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Driving to the snow over the years

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by pegasusSki, May 22, 2020.

  1. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep I pay zero voluntary tax in the forms of fines, gambling & tobacco, and very little in terms of alcohol.
     
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  2. Jasper Schwarz

    Jasper Schwarz One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Just to weigh in on this.

    Until last week I was a Red P-plater (been promoted now :)). I did the drive down to the snow from the Northern Beaches 3 times this season each at different times of the day and with different stopping points, by myself twice (but drove the whole way cause Im not letting my mates drive my car).
    Some observations from my perspective;
    1. 90 Km/H. IMO, this is more dangerous than me doing 100/100. When you have people who are doing 115/120 on the highway, and overtake you in STUPID spots, it just is insane to me. On top of that, the entire car shakes and if they get it wrong, its not only gonna end badly for them but also you.
    I imagine it would be a far more enjoyable drive doing 100 with my P-plates off. (I would never do something so illegal and admit to it over the internet. That would be silly....)
    2. I did the trip leaving at 4am, 10am and 1pm (all via the same route M2- M7 - Hume highway etc.). When I drive to the snow this summer, it will most definetly be leaving at 4am. It is quiet, I can take my time, not have to worry about anything and just drive. Leaving the snow, cause I stay in a lodge at smiggs, I worked out that you can bring your car up in the evening, park it overnight in a cheeky hiding spot the rangers don't check (because our lodge doesnt have parking) and then you can leave early the next morning and do the trip in reverse.
    3. Stopping points. I stopped at the Trappers bakery for obligatory pies and sausage rolls (which takes me about 2.5 hours). Of the 3 times that I did this, I would then drive straight through to Jindabyne (about 4 hours for me). My family loves stopping at Manuka in Canberra so when I was younger we would stop there.
     
  3. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    2.5hrs is a lot of pies and sausage rolls! Respect.
     
  4. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    The other benefit of passing as required is that you tend to find yourself traveling away from clusters of people that are traveling to close together. These are dangerous as per recent accident at Mt Gladstone. I'd rather pass on my own terms then be caught out by someone else's inattention to the road in a cluster related crash.
     
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  5. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    The gap is my biggest bugbear. Its so simple, and so vital. Not just for overtaking purposes. It doesn't matter how good your reflexes are, it takes the fastest person more than a second to get a foot on the brake pedal, nearly two seconds before you are effectively even starting to slow. By which time you are already up the arse of that "idiot" you were tailgating a car length at 100kph when they sneezed and took their foot off the accelerator (because they cant work out how to use cruise), and your precious Hilux (or Ranger) is killing the kids in the back of that Suberoo.

    It shits me no end, you see it daily, multiple times, city, country, a sure sign of a moron every time. There is no excuse.

    Vehicle types mentioned to reinforce stereotypes.
     
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  6. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    The biggest head scratcher for me with the gap is that by being up the arse of the car in front doesn't increase your travel speed, it just makes it more likely you'll miss a passing opportunity, or miss an important going on up in front.

    You save time on the road by negotiating the choke points most efficiently. e.g. approaching the intersection or roundabout at a speed which allows you to assess the traffic on approach, and timing your arrival to find a gap without stopping.

    So many numpties drive so fast and so close they have zero senses left to monitor the traffic around them and generally come to a complete clueless stop at the intersection when there is no reason for them to stop.

    I still think the driver test to get a license should be whether or not you get stuck behind a right turner on a road with a passing lane on the left. Its the best test of how a driver is monitoring their surrounds (in front and behind) whilst driving.
     
  7. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    My wife drives up the arse of cars in front when they’re going very slow. I don’t think it’s a conscious thing. Whenever she does it I remind her to pull back and time her approach to the car in front with an overtaking opportunity, which she then (mostly) does.
     
  8. oldgeezer

    oldgeezer One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Subies are the new Volvo.
     
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  9. skull

    skull One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think I have referred to it here in an earlier post, but I call them steering wheel attendants. They only focus on the first 20-30m in front of them and have zero situational awareness to anything else when driving.
     
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  10. Tonester

    Tonester Lift Line Nazi Ski Pass: Gold

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    Coming into this thread late, but......
    I've driven every weekend in winter from Sydney to Perisher since 2004. The only exceptions being 2007 and 2020.
    I put my daughter (then in Year 4) into the devo programme at Perisher WSC. Basically, I used her as the excuse I needed to get down there more frequently (having a non snow-loving wife). Those first couple of years it was a Sunday only exercise. Little Ms Tonester had Saturday stuff on in Sydney. So we'd hop in the car in the arvo and head to Cooma. I reasoned that a four hour drive was a doable proposition. We'd stay at a motel in Cooma, then make our way to Perisher the next morning.
    A few years later my daughter started racing and race training, which involved a full weekend. That meant taking it up a notch and doing season rentals in Jindy. So, from 2009 we had a winter place to stay, which was a great convenience. My son also started coming down with us and he got involved in Perisher WSC.
    Some key points that I've come to realise:
    • I don't like the Monaro, at night, in winter. It's a dangerous cocktail of wildlife and ******** drivers.
    • The drive is tough and tedious. Every Friday afternoon I'd ask myself WHY I am punishing myself this way. Every Saturday morning the answer would become immediately apparent, when I was on the mountain....it's just awesome there. That 1000 km return trip is worthwhile IMHO.
    • Stephen Fry's reading of the Harry Potter audiobooks is, without a doubt, a masterpiece. How many times did we listen to all 7 books? I don't know, but we know them intimately.
    • For years I'd been telling myself that it will be so sweet when the kids get their licence. It'll be pay back time. They can drive ME to the snow. Except: (1) they don't come down as often now, and (2) when they do come with me and they are behind the wheel, I get really bored. So I actually prefer to do most of the driving. Who would have thunk?
    • I've discovered that I'm not particularly productive at work on Mondays in winter. Go figure!
     
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  11. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Our ski club always seems to contain a couple of families who live in metro Vancouver and do the weekend drive to Apex to a recreational property there. Likewise the freestyle club has some families from the Lower Rainland as well. They'll do that drive every weekend from December to April (there's two lots of school holidays in there as well) and it's 4-5 hours depending which part of the city they're from. Most notable was one family who live on Bowen Island, so on top of the 5 hour drive was the ferry lineup and crossing time (20 minutes) at each end of the journey. They have 6 kids and every last one of them went through the race program. Pam and Bruce became veteran race volunteers with a wealth of knowledge and experience.

    I've long admired the dedication and tenacity of these families, but thanks @Tonester for giving us the inside view. Long nighttime drives and all the additional road hazards encountered in winter really pile up. Our sport would be nothing and nowhere without families who love it so much that they make these multi year commitments to show up every weekend.
     
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  12. Nidecker

    Nidecker One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Pretty much been on the same journey as you since 2009 also at PWSC. SYD->JIN->SYD

    I have always driven a long way for sport.. Mine and my daughters.

    Key points for me:
    • Season rental is a must, not just to save money, but throwing your gear in on a Sunday afternoon, and driving an empty car home is so much more relaxing.
    • I love the fact that I have been able to spend 180 odd hours in winter (possibly more in summer) each year for 12 odd years, with my daughter......................invaluable bonding.
    • I too don't really enjoy life as a passenger, BUT it is nice to have a choice nowadays.
    • Leaving Friday's before school is out has significant benefits!!
    • Not me but the child has generally managed about 80 days a year on snow in Aus, this year only 45 ish, but Covid / Yr 11 intervened.
    • It actually doesn't feel like its much more expensive doing a whole season Vs say a 2 week holiday in the snow. (Petrol excluded)
    • I don't mind the night drive or the wildlife risk, just figure thats part of life.

    Story: Last year 2019, daughter was flying back from nowhereville NSW, and SYD airport was on restricted due to wind, she was due in at 7.30 ish on a friday nite, kept getting delayed and by 10.30pm I got a message they were diverted to Canberra.
    I managed to get a message to her to accept the offer of a hotel and I would pick her up. I got in the car and started driving...
    I think I got to her about 1.30 on the Saturday morning.
    Picked her up from the hotel, kept driving on to Jindy, at this point I think I had been awake 19 odd hours due to an early morning. We arrived in Jindy 3.45 ish and slept for a few hours before I got up and dropped her for early morning training...maybe 6.30am at Perisher.... There was no way she was missing it :) I would have stayed in bed..... Just some of the things we do for a ski :)
     
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  13. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Please we volvo owners take offense at that ;) Volvos survive hitting wildlife. And are aiming for 0 deaths in new cars.

    Just completed a road trip to collect a 240. Somehow the 2 roos jumping across the road between the boat and Bumpalong rd missed hitting us. Sure got my heart rate up.
    We had left at 6am Monday. Back at 4am Tuesday and someone, not me, went to work at 5.30am.
    Yep the things we do for out children!
     
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  14. Nidecker

    Nidecker One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I often look at Volvo and wonder why any Aussie car maker couldn't conquer the world they way they did.

    BTW ..... I think Subi owners would be more offended :pLOL
     
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  15. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    mmm Subi owners just don't know any better. One of my kids bought one. Took less than 2 weeks before he regretted it and was back to driving his volvo.

    Thing is once you own a Volvo you never really want anything else. Little things fail but big picture they are comfortable, perform, survive wildlife....

    Aus car makers conquering the world, there is this minor problem of quality.
     
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  16. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver A Local

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    I've owned a Volvo and 6 Subies.

    Both good cars, however the Subies were much more reliable.
     
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  17. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    My car, which is over 20years old, is coming up for 400k km, and has been owned and maintained by us for over 20 years has had 1 break down. And that, in my opinion was due to a minor design fault. The other volvos with unknown maintenance histories are a different story and a mixed bag. So I do think maintenance has a lot to do with reliability and applies to all cars.

    The 760 one of my 20 somethings is currently driving is a little old and tired and needs far more attention than the others. But this is what you would expect with a car that is over 30 years old.

    Oh there were some models of volvo to be avoided that had serious design issues and subsequent failures.
     
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  18. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver A Local

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    Granted. The best thing a Volvo owner can have is a good honest mechanic who specialises in Volvos. They can save you a fortune.
     
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  19. Arne

    Arne One of Us

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    Any news to the rumours that the average speed cameras come into play for all vehicles in NSW in 2021?
     
  20. coolair

    coolair One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Have to pay the Covid dept somehow.
     
  21. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Lets hope not.
     
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  22. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    It’s hard to see the point of them. Even travelling above the speed limit most of the time, once you taken into account most trips require dealing with slower traffic then surely you’d see an average speed at or about the speed limit?
     
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  23. Donzah

    Donzah Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    My average speed Wollongong to Canberra exceeds the speed limit....
     
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  24. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just makes cautious ken drive 20km/hr under instead of 15 under.

    But at night on the right roads it is very possible to achieve a fine.
     
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  25. Kash

    Kash One of Us

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    No, they are only being rolled out across the Sydney metro area (where I would argue they they are needed least) in 2021, not regional areas. Expect regional will be the next priority.

    https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/speeding/speedcameras/average-speed-cameras.html

    I like the idea of them personally, as I think it will gradually reduce the urgency of the d-heads that think driving 20kms over the limit to the snow is a good idea. I think its a mindset thing. If that urgency is taken away, the need to overtake dangerously flows on etc. Just my $0.02 worth
     
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  26. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Define 'dangerous'? To me a dangerous overtake is when you spend more time on the other side of that dotted line than you absolutely have to. The ability to overtake at a faster speed relative to the vehicle in front minimises that time.
     
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  27. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    You don't think blind corners and crests are a factor? Anyone who has driven to the snow more than once will have seen that sort of behaviour.
     
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  28. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    They will increase urgency, because the type of people that don't speed will be even more cautious and drive even slower. Its not always dangerous to drive quickly. I light traffic at night on a good road its better to cover ground to minimise time at the wheel.
     
  29. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Overtaking does not equal speeding. The two are not linked. Just because one choses to travel a little bit over the posted limit does not mean they make poor overtaking maneuvers and vice versa.
     
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  30. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    I would be happy if people just went the speed limit on a consistent basis
     
    #230 dawooduck, Oct 19, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
  31. Kash

    Kash One of Us

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    In general yes, but unfortunately to reduce the severity of the damage particularly bad drivers cause we all might need to sacrifice 5-10 mins on our longer drives if these cameras come in. I would hope that putting them on empty dual carriageways are a lower priority than single lane country roads - being stuck at 110 on dual carriageways would be frustrating, but i'd be comfortable limited to 100 on the Monaro if it makes it safer for everyone.
     
  32. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Or we could just improve driver behaviour instead. Safe gap would solve most of the issues on the Monaro.
     
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  33. Tonester

    Tonester Lift Line Nazi Ski Pass: Gold

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    ^^ this.
    It's the driver who speeds up, then slows down, then speeds up, then slows down that I find the most tiresome.
     
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  34. Arne

    Arne One of Us

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    I admit it I speed. Maybe up to 8kms over on average. Maybe twenty trips a year and haven't been booked since 1990. I'm flying by cars sitting on or just under the limit on the motorway. But I am over the limit as much as they are under as they're using their speedo I'm operating by GPS. So I know I'm breaking the law and add to the risk of an incident, but I refuse to follow the masses do 10kms below the speed limit and don't know it. How often are we stuck doing 85kms on the Monaro.

    Would be interesting to know what the average speed cameras are calibrated to for tolerances of an infringement.
     
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  35. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ive always thought about defacing one of those signs, so it says

    Police now targeting

    big tits

    But its probably just me.
     
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  36. hipo

    hipo One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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  37. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver A Local

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    In South Australia they're used for cars. I know this because I had a motel booked at Naracoorte which is just shy of a 4 hour drive. My flight was very late and the motel said I must be there by 7.00pm to check in, which meant I had to get along little doggie. So I gave it a bit on the open clear roads with no traffic around anywhere.

    $400 plus fine arrived in the mail a couple of weeks later. Bugger.
     
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  38. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes, don’t deny it.

    You do have big tits.
     
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  39. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    The RACQ had the right understanding of the formula, then ballsed it up at their explanation. if the speedo is showing 100 km/h, then the minimum possible vehicle speed is (100 -4) / 1.1 = 87.27km/h. allowing for round numbers only, in order to have a speed of 100 indicated, the minimum vehicle speed is 88km/h, or 12 km/h below the limit - not 14.

    88km/h actual = 88 + 8.8 + 4 = 100.8
    87km/h actual = 87 + 8.7 + 4 = 99.7
     
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  40. kylep

    kylep Cage rattler Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well if you’re being accurate then it’s 87. It also states that it has to remain under. Even if you rounded conventionally you would take 87, because your 88 example rounds to 101
     
  41. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    What’s your easy and regultable plan for Doing that?
     
  42. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    In the 90’s there was a prominent
    SPEED CAMERAS USED IN THIS AREA sign on King Street Newtown.

    someone removed the word Cameras. Was pretty apt.
     
  43. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    You could start fining conveys of cars travelling to close together. Put a drone up and pull them all in a few km up the road. Would be easier to police than speeding.
     
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  44. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sound readily achievable and provable in court.
     
  45. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Why not. Paint some regular lines on the road. Film with drone. You can measure the gap and the average speed of the vehicle at the same time.
     
  46. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    What's the actual law and supporting case law on distance between vehicles? As in, how to prove, remotely, that 126 is complied with?
     
  47. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Where are you going to pull them up safely?
     
  48. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    They have chevrons painted on a section of the Tuggeranong Parkway, to educate (leave 2 chevrons) it doesn't work.
     
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  49. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Mountains
    M1 going north from Sydney is chevron art, kinda works outside peak hour
     
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  50. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    24,352
    Likes Received:
    19,386
    Location:
    Dubbo NSW
    Safe gap is a time, not a distance.
     
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