is that the car slows gradually and sometimes I don't realised I've dropped 10km. If I'm driving by foot, I've had to decide that, and get to either decide to slow and settle in, or take the opportunity to pass. I'd just like a simple light or something that makes it more obvious that it is slowing me down - I have to look at the little screen to see this, so might as well just be looking at the speedo. It really comes into its own though when you're stuck behind someone who can't maintain a consistent speed, and you can't pass them


But surely the fog of partial automated control makes it much less likely you'll spot a chance to pass?
 

KylePee

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But surely the fog of partial automated control makes it much less likely you'll spot a chance to pass?
Down to the pilot I guess. Much harder if on a road that you don't know, but same goes for any passing. I tend to use the controls to increase the gap, to give me a better view and chance. This is all vague memory given the limited driving of the past few months.

It actually catches out more on multi-lane, and when speed differential is lower. It takes that little bit of momentum away, so you need to accelerate and move right rather than naturally shifting over as the gap closes.
 

sly_karma

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We all have adaptive cruise built into our heads. Most make the task as painful as possible by travelling to close to the vehicle in front, minimising reaction time and increasing brake use and speed variability. If you leave a bigger gap you've got more buffer before you have to go for the brake. Most times you simply lift your foot off the pedal and slow a little rather than touch the brake, making all speed changes smoother and therefore smoother traffic flow.
So much this. If you're having to brake, you're too close. Too much brake, too much gas, too much headache when you're tucked in too close. Ease back and play the angles to your advantage, you can see ahead much better when you're further back. Get too close and most of the meaningful portion of your field of vision is occupied by the vehicle you want to pass - especially if it's a big truck.

Down to the pilot I guess. Much harder if on a road that you don't know, but same goes for any passing. I tend to use the controls to increase the gap, to give me a better view and chance.

Not essential to know the road to make effective overtakes. Stay back, observe a possible opportunity developing as you see double line coming to an end. Accelerate in your own lane and time it so you can pull out and pass if it's clear to do so, otherwise back off and wait for next chance. If done properly you should be at overtaking speed before crossing the centreline.

Knowing the road makes it easier though, you can relax and wait for the good chances or passing lanes you know are coming up, or you can be all set up to exploit a sharp chance before a lengthy stretch with few or no passing places.

Most drivers spend months or even years at a time on city roads and freeways without having to use a country highway where safe smooth overtaking is a skill that needs to be learned and exercised like any other.
 

CarveMan

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My biggest gripe with adaptive cruise, and I've only had it this year so little time to become accustomed, is that the car slows gradually and sometimes I don't realised I've dropped 10km.
See that’s it’s biggest feature to me. When you’re in a futile conga light of taillights coming home from the snow, not knowing that you’re driving at 93 offsets latent road rage and allows you to be more relaxed.
 

sly_karma

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See that’s it’s biggest feature to me. When you’re in a futile conga light of taillights coming home from the snow, not knowing that you’re driving at 93 offsets latent road rage and allows you to be more relaxed.
Yeah you just quit all expectations at that point, sit back and zen out.
 
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KylePee

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See that’s it’s biggest feature to me. When you’re in a futile conga light of taillights coming home from the snow, not knowing that you’re driving at 93 offsets latent road rage and allows you to be more relaxed.
Yeah that was the other point I made somewhere. It’s best situation is where you just have to sit in.
 

telecrag

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If you leave a bigger gap you've got more buffer before you have to go for the brake. Most times you simply lift your foot off the pedal and slow a little rather than touch the brake, making all speed changes smoother and therefore smoother traffic flow.

Sounds like someone has forgotten how to drive a Hilux!
 
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Legs Akimbo

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When I was young and stupid I used to be a demon overtaker. Then I got a car with a trip computer. I discovered that driving like a mad thing made very little difference to my average speed over a trip to the snow, which translated to very few minutes. But going with the flow meant I was much fresher at the end of the journey.
 

sly_karma

Green Bastard
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So true. When I'm hauling the boat across the Cascades from Princeton to Hope I consciously take it easy on the big climbs, no sense burning a lot of fuel and flogging the truck. And likewise I go a level slower through all the twists and turns and gear down to second for steep descents. Feels really slow yet it takes 1hr35 instead of 1hr30. For that 130 km of mountain roads, my trip time is a paltry five minutes slower than when unencumbered. Astounded me the first time I towed over this road, now I remind myself of this every time I get wound up about being stuck behind a slower vehicle.
 
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CarveMan

I Never Slice
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When I was young and stupid I used to be a demon overtaker. Then I got a car with a trip computer. I discovered that driving like a mad thing made very little difference to my average speed over a trip to the snow, which translated to very few minutes. But going with the flow meant I was much fresher at the end of the journey.
Couple of big fines solved my demon overtaking tendencies.
 
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